Please read....This is what it is all about.....Have a great day.
DIMEMAN
Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
Take a Knee ! - To All Ballplayers, Everywhere
Take a little trip to Valley Forge in January. If you don't know where that is, just Google it from the sidelines. Hold a musket ball in your fingers and imagine it piercing your flesh and breaking a bone or two. There won't be a doctor or trainer to assist you until after the battle, so just wait your turn. Take your cleats and socks off to get a real experience. Then take a knee.
Then, take one at the beach in Normandy where man after American man stormed the beach, even as the one in front of him was shot to pieces...the very sea stained with American blood. The only blockers most had were the dead bodies in front of them, riddled with bullets from enemy fire.
Take a knee in the sweat soaked jungles of Vietnam. from Khe San to Saigon... Anywhere will do. REAL Americans died in all those jungles. There was no playbook that told them what was next, but they knew what flag they represented. When they came home, they were protested as well..and spit on for reasons only cowards know.
Take another knee in the blood drenched sands of Fallujah in 110 degree heat.. Wear your Kevlar helmet and battle dress... Your number won't be printed on it unless your number is up! You'll need to stay hydrated but there won't be anyone to squirt Gatorade into your mouth. You're on your own.
There's a lot of places to take a knee. Real Americans have given their lives all over the world. When you use the banner under which they fought as a source for your displeasure, you dishonor the memories of those who bled for the very freedoms you have. That's what the red stripes mean. It represents the blood of those who spilled a sea of it defending your liberty.
While you're on your knee, pray for those that came before you, not on a manicured lawn striped and printed with numbers to announce every inch of ground taken...but on nameless hills and bloodied beaches and sweltering forests and bitter cold mountains...every inch marked by an American life lost serving that flag you protest.
No cheerleaders, no announcers, no coaches, no fans...just American men and women...delivering the real fight against those who chose to harm us...blazing a path so you would have the right to "take a knee."
You haven't an inkling what it took to get you where you are; but your "protest" is duly noted. Not only is it disgraceful to a nation of real heroes, it serves the purpose of pointing to your ingratitude for those who chose to defend you under that banner that will still wave long after your jersey is issued to another...
If you really feel the need to take a knee, come with me to church on Sunday and we'll both kneel before Almighty God. We'll thank Him for preserving this country for as long as He has. We'll beg forgiveness for our ingratitude for all He has provided us. We'll appeal to Him for understanding and wisdom. We'll pray for liberty and justice for all...because He is the one who provides those things.
And there will be no protest. There will only be gratitude for His provision and a plea for His continued grace and mercy on the land of the free and the home of the brave. It goes like this...
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
Thought for the Day
"It does no harm just once in a while to acknowledge that the whole country isn't in flames, that there are people in the country beside politicians,entertainers,and criminals!"
Thanks for reading. 
Comments
...and not a word misspelled!
Still no catch
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
>
Mark you are a hoot.
And yes it was a catch. 
I see that Mark and Jon are back from their honeymoon.
I apologize for missing the wedding ceremony, but i had anything better to do that day.
Hope ya's got the 1804 silver dollar PCGS 70 that I sent as a present.
I have to admit that when I first read the title of this, I expected something about the Hokey-Pokey
Steve
about the players taking a knee, I sort of think it wasn't something I would do but can't hammer them to hard for doing it. I'm sure you have heard the old saying, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it." that's a little more pertinent and to the point than this conservative, self-righteous, BS cut-paste job.
everyone like Trump who did all they could to avoid Military service really have no objective way to look at a protest like what the players did/will do. I served, but that doesn't really give me any special reason to judge those who didn't.
also, nice touch by the writer to invoke the "God and Religion" clause that conservatives really love to embrace. it's just too bad they can't be a little more Christ-like and embrace their fellow human beings who don't look like them or think like them.
It's definitely your right to disagree. I thought it was well written and to the point and wouldn't call it BS just because you don't agree.
ANYTIME the view of ANYONE is that if you don't look like me, act like me or think like me you need to hit the highway..........................I call BS.
more to the point, the writer of that little diatribe should probably take some time to consider that he needs to thankful for the sacrifices made by those before him that allow him to freely express his view. after all, that's what the whole thing is about.........................The First Freakin' Amendment. his right to criticize those who chose to exercise their First Amendment Rights. that's why I'm free, able and willing to post these posts.
I grew up in the late 60's-early 70's, I consider myself a Hippie, so don't be shocked by anything I say. I remember the criticism of the Peace Sign as "The Footprint of the American Chicken" and it still pisses me off. imagine that, criticizing someone because they think Peace is better than War. I served, enlisted in 1975, but I still think Peace is the answer and not War.
BTW, you might be surprised that I wear my Dog-Tags around my neck everyday. guess what's on the chain between the two tags?? a small, Steling Peace Sign pendant!!!
believe in your convictions............................
I sense bobsled ride to hell
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Keet's.....I respect you and your convictions. I'm with you on war and peace. I would have preferred not to go to Vietnam, but I had no choice.
The First Amendment is often used way out of context. Like burning the Flag! Surely you don't think that falls under the First. If you do you need to read the First Amendment.
Mark......this is not at least by me going to get ugly. Just a peaceful discussion. I'm not mad and hope Keet's isn't either.
of course burning the Flag is protected by the First Amendment, the irony being how do you dispose of a Flag that is damaged or has touched the ground?? you burn it.
You know that is not what I am talking about.
I'm talking about in protest which is NOT covered.
I usually try to stay away from disagreements that could get out of hand or cause friends to become enemies due to their convictions being absolute opposites. This time I have to speak up. Dimeman is absolutely correct. It was a catch.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Are you trying to change the subject Brick?
You're a hoot........would love to meet you someday. 
I know this is a battleworn subject here but since a new thread has been started AGAIN I will say that i absolutely disagree with anyone taking a knee and Im glad Colin Kap has been run out of the league. Yes this is how I feel and my opinion will not change. Im not claiming to be a Patriot or the best US Citizen but I am thankful for all the veterans who served honorably and regardless of what anyone says it is disrespectful to all the wounded, MIA, KIA POW’s and the families of those that served under that flag. Especially while on national TV getting paid to play a sport and throwing your political or personal agenda down the throats of millions of people who just want to relax and enjoy a sporting event
He s high up on my list as well
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You know that is not what I am talking about.
I'm talking about in protest which is NOT covered
Jon, Jon, Jon.......................I know you feel it is Patriotic to stand up for the Flag and that it makes you feel good. BUT, burning the U.S. Flag is a protected form of FREE SPEECH, it is absolutely covered, no discussion.
there have been attempts to make BURNING A FLAG ILLEGAL BUT THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN STRUCK DOWN AS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. please, please, please check before you make an idiot out of yourself.
the most that has been done is some limited attempts to regulate the time and place where a Flag is burned, much like it is a requirement for the NAZI PARTY to get a permit to hold a rally, but that rally may be held and that Party isn't illegal(Though maybe it should be).
But what is "it"?
Our Democratic Experience and the defense of Human Rights as well as the pursuit of what is just extends well beyond "this"
Have a great day too...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
IT in the minds of people like Dimeman and the writer of the cut/pasted diatribe refers to the way we are supposed to believe if we are true, loyal and patriotic Americans.
some sheep may choose to march lock-step, I choose to think for myself.
--- in a sad, sick and disgusting way this whole "non-issue" kneeling during the Anthem business has been manipulated by three entities to divide us as Americans: our President, the alt-right media and Russia. without the involvement of those three preying on the faux-Patritiotism of people like the OP, this would have been relegated to its rightful place as a non-issue on page 56 of the newspaper. instead, it has confused people on the issue of Constitutionality and Free Speech as expressed in this thread.
stop with knee jerk reactions and learn to think for yourself while letting others think for their self.
If you think burning the Flag is OK. WE HAVE NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT! If I catch someone burning the Flag we will be on the news that night.
The only way I would allow burning the Flag ........ is if you wrap yourself in it First!!! I have absolutly no respect for any judge that would allow burning of the Flag!! NONE!!!!
Everyone here at CU is high up on my list.
But then again, the requirement for being high up on my list is simply having a coin or card collection worth over 2 cents, so that's not saying much.
Jon, the really great thing about America is that I enlisted and served in the United States Navy so that people like you could express thoughts like that freely. in other Countries around the World both you and I would be in danger for the thoughts we have expressed here.
the catch here is easy, though. if we followed your above outlined script, the big news story would be that you were arrested, jailed and awaiting trial on the appropriate charges.
--- I feel that I should add this disclaimer: I have never burned an American flag and so far as I know right now I never intend to. BUT, if someone wanted to burn an American flag I wouldn't try to stop them, it is their Constitutional right to do so. you seem unwilling to acknowledge and accept that fact.
So you think burning the Flag is protected by the First Amendment.........you and any judge who agrees should read the First Amendment.
So you think burning the Flag is protected by the First Amendment.........you and any judge who agrees should read the First Amendment
Jon, do some research, it isn't hard. the US Supreme Court settled this issue over 25 years ago and they know more about Constitutional Law and how to interpret what the First Amendment says than the both of us. it was decided during the term of George Bush.
I know what the judges ruled, but they are wrong....they need to read the First Amendment and STOP reading things into the Amendment that are not there. It's totally wrong.
I'm going to meet by buddies at McDonalds now. We meet every Wednesday morning. We all served in Vietnam defending our Country and Flag. Too bad you can't join us to express your beliefs.
Let’s see how do I say this? Here goes. The judges on the Supeme Court do this for a living. They are nominated and confirmed based on their track record. It’s safe to say they know more about constitutional law then........well anybody. Just because it doesn’t line up with your point of view doesn’t make it wrong it just makes it different. It also makes it the law.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Dimeman and Keets - Thank you for your service to our country.
Steve, thank you. a little story:
I served from 1975-1979 and never really thought much about it once I was discharged. I enlisted in part out of a sense of obligation, because I felt pride in what my father did during WWII and partly because times were hard and it was steady employment. I also had friends who had been in/were still in, they encouraged me to enlist. with all that in mind I expected nothing in the way of acknowledgement from anyone, it just seemed like what young men from my generation did.
however, I had some unpleasant memories of all the late 60's protests.
fast forward to around 2008-9 and the view of servicemen and women had changed in America. over the span of about 30 years the sentiment in the Country had gone from one of disdain to one of respect, due in no small part to Desert Storm and 9-1-1. I was at work one day and my boss sent me to Home Depot for some supplies. he's a Vietnam Vet, so he told me to show the cashier my VA card for the discount they offered.
I did that, she rang everything up, bagged my stuff and as I turned to walk away she said with a big smile "Thank You for your service." it didn't hit me right away, but by the time I reached my truck in the parking lot I had tears in my eyes. I had to sit for a few minutes to gain my composure. it was the first time in almost 30 years that someone thanked me directly.
even now it makes me weepy to think about it and though it seems a common thing today, it is still special to me. in the whole scheme of things joining and serving was one of the best things I have ever done. I only wish I could go back and do it better, but that's OK.
Thanks to all who served.
Thanks to all who protest.
You both make this country great.
While Flag Burning is protected by the first amendment, it is also totally fine to have a problem with seeing it burned. I wouldn't intervene if someone tried to burn it BUT I also wouldn't intervene when that person got a punch in the face (or two or three). No hospitalization. Just a couple good shots.
Everyone walks away happy and gets what they wanted.
God Bless, America
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Keets - It's the service in our armed forces from guys like you and Dimeman that allows us to spew our nonsense fun here at sports talk, and be able to enjoy our great hobbies of coin and card collecting, and the rest.
My nephew right now is serving over in Afghanistan, and I am very proud of him.
Mark, I respect you and your thoughts. But is what the judges say that they believe this is what is meant by the !st......really what it says. Just because they say something doesn't make it true. I am going to read the exact words of the 1st and go from there.......after I mow the yard.
I will say this.....I would spend time in jail before I stood by and watched someone burn the Flag. Sorry that's me.
I'm glad we met in person so I know how to take your position on this.
The OP is addressing those who would, or have taken a knee during the National Anthem. I have no clue why he would go on and on, as this is a long, long way from a Sports page posting. Things of this nature generally morph into an octopus-like thread (which it has), really accomplishes little and is better left within the thoughts of the OP.
I think we all realize the incredible sacrifices made by those who have stepped up and gone to those far away places and, sadly made the ultimate sacrifice. It is indeed mind-numbing to realize there are those in this country who have little or no respect for the sacrifices made to have and enjoy what we have.
I served in the 1st Infantry Division in Vietnam from 1969-1970. I'm a proud recipient of The Bronze Star.
I was blessed to come home alive and in one piece.
I truly thank you for your service and welcome home. I was there in 67-68 and got to enjoy the Tet Offensive. I too am glad to be home. I had a cousin that was not so lucky.
This is the exact wording of the First Amendment.
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
This is the words that the brilliant members of our Supreme Court read and somehow came to the conclusion that burning the Flag was OK. I don't see it.......do you?????
What I see here is the following:
1) Freedom of religion
2) Freedom to speak your mind
3) Freedom of the press
4) Freedom to peaceably assemble......key word here is PEACEABLE
5) Freedom to ask for changes you feel should be made
Nothing else.
The second amendment also doesn’t spell out the right to own AR-15’s specifically but it’s ok to do so. They had muskets back then. Not everything in the amendments or constitution is spelled out. It’s broad and is that way for a reason. We have a court in place for this.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sure it does Mark. The right to bear arms, which are guns . The AR-15 is a gun!
Where did I misinterpret anything in the First Amendment????? I guarantee you that our forefathers would roll over in their graves if you said you got the burning of the Flag OK ........out of the First Amendment.
Actually they would roll over in the their graves if they saw how this country is being run today.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Jon, you can argue this till the cows come home but don't argue in front of the United States Supreme Court because you will lose. Mark tried to explain things to you as I have and as others have, but you have a terribly closed, myopic mind about lots of things from what I read of your postings here. you tend to take the view that what is right is what you decide is right, and if someone disagrees they are in some way your enemy.
strangely, in today's America you will find a lot of company.
what the Supreme Court does is "Interpret" rulings and laws in the present day as they are viewed through the filter of the Constitution. I hope I am not now informing you of a simple wonderful aspect of our Constitution, it is a living, breathing document. it isn't stagnant, it changes and adapts to Society and interprets what we do now, not what people did 100-200 years ago.
Mark, again, tried to reason with you in regards to the AR-15, but you have a very narrow view of things.
here is my take on you as a person and from a Political standpoint --- the way the World is changing scares the crap out of you.
Burning the flag is an example of constitutionally protected free speech. The flag is so revered as a symbol of freedom that it epitomizes the point of free speech. Its not excluded. Even the flag doesnt get a pass. If you take away the right of ANY kind of free speech what’s next? What will they take away next? Isnt that the same arguement that those who say if they take away my AR-15 they will come for my hand guns next? You can’t have it both ways.
Flag burning sucks but it really proves that our right to speak and demonstrate freely trumps all symbols.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark & Keets........First of all you are not my enemy. It's not me against the world. I haven't talked to one Vet (besides Keets) that believes that burning the Flag is protected by the First. And you saying that the court continues to adapt and change the Constitution to fit the times is what scares me! Free speech is VERBAL not an act like burning and luting. These liberal changes reminds me of the frog and pan of water story. You see if you put a frog in a pan of boiling water he will jump out. But if you put him in a pan of room temp water and put it on the stove he will sit there and cook to death.
Guys it's not me and my idea and if you don't agree I don't like you. It's the fact that hundreds of thousands of men and women have fought and died for this Country and Flag and when people burn the Flag or dishonor the Country by not standing for the NA you are spiting on their grave. Trump said when he was running that he wanted to make it against the law to burn the Flag.........I sure hope he somehow gets it done. I would hate to go to jail for stopping someone from burning the Flag, but I would! That's what those men and women's lives mean to me.
Dimeman...I think you and I had a brief chat about this (or similar topic) some time ago. I remember your mentioning Tet and that you lost a cousin. I came right after Tet.
The problem with a thread like this is that perhaps not many were, where you and I were. They didn't live it, they didn't sleep there, eat there, have Christmas there and worst of all lose close friends. There didn't hear the bombs, nor the never-ending sound of helicopters. These kind of threads (as I mentioned), always, ALWAYS go off on a tangent and then it kinda blurs everything.
I choose to leave those memories in a box in the back of my mind. I do my best to avoid reminders of that crappy, crappy time.
As a fellow Vietnam Vet...just stay silent and let it go.
Best,
Al
Free speech very obviously extends beyond the verbal. Or are we now saying that sign language is not protected by the First Amendment? Clearly it is. "Speech" is clearly intended to cover all manner of expressing oneself that doesn't involve a crime against another person or property (i.e. punching someone in the face isn't protected speech).
Burning the flag is protected by the First Amendment. Saying that doesn't mean you think the act of burning the flag is "OK", it's simply an acknowledgment that it's not illegal.
Another way of looking at it, you're not saying burning ANY flag is barred by the First, just burning the US flag. So you're differentiating between two actions not on the action itself but the color and design of materials. That makes no sense.
Tabe....I disagree and do not think that part of the First goes beyond verbal or they would have written it differently.
And our Flag is not just a bunch of color and designs of materials........IT'S A SYMBOL OF OUR COUNTRY!
What part did I get wrong when I broke down the First line by line.
I have stated my case and will now take Al's (MCLVTopps) advice and let it go.
No one is spitting in anyone’s grave for kneeling for the National Anthem or burning the flag. They are protesting. Protests aren’t supposed to be pretty and painless. They are meant to get peoples attention. You have to be pretty pissed off about something to burn the flag.
Jon I would drop this. You are on the same path as when you got banned for political rhetoric.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
This thread exemplifies attempts to capture emotion, war and what should be considered patriotic behavior... Which is pathetic and filled with an incomplete account of history. Further, it represents what we are not and what we clearly should not stand for as a country. As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote... And I am paraphrasing... You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.
Justacommem... You were right in that this was not going to be pretty... But the truth is just often not what folks want to read.
There has simply been no consideration given to the position of those NFL players that chose to take a knee. Just maybe these players chose this path because they believed there was simply no other available option to express the frustration that nothing will change. I suspect the majority of those that chose to take a knee may not be history buffs, but if history is an indication of the pace of change... Seems questionable whether change will ever arrive.
Just to provide a few twentieth century references... Marian Anderson, Eleanor Roosevelt and the DAR. This event transpired in 1939. The DAR refused to allow Anderson to sing at Constitution Hall. Well... the First Lady resigned from the DAR in protest. Marian Anderson went on to sing at the Lincoln Memorial instead later that year. Anderson was recognized as talent of the ages... But even after her historic Lincoln Memorial concert, she did not make her first appearance at the Met in NYC until 1955. 16 years later? Simply pathetic... Take a knee for Marian Anderson and Eleanor Roosevelt.
Glen Taylor... The so-called Singing Cowboy... Who represented Idaho in the US Senate...was ruffed up by Bull Conner in 1948 for his opposition to segregation and Jim Crow. He was arrested in Alabama and the United States Senate basically did not see fit to give him the time of day when he chose to bring this incident to the attention of the US Senate on the floor of the most powerful legislative chamber in the world. Take a knee for the single term Idaho Senator that had a conscious.
And what makes the Glen Taylor saga even more pathetic is when South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond passed away. Mississippi Republican Senator, Thad Cochran, basically was blasted by everyone for making a positive comment about Thurmond and how things might have been different had Thurmond been elected President in 1948. Well, needless to write, Cochran resigned... And he was not just any Senator at the time, but the Senate Minority Leader. So as unfortunate as these comments were, did anyone on the Left or Right have the courage to at least at that moment in time offer praise to either Senator Glen Taylor or former Vice Pesident Henry Wallace for their position Civil Rights in 1948? The answer is No... and I suspect the families/relatives of both Wallace and Taylor will have to wait until hell freezes over for that to happen. Sadly the sons and daughter of Henry Wallace are deceased-not sure about the sons of Glen Taylor.
We could go down the path of the modern civil rights movement that some will argue starts with Rosa Parks and the Montgomery bus boycott. And maybe for the NFL players, the time table and end results from just the modern civil rights movement warrants the need to highlight that public attitudes have not matched the legislative intent of the various civil rights acts from 1957-1965.
History has a way of passing through generations whereby connections and appreciation for what transpired are lost. And in the process, the journey of where we have been and what we have experienced appears distant from where we stand which is equally problematic. Too many use the yardstick of today to measure the past without understanding how we even arrived at this point in time. And we see this today more than ever. While people can have opinions that differ, we cannot lose sight of history and events that shape perspectives even though they may be different from our own. We should celebrate that our democratic experience has survived, been challenged and proven worthy time and again. The price that has been paid has been high but there is simply no price that can be placed on the value of human rights.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I know Mark. I'm not going to change anybody's mind on this subject. Everybody knows how I feel a millions of others feel.
I'm letting it go.
Just don't burn a Flag in front of me because there will be a rumble!
I’m not going to change your mind. Just like your not going to change the millions that have a different point of view on this . We are all entitled to our point of view. Mine just happens to line up with the law on this one.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@coinkat lots and lots of wisdom in your words. Thank you
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sign language isn't protected? To say your position is in an extreme minority as far as interpretation of the 1st Amendment would be a big understatement.
a closed mind is a dangerous thing.