Curious what you think of my responses to this Canadian trying to avoid his taxes? Serious Question!
amwldcoin
Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Message from buyer after beating me down to what is probably a loss:
Hi, thanks for accepting my offer. I reside in Canada. When I tried to pay, I get "import charges" in addition to agreed price. Canadian customs never apply any duties on silver and gold coins. If you think you can remove this charges, I will proceed with payment, if not, I apologize, but Im going to ask you to cancel that deal.
My reply:
You know what! This is exactly why I like about what people think is our crazy president! If I bought this coin from you I would not have to pay any taxes! Fair trade is Fair trade! I will await your reply before I cancel the transaction. If you will not pay the taxes your country charges I will cancel the sale.
Best Regards,Darrell
Buyer's response:
Hey Darrell. I apologize for any inconvenience I caused, but I am not willing to pay so called "import charges". This program is a scam. Let me know if we can get around this, if not, again, my apologies.
My response:
I don't know how! I can not insure the coin without declaring the value! Believe it or not...my biggest loses have come from Canada the last few years! I'm about to go to ebay global shipping only for all my sales to Canada! Even a $10 sale! Your country is losing their reputation for a safe place to ship to in my opinion!
Best Regards,Darrell
MY Question! Is this guy telling the truth? Are Coins not taxed coming into Canada? I have not heard they were!
Comments
What beats all is I am shipping this coin through eBay's global shipping and as far as I know the import charges are clearly stated!
I don't know what price level you are working with here, but when I ship to Canada I use my private dealer insurance and it requires me to put an honest value on the USPS customs forms for shipping. Neither myself nor my clients have ever been hit with a tax or fee on any coin I have shipped to Canada. Perhaps the issue is coming up because you are using the ebay platform and ebay generated forms?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It wouldn't be that hard in 2018 for Canada or any other government for that matter to flag suspicious accounts for possible tax fraud. If you ship through ebay global, they do everything by the book. It shouldn't be that hard for people to buy in their country according to their own terms; once things go across national borders you have a change of jurisdiction.
Hi,Tom
The sale is $200. As far as I know there is a tax! Do you know if coins imported to Canada don't require import taxes?
Silver, Gold and Platinum coins & bars that are .999+ pure are GST (national sales tax) exempt in Canada. Most provinces that have provincial sales tax also share this exemption.
As far as I know, Ebay's Global Shipping Program does not have any form of exemption. It simply charges sales tax, brokerage fees and additional shipping charges based on the location/province of the buyer.
This is an 1821 Russian Rouble that is not .999! I take it that is not exempt?
Found this on page three of the following document.
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2013/01-99/ch97-2013-eng.pdf
9705.00.00 Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical,
mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological,
ethnographic or numismatic interest.
Free
I have always marked customs forms to Canada as "numismatic collectibles" and have never had a customer say they had to pay a duty. Edited to add the following.....Probably haven't shipped to Canada in a few years so things may be different now?
I have never used eBay Global Shipping.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
If this is true I will contact ebay in the morning! Thanks!
Can anyone else confirm this is true?
Since you asked.....
I think your responses were too much and could have just been the facts and a lot shorter.
If I were a buyer, getting that type of response, I probably wouldn't be that enamored with the seller.
Just say "Yes, I can" or "No, sorry, I don't see that as an option and it is a requirement for the insurance from the looks of it".
None of the political stuff or slamming on a country where the buyer lives.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Well! I am doing what I can to make our foreign buyers understand! And you would be surprised at how many agree!
Go back in your hole and don't help the cause!
You ask a question here and then get mad at an honest answer. Silly.
The last few coins I've shipped to Canada, I've used good old USPS. I've been paid through PayPal without a hitch. I print my shipping label and it generated a customs form. Whatever - if any - tax hoops the buyer must jump through are invisible to me.
I find myself being very factual in my responses to bidders and buyers on eBay. Often, if they reflected my true feelings, I'd have a lot of negatives, because, yes, my true nature is excessively cynical and malignantly sarcastic. Probably hard to believe, but there it is.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
You seem combative both on eBay and in your response here. I don’t understand the need for politics in your response or why all of your sentences end in exclamation marks. Best to keep it simple and straightforward. Also, if he is ok with canceling the sale and you stated you were taking a loss, just accept his offer and forget about it. Then there’s no need to worry about international shipping or taxes or anything else (except finding another buyer).
Mad...at an honest answer???? Not so! I guess you have been lucky! Every package I have sent to Canada that tracking doesn't confirm delivery has been claimed as item not received! Not that many(only the ones I paid for tracking that did not confirm) but the only I have had out of hundreds of overseas shipments in the last year! I tried the simple stamp as a letter a couple of times and of course item not received!
That's true if you don't want "Fair Trade!
Sounds mad to me. If you didn't mean it to be an angry response, maybe a little reflection on how you communicate would be useful.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I think I would have responded without getting political or using so many explanation marks. I would politely inform them I cannot get around the taxes, and just cancel the sale.
Actually, I had a similar exchange with a customer in the UK in the last couple of months. He asked for help in avoiding paying whatever duties/taxes/VAT was being charged. He claimed that he has had to pay as much as 30% of the declared value. He also indicated that other sellers had "helped".
I asked him how they had "helped" other than by committing a crime by providing inaccurate information on the customs form. I also asked for clarification on what kind of charge was being levied.
He was not sure on either count and sent me a link to Homeland Revenue. As far as I could tell, coins should be import duty exempt IF PROPERLY LABELED. But he told me that he thought I would know what the regulations were. I replied that I could not reasonably be expected to know what the tax situation was in 200 different countries and that was his responsibility.
He responded that he would keep a copy of the customs charges to show me on his most recent purchase.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Ok, here it goes:
fact is that customs is entitled to charge 5% GST ( federal tax)
However, there is a unwritten policy that it has to be worth their while to charge it ( time is expensive)
hence mailed items , usually under $ 400, sail right through. the shipment might get x-rayed and sniffed by a canine,, but who cares. If the shipper is honest and make a truthful not misleading declaration, there is normally not a problem. Customs has seen it all !! regardless how inventive in packaging and declaring you are.
Coin can be declared as metal tokens or collectibles . BUT you should never declare these as money or coins!
Fact is that every recipient in Canada is entitled by law to do their own customs clearing . If they chose to have an "agent" broker, said broker must have a power of attorney to act on the importers behalf.
NOW, fact is also that Fleecebay smartly invented Global shipping, marked by default in the shipping preferences, and contracted Pitney Bows with all the customs clearings for them. They are a broker. They take data from EB and produce paperwork which most the time is not required. However, it is all electronically transmitted to customs and of course, they will accept it, as Canadian law says they can. even if there is FREE- NO duty invoice. PB still wants to be paid! By the buyer, as per Fleece bay agreement.
Feebay claims it is all for the buyer and sellers convenience.
BS I say!!! a total rip off and absolutely not necessary.
there are sellers they use it because they ship within the US and are too lazy to write Canada on the address, but never had a return...... that is when both pay... read the small print... remember, PB wants to be paid... even for a return.
AND... Canada customs can require original documents... not copies. and again, guess who has those.... PB.
AND I know for sure that they do not have my PA on file!
Best is to stay away from any seller who is using Global shipping.
oh.. the best is yet to come:
if a seller is located in the USA, they will NOT see what GS is charging!!!!!!!!!!!! Shipping totally exorbitant and Import charges based on a % of the value determined at check out!
most of these sellers have NO idea!
I have no idea why you are combative and rude to me. I was polite to you and answered the question you posted. You didn't say "Everyone answer ONLY IF you agree with me". You said "Curious what you think of my responses to this Canadian trying to avoid his taxes? Serious Question!"
By telling me to "go back in my hole", you seem to be personally attacking me and violating forum rules. I hope you learn to handle your anger issues.
Too many times, forum members "ask" a question, but if they don't hear what they want to hear, they lash out at the person answering.
If something is wrong in your personal life, and that's why you lashed out, I wish you the best and hope things get better so your attitude can improve.
Have a good day
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
A few thoughts as someone who ships hundreds of packages out of the country each year:
1- As stated by others, Canada does have certain exemptions for duties, and if buyers request specific wording (that is true for the given item) to help the package get through customs, I'm happy to use it. My default is "numismatic collectibles." I don't think the coin you're selling falls under an exemption.
2- My general stance is that customs isn't my problem. That's clearly stated in my listing (using eBay's wording), and I will decline any request, no matter how many times it's made, to falsify anything on the customs form. I get that import taxes can be a pain, but it's not in my control.
3- I don't use the Global Shipping program, though I understand buyers pay customs duties up front with it. Exemption or not, it's possible that the buyer, in practice, wouldn't pay duties even if they are due on the package, but is now having to pay them because of how the eBay system is set up. I don't know enough about the program to say for sure. I suppose if the Global Shipping program means duties are paid 100% of the time, then odds are better for avoiding duties when a package is sent the "normal" way by a seller in terms of it being able to sneak under the radar. I suppose I sympathize with the buyer a little bit there. Perhaps just offer to ship directly to Canada, which means customs duties will be a function of whether his local office feels like collecting.
4- Your response is completely ridiculous and uncalled for. Even when I get annoyed by buyer requests (however dumb they may be), I just answer the email diplomatically and I'm done. I'm not out to teach the buyer a lesson about why their country sucks, and I'm certainly not about to go on a political rant in any direction. Your reply was irrelevant and could have easily opened up a can of worms that just isn't worth opening on eBay. The significant number of exclamation points also gave the messages an angry tone! It would have been very easy to get all of the important points across in a non-confrontational way. Finally, I've found Canada Post to be one of the best in the world.
So I guess I'm not the only one who thought his response to Boik inappropriate.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I would do whatever I could to help the buyer avoid the tax on his end because it would give me a thrill sticking it to the man as it were. I'd feel like a regular double naught spy .
I don't sell much overseas anymore but I had a regular form letter I would use that said something to the effect that the coroner had found this coin in your deceased gradpa's personal effects and I know it was his dying wish that you have it. What customs agent would fail to tear up at such a touching story ?
Also , shame on you OP for participating in the ebay global shipping program , a nigerian prince would be green with envy at the scam they have concocted with that .
I actually ran into the same issue with classic automotive parts that are over 50 years old. They are exempt from the import charges but the Global Shipping System adds them on.
After reviewing it with ebay, we found the solution, but since I do not have an exclamation mark on my keyboard and live in a hole, I don't think there is a way to communicate how to legitimately tell you how to fix your error.
here I will loan you a few
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A one key period is also a lot easier for me to type than a two key [shift + ! ] exclamation point.
I hope everything works out for the best.
And I hope everyone here has a great day.
And now for a coin pic
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I have to disagree with you here. Other than illegally avoiding the countries taxes it is much cheaper to ship through the ebay global shipping program if you need insurance! I sold $1,000 of rare shells to a buyer in Russia. The only way I could get insurance myself was to ship global express! It would cost me almost $200 to ship that way and the buyer would still owe the taxes(Except probably not as he was buying for a museum). The buyer was charged $86 through the global shipping program!
I apologize if you felt I was rude. By saying go back in to your hole I meant it akin to turning a blind eye to the unfair trade deal ebayer sellers have with almost every other country. In fact I believe Australia is the only country I have shipped to that does not impose a serious import tax!
my post is in reference to coins and numismatic items! Nothing else.
Granted, there may be a place and times to use GS for the insurance possibilities and for items other than numismatics..
But, does Ebay / Paypal not cover that?
This is funny if it turns out to be and very fishy! I was trying to see how much I could ship and insure if I didn't go through the Global Shipping program. It turns out his registered ebay address is in Niagra Falls,NY! So I sent him an invoice and messaged him I ship free in the US. We will see if he pays. My scammer alarm is going off.
Yes, in the beginning the Global Shipping program would not cover coins. I believe they started a couple of years ago. That is when I started using Global shipping for more expensive items. I do not ship anything over $100 if I am unable to get insurance.
Correct. It is not .999 fine silver/gold/platinum, so it would be subject to sales tax.
Interesting thread, aside from the squabbling.
My impression was always that eBay's Global Shipping was horrendously expensive but the example given that shows insurance being cheaper was very interesting.
I deal in mostly lower cost items, so I don't think it is beneficial for me. I recall one UK seller who would only ship through eBay and the shipping was more than the purchase price. Needless to say he lost the bid/sale.
Fair trade? That's an argument with ebay, not an international incident.
Unfair is when Kim Jong Un calls out the "fire and fury" bluff.
Buy gold the day before the meeting.
Short your SPDR and buy the VIX.
Short American steel fabricators and Canadian aircraft manufacturers.
Fair trade seems a bit self-referential for your problem.
This crappy customer was a bargain in learning how to combat your own possibly less-than-efficient use of "the system".
Your own ignorance (which I find acceptable) can cost you money (which I find moral) and now you have a way to better serve your customers (and yourself).
But fair trade?
Many Canadians who live near the border have an address in the US so they can get mail without having to pay import duties. And considering 90% of the Canadian population lives within 30 miles of the US border...
I got a message from the seller and he told me he doesn't go there any more. What I want to know now is how was he able to try and ship it to his Canadian address which is not his registered ebay address?
I don't know what your definition of fair is! Do you think it's fair US buyers can by from other countries and pay no tax while if those other countries buy from us they have to pay a sometimes outrageous tax?
With 90% of them so close to the border are we sure they aren't just preparing to invade the US?
If I was a Canadian I would sure as heck have a US mailbox and a US bank account. (And, if I as an American lived close to the border I would probably have a Canadian bank account and mailbox, eh?).
The world-wide numismatic industry is not affected by geo-politics to the degree you suggest.
Taxes and tariffs are not the same.
Grow up and figure it into the cost of doing business. That's why it's called work
Get clever and work your way around it. Others here have offered partial solutions. That's called working smart
Or keep whining and go into politics
Heritage customer facing sales-tax issues in NJ? Multiple solutions not including a trade war with Texas
A buyer can input any address they want to use. Heck, I have multiple shipping addresses in my account based on what I'm receiving and where I want it to go.
We have different governments, and they provide different benefits and pay for them in different ways. I'm not commenting on who is right, but the reason we don't pay import duties is because our government funds itself differently.
I live in Washington, which has no income tax, but high sales tax. Our southern border is with Oregon, where there is no sales tax, but there is income tax. Assuming WA residents follow the law and pay usage tax if they buy something from Oregon, is it unfair that WA residents pay more for the item? Is it unfair that OR residents pay less, but also pay an income tax? You're comparing apples and oranges.
I just bought 4 Proofs all foreign and had to pay sales tax. Taxes are applied according to law. So are duties. I would say that if you try to skirt the rules, it can come back to bite you. Is the one sale worth all that.
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If a seller spouted off with some political crap like you did especially when you were wrongly charging a tax that was not supposed to be charged you certainly would be receiving a negative feedback from me. That's your customer and they asked a simple question then you went off on some tangent for no reason. Geeze no wonder the majority of the world thinks America is a bunch of arrogant a-holes.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Sorry @asheland
You missed winning by a split second..the 'give-a-way' ended at 09:31:01
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Excuse me? The coin is taxable under his country's laws and he was fully aware of the taxes and shipping costs before he made his 3rd offer on the coin!. I actually accepted an offer lower than I really wanted to because I understood he would be paying taxes!
I'd be pissed if I got jerked around like this too. But an unfair retail customer is not a fair trade issue.
You want to bloviate about an international geo-political situation resonating down to your business level?
E-commerce giveth and also taketh away.
And to the guy on this thread that won't tolerate return postage because his coins are "graded right". Vershtein "schmuck"?
It was your antagonistic reponse sprinkled with politics and a general lack of understanding of what fair trade is that would have put me over the edge. Being he is a Canadian (generally being nice) he was cordial in his response. I would have told you to pound sand and assumed you were a crack pot
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@amwldcoin
I like your posts. They are always entertaining.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
This thread is a good case study in being careful with what one wishes for...
The OP comes on here asking for feedback over an issue, but instead presents himself less like a professional than he purports to be. I hope he realizes that he has customers and potential customers here.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com