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GEM PROOF Libertas .....What exactly the assigned grade is or is it a non conclusive but GEM grade?
Paradisefound
Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
Kindly calling @Cardinal & @Justcommeman to enlighten me as to what GEM PROOF really mean on this Libertas 
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Just purchased another re-strike LISTED AS 2014 but IMO IT IS 2004 base on the metal content and COA comparison to my 1st one.
.999 2004 vs .950 2014 silver content
The 1st one
2nd...(enroute)
Thank you all in advance for your insight
Looks superb "in the holder", but I almost always prefer the original paperwork and the coin directly connected.
In this specific instance, I possibly speak from intuitive wisdom that has momentarily overcome my actual factual ignorance.
so....what the GEM PROOF means? Grade of >67?
Antique grading "term of art" from a generation that was unable to further quantify above 65 except as "effin' gem".
Minimally a 67 from here, but superb, while splendiferously hyperbolic, is not as impactful to the hoi polloi as " GEM", and "effin' gem" lacks gravitas.
GEM = 65 or better.
The year of manufacture/metal content issue seems to suggest a potential cherry-pick on your part.
While the Forum has lately been overly condoning in its treatment of abuse, "You Suck" is a big compliment around here
Back when the 5oz ATB's came out the first, and only way at least for my order, was to get all 5, slabbed. The grade was something like what you see on that Libertas. I remember it was a way to get them slabbed by the approved dealers at a lower cost because there was no actual grade number assigned. It could still be an option to dealers.
edited to add:
Here is a link to what I got as best as I can remember. They are all packed away so hard to dig out.
https://ebay.com/itm/2010-AMERICA-THE-BEAUTIFUL-5-COIN-SET-5-OZ-SILVER-PCGS-FIRST-STRIKE-CHOICE-BU/361688303454?hash=item54364d875e:g:L7cAAOSwU-pXsjsC
Is that mean GEM and not "AU detail" but decide on the grade yourself?
@Kudbegud
"Gem Proof DCAM" means the piece was struck as a Proof, and demonstrates Deep Cameo contrast, such that it should grade at least PR65DCAM. When these came out, a large portion of the production was encapsulated by PCGS, and labeled as you see above. There are others that have been awarded specific numeric grades from PCGS, ranging from PR66DCAM to PR69DCAM:
Please be careful in handling these specific restrikes, as MANY of them have developed distracting milk spots on their surfaces after their original capsules were opened.
Sorry to see you purchased what was labeled as a 2014 restrike, when it actually was the 2004 restrike! The silver restrikes issued in 2014 are all 5oz restrikes, with a 50mm diameter. In 2015, silver restrikes were issued at a 1oz size:
Would a single mild spot lower the would be grade considerably?
You are right and I don't mind 2004 since I already have 2014 5oz Libertas restrike
@cardinal
This is my 5oz 2014
The toning above the cap? To some it might. Not a deal breaker for me.
I don't believe that is toning, but a reflection of something else. All of the 2014 5oz restrikes went directly from the Paris Mint to NGC for encapsulation, so there shouldn't have been enough time for any toning to develop.
Glad you got one of those! They are quite impressive!
None of the 2014 restrikes have been graded by PCGS as PR70DCAM. I have seen some graded by PCGS as PR69DCAM that have one or two minute spots, so I don't think a single mild spot would affect the grade.
@cardinal said: "I don't believe that is toning, but a reflection of something else."
I disagree, I believe it is toning. If the OP takes two more images with the coin n a different orientation to the light we'll know for sure, one way or the other.
My apology for the confusion; the photo on the top is sample photo and there is no coin with milk spot in this thread
@Insider2 said:
"Gem" was used as a superlative for just about any uncirculated grade. Gem BU, Gem MS63, Gem Unc. In terms of a Proof coin in a PCGS holder, Gem means "pretty nice".
I knew it would happen.
"""Kindly calling @Cardinal & @Justcommeman to enlighten me as to what GEM PROOF really mean on this Libertas """
Oo, Oo, pick me, DANGIT!!!...I know some answers. Oh well.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Personally I prefer that the tpgs put a number on the holder, not just gem proof, or bu.
Ah, but it's cheaper to just say Gem BU and not pay for a number designation. For some, it's all bottom line. I too want an actual number grade and not a loosely thrown around puff term from the mid 60's. It was sell it as Gem BU and buy it back as AU.
So ya get what ya pay for. I want a number grade too.
I have one of those and 2-3 raw ones. I don’t mind the Gem Proof DCAM designation.
Matter of fact I like it. IMO these really don’t have to be slabbed or graded to appreciate them
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I've always looked at the Gem Proof DCAM designation as pretty such as struck and the way they left the mint and made there way into PCGS hands
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
They are certainly beautiful coins.... You are building quite a collection of gold and silver coins. Cheers, RickO
Okay, @Paradisefound located the original image from an eBay offering. Here is the photo that was posted before:
The seller provided a close-up photo taken at a different angle. I think we can both agree there is no toning, just more reflections of something above the slab:
Here's the link to the eBay auction:
https://ebay.com/itm/2014-5-Oz-Silver-Libertas-Americana-Restruck-Monnaie-De-Paris-PF-70-Ultra-High/382465756735?hash=item590cbc4e3f:g:7woAAOSw3GtZx8SM
It looks like the reflection from some kind of decorative lighting fixture on the ceiling. I’m guessing the North Shore on Long Island
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Gem usually mean less then 69 but no obvious looking distractions.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I bid on that one
Them is purdy enuff to want.
Iffen they wuz ....coins.
snif
I try and try and can NOT find a desire for medals.
And they ARE purdy.
Gem is a 65...63 is choice 64 near gem et cetera
You don't need to find a desire for all medals....but how can you resist owning The Medal, that was the progenitor of America's earliest coinage designs???
Oh, it's tough. But I'm doing it.
Sorry ACop I sniped you down to the very base
Thank you both for your insight....I am humbly following you in my baby steps. Your study and collections have inspired me
and good luck Mark for your China assignment
@cardinal @justcommeman
Gold tooth grills....
(PS: The illustrated medals are reproductions (aka "reissues") and not restrikes.
Yet another example of how some people are no longer capable of collecting Numismatica, but only Plastica!
Don’t care if the restrikes are numerically graded or not. So many have been mishandled. I prefer them in plastic but if no one graded them I would have just as many. One of the restrikes I have ( from JK) was actually in the Dupre family holdings. They are just plain cool
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I was way back at 177 so there was another sniper w you.
Mark, I agree completely! The very first medal that PCGS graded was my Silver Libertas Americana medal Ex: Harry Bass Collection. I brought that to a Long Beach Show years ago, for one of David Hall's "Meet the Expert" sessions.
He looked at it, said he just loved that medal, and then he handed it to one of the PCGS employees onsite, and instructed them to have it graded on a complimentary basis!!
The grades really do not matter...but the "Plastica!" protects the medal! Years ago, when Expos Unlimited was still conducting the Santa Clara Show, I witnessed a coin dealer dropping a PCGS-graded MS66 1915-S $50 Pan-Pac Octagonal onto the cement floor. The fall and impact shattered the holder, but the coin itself was unharmed. Now, what would have happened to that $50 Pan-Pac if it was dropped in the raw "Numismatica"??????
Yes, they are reproductions, but some of them are actually restrikes of the prior reissues!!
Poor example. I have nothing against the use of holders. I have used KoinTains and Capital Plastic holders and many other types of holders, but I never let them tell me whether or not I could enjoy the contents of the holder!!!
So , you’re saying the number on a TPG label tells you that you cannot enjoy the contents?
KoinTains open if dropped, and custom Capital Plastic holders take a very long time to to get delivered, and can cost more than PGCS charges for grading and holdering.
Any TPG holder can be opened if desired. Even the $10M 1794 Dollar has been taken out of its holder on several occasions.
Is the OP not unhappy because there is no security blanket, i.e. numerical grade, on the holder?
She is a new collector. I just think she wanted to know what the designation meant. She should ask. It was logical question. I believe she may have bought some raw. Most of mine have been bought raw . A few were unearthed when JK finally decided to clean his office in between Pogue cataloging. Now that he is running for political office I hope he does another deep dive Spring cleaning.
I have raw Libertas Restrike medals I can fondle. But most are in PCGS holders which I find to be very nice and I like the uniformity. Most off I like the protection. I also hope to put them along side Martins Registry set soon. Not for ego but for educational purposes. There is a lot to like and study on the subject matter
The other thing to remember is many of us never collected coins during the pre slab era. We missed out on the age of innocence ( even though there was plenty of shady activity). We only know what we were exposed to and might just have a different perspective and POV
Love you Tom
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
and I am with all....mostly raw in Libertas series
I wondered if any submitter can request TPG to assign this "VAGUE" GEM PROOF if and when it merits only....at least PR 65?
IMHO this GEM PROOF idea is purely market driven; to commands better price VS PR65 as an example?
What do these sell for in the PCGS slabs Gem DCAM ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.