Are you a ...**STUPID**.... coin collector?
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, you read that right.
"STUPID COIN ...COLLECTOR..!!"
I see yet again someone who has inherited a collection and found this forum to ask questions on how to dispose of it.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/999679/help-with-an-inherited-collection#latest
And....predictably... there is a post advising to avoid coin dealers.
Well, let's put some responsibility on those (maybe some here) who CREATE the "bad" places to sell coins. 
Yes, these places are CREATED by those who collect coins but are too STUPID to leave something to guide future generations (or heirs) to ...at least... a modicum of PROTECTION from the hazards of life.
I'd hazard a guess that the same collector who has his collection "stolen" by predatory means ..still..has the damn brains to have a will and an insurance policy and maybe a stock account and usually some real estate.
(unless they are TOO stupid to even seek shelter from the elements of nature)
There exist great places to KEEP RECORDS of your collection.
I use and recommend "Collective Coin" https://collectivecoin.com/ as it's a site where you can keep a record of your collection with images, some notes and.....it has a place for PRIVATE notes !
In those private notes, you can list where you got it, maybe what YOU paid, even anyone who might have shown interest in it, and a weather report if so inclined.
The PRIVATE notes are password protected so you can show off your collection and no one will see them.
But an HEIR or an ATTORNEY could have the password and check to see what you may have entered there.
You can create databases or, as I did in the beginning of my collecting....at the VERY least ...a damn little NOTEBOOK !!
Geez, it's SIMPLE! AND.... it protects your collection just as much as any slab or sticker. 
Okay, this could ramble on for pages.
I'm sick to death of the stupid posts about how ALL coin dealers are crooks who will cheat you.
Where did you get YOUR coins? Did you seek out your dealers from a police blotter of felons?
What I'm saying in this far too long post is that
IT IS ...YOUR...RESPONSIBILITY AS A ...COLLECTOR... TO CARE FOR YOUR COINS BY BEING A.... LITTLE BIT ...SMART!
Just a BIT will literally do.
But lay off the stupid warnings about coin dealers.
YOU ....as the collector... have a responsibility to do YOUR job as a custodian of your own damn estate and everything in it.
Comments
People just having a conversation and asking questions etc IMO they are not stupid
although I agree with the part to not generalize all coin dealer as sharks 
You're misreading my ...."novel"
NOWHERE do I say or insinuate that the heir is the stupid one.
I'll simplify: It is the COLLECTOR'S job to keep his coins from being "stolen" by taking some responsiblity.
It is OK to ask questions here so the rant above is not directed at the person who was left the collection. It is directed to the former owner (dead) and the ignorant poster who advised the present owner to avoid coin dealers.
Nice rant.
Wasn't too clear on where you were going with this until the last couple of sentences.
Lucky for me that I'll be around for ever so none of this applies.
btw, I cant keep up with your icon changes....
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
To the OP - I can understand your position and thanks for putting it on paper. I'll bet you feel much better after doing so.
In my case, I have explicit instructions on what to do with my collection. Some series go to certain DEALERS (imagine that) for sale or auction. Others go to auction houses or other on line venues that require little effort from my heirs.
Lastly, there are spreadsheets with the collection and in my personal papers that detail cert numbers, cost, date, and current market value. Other links provided for pricing info as well.
My system is far from perfect, but it gives the heirs a fighting chance at getting fair value for the collection and it allows dealers and on line venues to get a shot at the business.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
oh , now I understand the post, yes the collector should tell their heirs what to do with the collection.
My family knows to sell my coins one at a time with great photos, photos provided by me.
I did give them instructions that they could call ONE dealer who may give them a fair offer on the whole lot.
What will really help them is that fact that I sold all of my lesser coins so they do not have to deal with them. I also had all my raw high-end errors certified so now the coins are much more marketable with the error on the label.
I also get tired of all the "dealers are crooks" posts. Because I'm sure that all the BST shoppers here are looking to pay full retail for everything. And what of all my lovely customers on eBay who offer me $14 each for circ Morgans or 9x face for 90% silver. I could call them crooks, although "sub-wholesaler" might be the nicer term.
I would love to sell collector to collector for any board members who want to pay 100% of catalogue for ANYTHING....
I also do not understand why paying GC as much as 20% to sell your widgets is preferable to letting a dealer (crooks) make 15-20% or paying eBay (fleabay, feebay, etc.) 10-13%.
Yes that poster left out "some" dealers not all. If you are out looking you know that some are and a lot are not or yes you are a stupid coin collector if you don't know that.
Hoard the keys.
My wife tells me I'm "stupid" when she finds out how much I spend on coins. Does that count?
I have bought from many members here but never from a dealer outright. Now maybe the members here, are dealers, that I do not know but I have enjoyed the opportunity to buy from the members here. Have some of the items turned out to be not as first thought after the grader (PCGS) was complete. Yes but I am happy with every purchase or I would not of done them. And it is totally Subjective by the grader. Did I pay more maybe but its all relative to when I sell. Have I sold any NO. Why cause I buy to keep. Am I happy with what I have bought yes. NO COMPLAINTS. Thank you I am a big boy and what I buy I buy cause I can afford it. If you complain thats up to you I wont judge you.
What am I trying to say is Thank You Seller's out there! To everybody have a great safe Memorial Day and thank you to all who is or have served.
I don't think they are all crooks, most are just trying to run a business but there are a few that give them a bad name. It's to bad CDN doesn't come out with a dealer reputably page.
It could also be based on a 1 to 70 scale too except the attributes/values would be based on feedback from dealers and collectors on things like, fairness, honesty, integrity, knowledge and maybe even friendliness and maturity/time in the business.
Yelp is your friend.
Good luck with that! I would hate to cover the legal fees defending against all the dealers that were snuffed in the ratings!
Good post and good points. Even something as simple as bullion isn't simple. A rare Engelhard bar is worth much more than an Apmex bar. ASE's bring more than generic silver rounds. Keep good records and have a long talk with your heirs. You have invested in coins so invest a little more into tpgs when a coin warrants it. Yesterday's post on the inherited coins is enlightening. Imagine the difficulties if those coins were raw, and there are good dealers. I like the ones I use, but have fired some. Good judgement is helpful. Repeating mistakes is stupid.
Despite the potentially high value of a coin collection, for many its a hobby in their "man cave". A space to oneself for a while and not really shared with many others. So when the collector passes, the heir(s) may know there's a coin collection but it was just "his thing" and now they are left wandering in the wilderness on what to do with it.
As far as the collector was concerned, it served him during his lifetime. Its not a good excuse, but I think this is what the story of the "Stupid" collector quite often is.
That said, heirs should not be stupid either. There are so many resources on the 'net to explore before rushing to sell.
Stupid? I don’t like that term. But I will say this. We all started out as rookies.
So if this constitutes stupid have at it.
Problem is the heir walks into 9 out of 10 coin shops, tells the dealer they just inherited this collection and doesn't know anything about coins the dealer is going to offer 10, 20 maybe 50% of what their worth. Paying 10-13% to ebay after realizing full retail is the no brainer in this situation. No doubt the OP probably wishes the unknowing heir walks into his shop. Watched it happen a hundred times.
I will completely agree that a collector should leave instructions for those they are planning to leave the collection to. Certainly saves the heir a lot of heartache and a lot of $$$.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
I haven't seen a majority of posts stating that 'ALL dealers are crooks', but I have seen some really good posts pointing out that many dealers are not worthy of our business.
I like it when people share this information since I'd like to see these bad dealers go away and better dealers flourish.
I wish my OP had been read slowly and carefully.
...there may be a very few “real” crooks in numismatics throughout history...but any dealer who rips people off or treats customers like potential victims aren’t “real” crooks IMO, but rather cowards who understand there are very few repercussions for doing so...Coin dealers that is...there are so many “dealers” of other things that understand the potential setback that comes with this type of behavior. I can’t remember ever hearing of a coin dealer who got their teeth knocked out or hooked up to a car battery for ripping people off...but it happens to people all the time who act this way in the streets. The only thing that’s really parallel is that a good reputation is critical, and with the internet, good luck ripping people off for anything withought dragging your name through the mud
...it also sucks selling stuff on eBay, and I couldn’t agree more that collectors should have their collections “ready” for their heirs when the time comes. Also, there are plenty of fine outlets and trusted dealers that can help in this situation, and it helps for the heirs to be pointed in the right direction and what better way to comfort your heirs than leave them your personal references for people you trusted yourself with your collection? That all probably read wrong but I don’t have the time to fix it right now so bottom line is coin dealers aren’t crooks man
As far as keeping records..........the PCGS inventory is the perfect place for this.
Let's see if I can CLEAR UP THE CONCEPT
I am saying that COLLECTORS are STUPID if they don't record the particulars of their collections so they can be disposed of ..INTELLIGENTLY.... WHEN THEY DIE!!!
That's it!
Dishonesty thrives on ignorance.
Don't be ignorant !
If you want your coin collection to be treated ...badly... when you die, then don't keep records and don't let anyone know anything about the collection.
If you want ...or care... your collection to be an actual BENEFIT to your heirs.. then keep records and let your family know where the records are.
That's the entire point of this thread.
I'm not so stupid as to post my holdings to a website I know nothing about, have no control of, and cannot confirm its security. This includes registry sets. No one needs to know what I hold, but my heirs know where to look to find out.
Notwithstanding your all caps, !!!!!, and bold font - I totally agree.
Any collector with a collection in five figures and up should have a detailed listing and guidance document for liquidation (trusted dealers, venues, dealer specialists). Help yourself and your heirs.
Interesting !!!
This is a good OP by @topstuf, reading comprehension by the general masses notwithstanding.
My wife is unaware of how expensive my collection really is (to avoid marital discord), but she knows it is substantial. And she has the contact info of a close friend who is also a p/t dealer who knows a lot about my collection. And she has full access to our SDB’s and has even patiently feigned interest while I showed her my newps and what’s special about them, etc.
Her father also enjoys stamps so she is not unaware of the value of collectibles. She and I went to the big stamp show at the Javits CC in NYC in 2016, and she looked over the prices for nice EF original Penny Black specimens for her father with me. (OT, but she also took a picture of me with an Inverted Jenny that sold at the associated auction — quite a treat for me to see that stamp!)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Then don't take it to a coin dealer. Problem solved.
The poster your referenced from the original inheritance thread has a good head on his/her shoulders. I have faith they will go the right route and not be scammed by the snakes in the grass.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Good points. Similar situation in our house.
My wife shows little interest and doesn't ask about the price of newps.
She does like it when I tell her about a new Charlotte gold piece (we now live in NC) or some historical event than happened the same year when I pick up a new Capped Bust Half.
She has her hobbies, and I have mine. Mine are just more expensive. And hers do not retain value. (This is OK with both of us.)
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
"Smart people" prefer paper to gold and silver. I guess I am stupid.
That about sums it up for me..................I need to make some changes
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I hide nothing from my wife.
She now very much likes that I collect(ed) coins as I turned it into a business.
I usually show her my new expensive purchases as they are cool looking, and she appreciates the eye appeal of the pieces as we are both into art. She fully knows the value and will do just fine.
Oh, look, you're down to 90% of dealers are crooks. I've got news for you, in my town 4 out of 5 dealers would treat them correctly. The only one who wouldn't is a cash 4 gold guy so he shouldn't even be counted as a "coin dealer". Coin dealers, like most business, want referrals and satisfied customers. With sites like Yelp, you cannot mistreat a customer with impunity.
You bias against dealers is obvious. It is pointless to have any discourse on the matter.
Wow so many different ways this has gone...my two cents:
OP is right in that someone in the family should know you collect coins and have an idea of how to estimate/learn the value and possible avenues to sell...for me, it’s my daughter...best not to,have the wife know the value of each coin acquisition
Not all coin dealers are crooks, however if you go into a coin shop , once to sell the coins and clearly have no intention of doing future business, you will likely get an offer, but probably not the best offer. If you have done research or have some knowledge, or go with someone that has a relationship with the shop, you will likely get a reasonable offer.
For me, although I like raw coins and now feel somewhat comfortable buying them, my expensive purchases are either slabbed or I get them slabbed, one of the reasons...to make it easy for my daughter to learn about the value, in case she ever needs to,sell them...internet has tons of info on graded coins and easy to have dealers give you a price...
@topstuf ....Well, while I understand your OP... and totally agree with you... You must understand the phenomenon of social media.... If it can be twisted, it will be....Yes, many misinterpret as well, however, it is a willing misinterpretation, since clarification could easily be obtained. As they say 'No good deed goes unpunished.'....Thanks for your efforts, your intentions were honorable. Cheers, RickO
I tried to find a good dealer, once.
Try finding a good attorney.
Actually Gluggo @Gluggo you have bought from me several times and I am a dealer. Our several pleasant transactions (and some interesting online chats) have all involved scarce or rare numismatic books and catalogs rather than coins, but that is strictly a case of acquisitiveness meeting inventory.
I will leave it to others who have dealt with me to judge my reputation but I hate being painted with the "all dealers are crooks" brush strokes. And I will say, the one dealer locally here besides me who owns a brick and mortar is a fine fellow, completely ethical in every transaction I have had with him, which includes dozens going back 30 years.
And thus endeth my tale.
Kind regards,
George
Any dealer with a brain will treat you right whether you are selling a one off estate or are a regular customer. Reputation is EVERYTHING.
Local dealer friend of mine once had a customer come in with an inheritance. He lived 5 hours away by car. He had family in the area and no coin store in the small town he lived in so he brought the coins up for an offer. My friend treated him right, bought the coins for around $20,000 and the guy went away happy. BECAUSE HE WAS HAPPY AND STAYED HAPPY, a couple of years later, he recommended my friend to his brother who had the other half of the estate. Turns out, the brother had the better half of the estate and got nearly $40,000 from my friend.
Are there people that will take advantage? Yes. And, guess what, some of YOU are those people. When you go into a coin store and see a rare variety, do you tell the shop owner? If someone listed a coin on BST that was already cheap, how many of you would STILL counter? How often do you make offers below ask to dealers on eBay?
Frankly, it is EASIER FOR A COLLECTOR to rip you off than a dealer. A dealer needs to stay in business, he needs good yelp reviews, he needs a good BBB track record, he need referrals, he wants repeat business. A collector can rip you off with impunity - how do you file a Better Business complaint against a collector? You can't give a negative yelp review to a collector?
I once brought in some Gold and Silver Proof Eagles to sell to a Dealer in Dover, DE. I had a ballpark figure that I was going to get as my Brother had gotten a quote of what the Dealer was willing to pay. I had been accumulating these Coins over a 11 or 12 year period just because of my click addiction to the US Mint Website.
When I discovered I could get out of this hoard for way over melt, I jumped. Well I handed over Gold and Silver and the Guy tells his Helper to count em. He tabulates the figures and when I see the total it's about $3,000 below what it should have been. I ask to see his math sheet and quickly find he has shorted me about 1.5 ooz of Gold and about 40 oz of Silver.
The quick explanation - the helper has miscounted ! My first impulse was to walk but the offer , per oz ,was too good to walk away from. Well, the Guy doesn't have around $11,000 handy so he needs to first sell my stuff then pay me later. With great reservations I agree.
About a week later, I'm back in town and I go pick up my Money with no problems. Whew. Close one.
Luckily this Guy has supposedly retired. As we used to say in the 1st Batt.... paybacks a MF. It's good I've never had to put that philosophy into practice..... yet.
Like they used to say on the X - Files. TRUST NO ONE.
Offered ask you say? That would shock me! More times than not the offers I get on ebay are 25-50% of bid or 20% back of melt!
There is nothing stupid about warning others of the unscrupulous.
Ignorance should not be a justification for dishonesty.
LOL. Yes, I get those also. I also block those people immediately. I'm busy enough without having to field borderline criminal offers. But, of course, they are "intelligent collectors" and will brag about every score on some message board. But if a dealer made the same offer to someone over the counter, the dealer would be labeled a criminal.