Options
Sotheby's Morgan Dollar Results
ricardouno
Posts: 238 ✭✭
The prices realised in this recently concluded auction seem high. Almost all results were considerably above estimates.
Does this reflect a strengthening of the Morgan Dollar market?
Thanks for any insight or opinions.
0
Comments
I don't think the Sotheby's sale is a reflection on the Morgan dollar market in general -- more a reflection on the strength of great, fresh offerings at auction.
The Stone coins were super-fresh, and off the market for a long time and most were grade rarities, meaning that buyers felt they had to make their move for the coins they wanted at this sale. This is typical when great collections come on the market. The results were very good and fell in line with our (high) expectations for this sale here at CDN.
If you are looking for greater meaning in the results of this sale, I'd say that the market continues to see top-end coins perform very well at auction, period. Morgans, 3-cent silver, early gold, etc. If it's fresh and rare, there seem to be plenty of deep-pocketed customers looking to acquire. This is not always the case, and it's nice to see strong activity at the top end of the market.
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Thanks so much for your valued insight .
Do you have a link to the sale?
Many people on this forum thought the estimates were high across the board on most of the offerings! What ended up happening was just the opposite. It was not unusual to see coins go for 2 to 3 times the high estimate in this sale. Fresh to the market quality coins ruled the day
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2018/historic-coins-and-medals-n09975.html
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Very high results, I'm curious who the main buyers were, dealers or collectors? Were they expecting these would be good investments or just quality acquisitions by hobbyists?
Lots of coins in old holders and most appear to be undergraded by today's standards
Commems and Early Type
Wow, some really did overpay for some nice but common stuff.
Now those are some nice Morgans. I will have to pull mine out and take a look see again.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Which coins did you think were overpaid for?
If they crack, clean, and send back in, there will not be enough tissues to dry the tears. Some coins looked over-graded by today's standards. Everyone saying this old canned response is clearly not submitting.
I agree, there are indeed coins in old holders that are in tombs, totally maxed out. OGHs are not always lock upgrades.
My YouTube Channel
Thanks for the link. Those are strong results across the board! Some of the estimates were low, so that explains part of it, but I don’t understand a lot of the high prices for the common coins, many of which did not look like upgrade candidates to me (though some certainly did).
Anyone who thought those estimates were high-does NOT know the dollar market. AS JF pretty much said, you can't beat a nice fresh "old time" set.
I was a major player at the sale. My ONLY claim to fame-I was the under bidder on the 84S. The winning bidder caught me on an increment. I also paid $35,000.00 hammer for the 1868 MS66 3CS gold bean. This coin was the second best one I have ever seen.
The 97O-if that coin does not MS67, its is still worth what the was paid for it. MONSTER coin. You can't bottom feed when coins that never ever come up for sale are finally offered for sale and are nice.
Images are deceiving. Some of the coins just needed a dip. Only one or two were not so great and they obviously were not CAC'd
Coins in old holders that were put away 25 years ago garner a LOT of interest when they come out of hiding. These coins sell for a premium whether they are obvious upgrades or not. When a Cleveland NGC 66 old holder suddenly becomes a PCGS 68 worth thousands of dollars, its rather obvious why there is interest in coins that were graded a few decades ago.
Commems and Early Type
I also paid $35,000.00 hammer for the 1868 MS66 3CS gold bean. This coin was the second best one I have ever seen.
Hey Laura:
Was it a 66? (Auction says 65) If so, one of the few coins that sold somewhat reasonable.
I bought one of the other Gold 3CS myself.
Looks like more than one overpaid for drecks and widgets. Quite a few in there that certainly need the ole Tarn X.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
It was an MS65 gold cac. The MS67+ I placed years ago also came out of an old NGC holder. This coin was the second best I have ever seen
Do the auction result prices include a buyer's fee? I tried looking at the website to see if they even charge one, but I came up empty.
It does. BP starts around 25% and declines over $100k, I think (on a per lot basis). @specialist can elaborate. It's a huge BP, to be sure.
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Fingers crossed for you. Some of the 3CS coins sold for slightly less than insane money. The hysteria started full throttle with the 1890 Half.
These are great! I love the variety of toning along with the blast white. Congrats to the new owners. When I read Bowers Morgan book..these are fantastic examples of some of the things he talks about with strike and quality. Most will forever be out of my price range but it is still nice to see them surface!
I also viewed the coins and bid by phone. I bought 8-12 lots, and agree that the prices were very strong. Most of the coins were fresh and undergraded by today's standards. As always, PCGS will determine who was "smart" and who was not as I expect many of these coins will be submitted to our hosts. There were also many collectors who bought several of the coins.
Usually, when a deal like this comes out, with a limited number of lots (less than 200), nothing falls through the cracks. This sale was no exception IMO.
...after I make my first 10 Mio...that 84s will be mine
The 1886 in ms67 certainly doesn't even look close to three grades better than the ms64 1886-O.
Me thinks overgraded 86, undergraded 86-o.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
As JF said, the buyers fee in the sale was obnoxious. It was 25% up to $300,000.00. $301,000.00-$3,000,000.00 20%, then 12.5% after words. This is all PER LOT!
Makes it hard to buy just for stock. In fact, I doubt ANY dealer in the room was able to just buy for stock.
That fee messed me up. I had to decide take the risk and hope for a + or something, or will the price I pay end up the new market price? I still chased the coins I wanted-but go shut out anyway
For a sale like this, ALL the big guns come out. Nothing ever falls through the cracks.
To all the people sitting at home heckling how the coins look from images-you had to see them in person. If they weren't so nice and fresh, they would never have sold for what they did
Sale prices for fresh $250k+ coins don't reflect anything about the Morgan market except at the very top end.
25% juice makes me thirsty to start an auction company.
Very nice coins... and certainly the sale reflects that. The 25% BP is amazing... Cheers, RickO
I can't understand how the BP has anything to do with one's ability to compete, since everyone is charged the same fee and everyone can do the simple math required to calculate the total cost associated with any bid.
I know this has been discussed before on the forum and that some people with never grasp the concept. (Or "agree", if you insist.) But it's very strange to hear from a pro who doesn't get it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You’re assuming she read the terms of sale prior to the auction.