opinions on half dimes for my type set

ElyJ83 · July 7, 2012 12:43PM

I am currently trying to put together a 7070 type set. Money is an issue (recently married and first child) so I can not afford high grade US coins; I am trying to seek out VF to EFs for my collection. Recently I just purchased some half dimes and I would like to hear your opinions (if cleaned, grade, etc). I purchased them raw.

My guesses on grade are:

1853 - VF 30

1857 - F 12

1861 - EF 45

thanks

TomB · July 7, 2012 12:56PM

It is difficult to me to determine what your white balance is on the coins, but the 1861 looks like it might have been cleaned.

keyman64 · July 7, 2012 12:58PM

<< <i>It is difficult to me to determine what your white balance is on the coins, but the 1861 looks like it might have been cleaned. >>

I was thinking the same thing but for all of them. For their grades, they sure are free of any grime.

NewParadigm · July 7, 2012 12:59PM

The 1857 looks significantly better than F12

ElyJ83 · July 7, 2012 1:16PM

<< <i>

<< <i>It is difficult to me to determine what your white balance is on the coins, but the 1861 looks like it might have been cleaned. >>

I was thinking the same thing but for all of them. For their grades, they sure are free of any grime. >>

good observation with the no grime for their grade, probably a fresh cleaning before being sold (a newbie mistake on my part) What grade would you give the details on the 1857? Low 20s?

WestySteve · July 7, 2012 3:55PM

From the pictures on my tiny monitor, they almost looked like they were cast. How do the edges look? Anything unexplained that looks like a seam? Did you buy them all from the same source?

LanceNewmanOCC · July 7, 2012 4:14PM

.
nice affordable coins to put into a 7070

i've sold a lot of h10c to 7070/roll collectors

they are quite popular
.

BillJones · July 7, 2012 10:50PM

The general sharpness grade for all the coins is Choice VF to EF.

HOWEVER all of them have extensive hairlines from cleaning and the resulting unnatural color. If these coins were to submitted to a reliable third party grader they end up in "genuine" holders or be net graded.

Here are two coins that illustrate my point.

At one time this 1838 half dime was a "filler" in my collection. Note the dull gray surfaces. The "color" that shows might have been from an attempt to re-tone it. This dull grayness is NOT an natural look.

This 1859 half dime is closer to the look you want for you type set. The surfaces do have some luster (Sorry I did not have strict EF example to show you.), and the surfaces don't have the large number of hairlines found on cleaned coins. I have not that this piece has been dipped at some point, but that is acceptable to most collectors.

BTW the reason have this is that it is a minor type with hollow areas inside the stars. The general shape of Ms. Liberty is also a little different, a little like a ship's bottom IMO. These dies where made by Anthony Paquet who was an assistant engraver at the mint. He designed some very nice medals, but he ran into trouble when he tried to make coin dies. The "Paquet reverse" 1861 double eagle was the most famous example.

ElyJ83 · July 7, 2012 11:13PM

thanks bill for the comment about the hairlines. How do these airline's come about when a Coin is cleaned? The coins were from the same person. What is a cast? Nothing looks different about the edges. I imagine this is what I get for getting them raw. In a way they suite my type set due to the detail, but I also do not want cleaned coins. I am debating if I should return now. The 1857 I paid $20, 1861 $40, and the 1853 $30. The person I got them from I always trusted, bummer!

BillJones · July 8, 2012 12:11AM

First of all, I think that the coins are genuine and not cast. You can put you mind at ease about that.

As to the other issues, the prices you paid are lower than one would expect to pay for nice, original coins in EF. Believe it or not, the Gray Sheet wholesales prices are on the mark or a little low for really nice, original, no problem mid 19th century half dimes in EF. Since you want Choice VF to EF coins, these prices are closer to what you can expect plus some margin for the dealer. Here are the wholesale type coin numbers.

1853 with arrows $45 to $50
1857 stars obverse $42 to $46
1861 legend obverse $32 to $35

The worst buy you made was the 1861 because that piece has been cleaned with lots of hairlines, and would have a wholesale value of no more than $16 or so. (And that price is generious.)

What causes these hairlines? They are made when a coin is cleaned with an abrasive like baking soda or even the eraser on a pencil. The worst tool of all is a wire brush which results in what collectors call "whizzing." All of these half dimes have been cleaned with an abrasive of some sort. Removing anything from the surface of a coin requires great care or damage will result.

Baley · July 8, 2012 2:51AM

IMO, those are great coins for a 7070 album, leave them in there for a few years and they will start to tone back to a more natural look

1853 VF details net Fine
1857 EF details net VF
1861 AU details net EF

at the prices you paid, you're allright, they have nice detail now and will look a lot better in 2022

BillJones · July 8, 2012 5:20AM

The trouble is that the hairlines a will never go away even after the toning covers them. They will always make the coins ungradeable.

My goal is to help the new collector recognize and avoid these types of problems in the future.

ElyJ83 · July 8, 2012 6:17AM

thanks bill, this thread has been very educational! The joys of learning. I will do my best next time to examine for hairlines, its very obvious now and I should not make this mistake again.

roadrunner · July 8, 2012 9:04AM

The first 2 coins have that overly dipped, baking sodaed, lightly scrubbed look to them. The 1861 is just heavily scrubbed leaving multiple wiped areas.
Even after those cleanings, the first 2 coins still show some luster....amazing. But give many years in an album, those might tone back a bit to dull the surfaces up.
It's time to visit a better mentor to prevent doing the same thing on much more expensive coins. You didn't get hurt too bad on these. These kinds of coins are sold
everyday by local shops for "problem-free" money (ie every day, collectors around the country are being taken). But you don't have to continue with that crowd if you
do a bit more diligence. And in many cases, this means avoiding your local shops. Most nearly everything they have in early type tends to be cleaned, scratched, corroded,
or played with. So it's no surprise that these 3 might look better than all the others they had. All those coins have more detail than the grade you assigned. But they also
have surfaces that are messed with that nets them down 1-2 grades. Determining orig surfaces on circ coins is not that hard. You'll be up to speed in no time. Try to look
for grey/brown/darkish/dirty seated coins with dirt in the devices. But stay away from blackish ones that may have seen a fire or greenish ones (corrosion). These 3 have that
too shiny silver/silver-grey look to them. And when the color is this even all across the coin, odds are they were helped along. Even on all orig light grey specimens the highpts
will either be lighter or darker than the rest of the coin. A uniform coloration is not the norm when you have a surface that wears unevenly. In the early 1970's my local dealer
sold me coins colored like this too. I thought I was getting a deal too.

opinions on half dimes for my type set

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