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1902 Flip Over Double Struck Barber Dime
StrikeOutXXX
Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
Someone in a Facebook group posted this dime and asked for opinions. Figured we'd get more input here, so I'll send him the link once I post this.
As can be expected, most said it needs to get certified 1st, and hard to tell from the pics, etc - but... what do you think
Assuming it's legit, what do you think it's rough value would be? I told him somewhat modern flip-overs sold in the 2-3k range, found a 1902 nickel that went nearly 6k - what range would you put this in (if certified/legit)?
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"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
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Comments
That would really need to go to a TPG before I’d be comfortable giving a value. The lack of denticles on the second strike make me suspect it is a genuine die struck a second time with false dies.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Hard to tell from the picture, but something does not look quite right with it. Good luck.
I have concerns. Need better pictures.
And "Discovered March 1988"? In change?
To me the color looks odd or is that considered toned.
Also have never seen a double struck with with the date and coin on opposite sides.
My guess not real, can you ask owner if they care to say purchase amount or how obtained.
I think the guy on Facebook who posted it saw it at a show and took the pics and was interested in buying it. The dealer is likely on the boards, he had a bunch of high end errors and told the guy he had been offered a job at PCGS in the past, but this is just 3rd party info.
I can't tell from the pics, but it almost appears the 2nd date isn't 1902 which would be a red flag for me.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Picture is to dark.
I believe there's only one FSDS barber dime know and this is not it.
Quite a few mercury dime and silver Washington quarter errors such as this had been crafted by a jeweler.
While not commenting on the authenticity of this piece, its color is perfect for an old silver coin. It is a flip over and that is why the date is on two sides.
Coins such as this can often be authenticated by examining the two strikes. If they were both from the same die, that is a plus.
Denticles are struck up when they are positioned over the upset rims of the planchet. When the strike is off center (and broad-struck), the Denticles are not as well formed as they are when struck centered in collar.
The pictures are not great, but it looks genuine and the toning appears original.
Great feedback so far.
No excuse for a coin like that not being in a slab, if genuine.
For sure. Wish I could have seen it in hand. The guy who asked about it on Facebook said it was at a local coin club show in Queensbury, NY. The dealer who had it wanted 100k for it, telling him it was unique. Only thing else he messaged me was the dealer had some rare gold coin errors and had been in coin world before. I invited the FB member tojoin the message boards, maybe he has more details on what he saw. Wish my local coin club shows had interesting stuff like that.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
This last comment is way true. Many years ago there was a dealer who specialized in one particular U.S. series. One ANA I saw in his case an off-center strike that happened to be aligned so that you could tell both the date and the mint mark (was either a D or an S) of the off-center strike. Also in the case was a coin struck normally where you could still see the date and the fact that the coin was from Philly. The coin also had an off-center strike where the date and mint mark area were not showing.
Comparing the two pieces, I could see that the same pair of false dies was used to make both off-center strikes. However, the date visible on the first piece DID NOT match the date on the normal strike of the second piece, and they were different mints as well.
All that said, I cannot tell anything about the dime from those photos. I neither confirm nor deny the error.
TD
Tell him good luck with that.
Maybe it is worth that but I highly doubt it. "Unique" does not automatically make it worth six figures. There are any number of things I would buy for 100K before that.
I saw this coin at the Bay State show a couple weeks ago. I don't know enough about errors to comment on the authenticity. This dealer had quite a few really dramatic errors on classic coins. I seriously considered buying one but decided I need to learn more before jumping into that area.
In my research I did find this:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1904-10c-barber-dime-flipover-double-strike-xf45-pcgs/a/1122-2269.s
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
You remember the dealer's name? The guy on FB didnt remember. I was hoping he was a member here and we could get more pictures.
That one you linked went for 4K 9 years ago. My initial thought on this coin I told the guy probably in the 6-10k range if certified, but certainly not 100k
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
There's actually a 1901 & 1904 both XF45 PCGS & NGC. I actually passed on the 04 that sold at HA in 09 and must have mentally blocked it out as I ended up bidding on a O/C gold error. The 01 is the one I recall seeing over the years and it last sold for about $5600 as I recall? So this would be another if legit as being posted on Facebook it could be Chinese... Oops Russian
Authenticity needs to be established by a TPG... the fact that a dealer is trying to sell it for $100K raw raises more red flags than the coin itself.... Any experienced dealer, coming into possession of such a coin, would have it authenticated prior to any effort at selling. This tells me it is a fake. Cheers, RickO
The 1902 piece looks good, from the
photos. Not enough to confirm from
the photos only, but not an obvious
counterfeit, based on what can be seen.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Sorry, I don’t recall. I believe he said he was from New York and has done the Bay State and other local Mass shows before. It was fun looking at all the classic coin errors in his case.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Interesting never seen double struck coins of that era witk so much of a double coin.
Savitale do you recall what else he had and were they graded or not?
You would think the dealer would put it in a new holder or is that part of the allure leaving it I assume original holder with staple taking out
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The staple on the right is different than others.
Does anybody remembet Phoenix Numimsmtics of Syracuse Ny.