Die Polish Lines or Hairlines from Cleaning?
slider23
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I can see some raised lines that look like die polish lines, but not like the PCGS image showing lines through out the coin on both sides that look much like cleaning hairlines. The coin was graded MS61 by PCGS.
The following photo was taken by PCGS:
My photos that shows what the coin looks like in hand:
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Comments
if the lines are raised and appear to "stop and go under" the devices, stars and lettering then it is a good chance they are die polish.
From what I see, die polish lines.
cool
bob
what @keets said
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I agree. Definitely die polish lines.
Pete
Nice dollar!
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Appears to be die polish lines.... more magnification and an angle shot would confirm it.... Cheers, RickO
There is a reason they give that MS61.
The reason is the coin has continuous hairlines from mishandling that are INTO its surface. Die polish rarely "flashes" like that.
These photos were taken at 10X magnification.
Looks like both are present, although hairlines seem to be the majority.
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Not die polish lines.
Those are light circulation/wipe marks. Acceptable on gold due to it's softness.
Almost looks like a bite mark under the 1. That's a myth isn't it? Try lighting it from 1 side from a very low angle and the shadows will tell a lot.
That looks like a coffin coin...no one will break that out of an MS61 holder in search of an upgrade.
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Might have DPLs but has plenty of hairlines too. Usually on a small coin the DPLs will all be oriented in one direction. Hairlines from a wipe can be too, but usually not. A loupe will tell you immediately. Raised = DPL, incuse = wipe.
AFAIK, "Wipe" is a term used for a severe "patch" of hairlines usually enough to actually "flash out" as soon as the coin is moved into a particular orientation to the light. This coin does not qualify.
die polish generally means an abrasive is used on the die to remove something.
hairlines typically refer to the already struck coin being wiped with a cloth or something soft.
there is a third feature I have noticed on medals and exhibited in threads which I call "die wiping" for lack of a better term. they appear to be hairlines but are so faint that it is nearly impossible to discern whether they are raised or incuse. they would be present if a press operator stopped the press to remove some debris from the die surface and only wiped lightly with a cloth. if they are only scattered they aren't a problem, if they are abundant like this they become a distraction. I say this based on what I have seen and to point out that the "hairlines" shown above stop at the design elements and continue on the other side.
@keets said: "...hairlines typically refer to the already struck coin being wiped with a cloth or something soft."
Not exactly. You can rub a soft CLEAN cloth over a MS coin and you will not cause any HLNS unless you really put unusual pressure while trying to prove it can happen. ** Pristine cotton fibers don't hurt coins - trapped debris particles do.**
and "...there is a third feature I have noticed on medals and exhibited in threads which I call "die wiping" for lack of a better term. they appear to be hairlines but are so faint that it is nearly impossible to discern whether they are raised or incuse. they would be present if a press operator stopped the press to remove some debris from the die surface and only wiped lightly with a cloth. [Interesting observation. However, wiping a die with a rag will not cause hairlines on an object struck by that die. AFAIK, authenticators do not call microscopic raised lines on a coin "hairlines."] if they are only scattered they aren't a problem, if they are abundant like this they become a distraction. I say this based on what I have seen and to point out that the "hairlines" shown above stop at the design elements and continue on the other side [actually they do not].
you are certainly free to your opinion.
Why thank you. I have an open mind. If you have an open mind also, would you please take the time to explain how wiping a die with a rag causes hairlines on a medal? I see by your post that we both know what a hairline is so we don't need to define them if you reply.
There are die polish lines present, but it also looks like there are lines (incuse) from cleaning or a wipe. Looks like two separate things going on here.
The coin is holdered. A grade of 61 hints to something going on.
I ain't saying any more.
Pete
IMO, today is one of those slow days on the US coin part of CU so rather than waiting for an answer to a question, I think I'll just add my opinion.
@keets explained how to ID Hairlines and Die Polish. Then he brought up an interesting observation:
1.** Die Polish** marks are left on a die when it is refinished, or cleaned. The simple act of wiping a build-up of any kind on a die May leave a microscopic mark if some grit or metal debris is on the rag. At least in theory. That's why we say any time you put a mark of any kind on a die, it will appeared raised on a coin struck with the die.
Many of the other types of marks we see on our coins are marks on the planchet that were not struck out or impact marks (PMD) that occur to the coin after it is struck. I am only discussing hairlines here. Anything that comes into contact with a coin May cause a hairline. Obviously that includes any type abrasion from a tiny piece of foreign matter all the way up to the multiple bristles in a brush. Hairlines come in degrees of coverage from simple mishandling to improper cleaning.
@keets asked about another "feature" he has seen on medals: "There is a third feature I have noticed on medals and exhibited in threads which I call "die wiping" for lack of a better term. they appear to be hairlines but are so faint that it is nearly impossible to discern whether they are raised or incuse. they would be present if a press operator stopped the press to remove some debris from the die surface and only wiped lightly with a cloth. if they are only scattered they aren't a problem, if they are abundant like this they become a distraction. I say this based on what I have seen and to point out that the "hairlines" shown above stop at the design elements and continue on the other side.
IMO, "die wiping" is not a very good term. If some folks used the proper magnification and lighting there would be no doubt whether the marks were raised on the coin (die polish) or into its surface (hairlines). That said, what this member may be seeing is common on copper medals - especially those with PL surfaces. Many of these medals have an oily film or residue that can be disturbed in ways (wiped with a cloth or camels hair brush) that make their surface appear hairlined even though the actual surface of the medal is original and pristine. Proper conservation will remove them and restore the surface without adding actual hairlines.
oh boy
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Those are hairlines. If you look at the closeups it's obvious they are incuse and the coin has been wiped or otherwise rubbed.
The easiest way to tell is to look at the shadows on the devices (for instance the star) and compare it to the shadows along the lines. If the shadows are in the same direction, you are looking at die polish. Because they are opposite, the lines are easily identified as not die polish (i.e. rub).
You know 'em when you see 'em
