Central States Show Report

U1chicago

Greetings all,

What follows are some personal observations and general comments from the Central States show (in no particular order):

~There was a $5 entrance fee per day or $10 for all days this year (1st time they have charged anything in the three years that I have attended)...I'm not sure if this had much effect. I saw about the same general number of people as last year (dealers with tables and the people running the show would know better if it lowered the numbers).

~Some tables were empty this morning (Thursday)...I don't think anyone left yet, so either some dealers could not make it or the rumors of a boycott (that I read on another thread here) were true?

~Most of the major people were there...Apmex did not have a table though (I don't think any recent threads were the reason for their absence ).

~Certified modern Gold and Platinum (eagles, buffalos, platinum) graded below PR 70/MS 70 was hard to sell; any of the 69 grades (PCGS and NGC) or raw pieces in OGP that I brought were seeing offers of melt or lower

~ @ricko alert: I did hear a few dealers discussing that gold and silver was selling well (I'm not sure at what prices though)...I saw a few cases with some government 1 oz gold bullion at spot or a few dollars over (and some modern gold commems at $5-$10 over spot)

~A small (positive) miracle: I sold an MS 70 modern gold commemorative at spot (hey I only paid a bit over spot when buying from...Apmex...when gold was still a few hundred below it's 2011 high)...it was a fair deal and I did use the proceeds for a nice toner for my collection...

~Speaking of buying, I only found one coin for my collection (sorry no picture yet) and I paid a toning premium. As I have experienced in my past few shows, selling seems to go better than buying at these shows as too many items are priced optimistically. There are deals to be found, but some of those were on items that I didn't collect (or want to attempt to resell).

~When selling, I saw a wide range of offers for some coins. One particular 3 cent nickel (NGC graded) saw offers of $250, $300, and $350...all from dealers that sold this type of coin...I quoted $350 to all 3 and the 3rd dealer got the deal done.

~The market for world coins was unusual; top pops and plus grades didn't seem to get too many dealers excited. Many dealers passed on even countering my prices. Some offered half of Heritage sales (these sales were all from 2018, so seemingly indicative of current values in my opinion). A few brave dealers took the risk and bought some!

~I saw 3 or 4 dealers that had Hawaiian coins (1883 Quarter, Half, & Dollar)...so they are available at these shows...one AU coin was reasonably priced, but looked somewhat cleaned (even though it straight graded); another dealer had a cool MS 67 Hawaii Quarter (I didn't ask the price as I knew it was outside my budget).

~In general it was a worthwhile show. I moved some coins that I no longer wanted (who would even want to hold modern gold commems ....kidding...there are some designs that I like). I bought a coin for my collection. And I spent a day looking at thousands of cool coins!

ms70

Thanks for the report. I always enjoy these reports.

U1chicago

And I forgot to mention the funniest moment of the show: one of the dealers told me that no one wants coins anymore; all the cool kids are buying bitcoin now. Welp; I'm no longer a cool kid

Maybe I'll just go listen to Echosmith now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSCzDykng4g

EVillageProwler

@U1chicago,

Your comment about the world coin market at CSNS surprises me considering CCE just concluded a few days ago.

EVP

U1chicago

And for the connoisseurs of free pens and other luxuries (like elongated cents and dealer store cards/tokens) I present the spoils from the show (note: the uniball pen is mine, but it would be nice if NGC upgraded their free pen game ):

bestday

@U1chicago said:
Greetings all,

What follows are some personal observations and general comments from the Central States show (in no particular order):

~There was a $5 entrance fee per day or $10 for all days this year (1st time they have charged anything in the three years that I have attended)...I'm not sure if this had much effect. I saw about the same general number of people as last year (dealers with tables and the people running the show would know better if it lowered the numbers).

~Some tables were empty this morning (Thursday)...I don't think anyone left yet, so either some dealers could not make it or the rumors of a boycott (that I read on another thread here) were true?

~Most of the major people were there...Apmex did not have a table though (I don't think any recent threads were the reason for their absence ).

~Certified modern Gold and Platinum (eagles, buffalos, platinum) graded below PR 70/MS 70 was hard to sell; any of the 69 grades (PCGS and NGC) or raw pieces in OGP that I brought were seeing offers of melt or lower

~ @ricko alert: I did hear a few dealers discussing that gold and silver was selling well (I'm not sure at what prices though)...I saw a few cases with some government 1 oz gold bullion at spot or a few dollars over (and some modern gold commems at $5-$10 over spot)

~A small (positive) miracle: I sold an MS 70 modern gold commemorative at spot (hey I only paid a bit over spot when buying from...Apmex...when gold was still a few hundred below it's 2011 high)...it was a fair deal and I did use the proceeds for a nice toner for my collection...

~Speaking of buying, I only found one coin for my collection (sorry no picture yet) and I paid a toning premium. As I have experienced in my past few shows, selling seems to go better than buying at these shows as too many items are priced optimistically. There are deals to be found, but some of those were on items that I didn't collect (or want to attempt to resell).

~When selling, I saw a wide range of offers for some coins. One particular 3 cent nickel (NGC graded) saw offers of $250, $300, and $350...all from dealers that sold this type of coin...I quoted $350 to all 3 and the 3rd dealer got the deal done.

~The market for world coins was unusual; top pops and plus grades didn't seem to get too many dealers excited. Many dealers passed on even countering my prices. Some offered half of Heritage sales (these sales were all from 2018, so seemingly indicative of current values in my opinion). A few brave dealers took the risk and bought some!

~I saw 3 or 4 dealers that had Hawaiian coins (1883 Quarter, Half, & Dollar)...so they are available at these shows...one AU coin was reasonably priced, but looked somewhat cleaned (even though it straight graded); another dealer had a cool MS 67 Hawaii Quarter (I didn't ask the price as I knew it was outside my budget).

~In general it was a worthwhile show. I moved some coins that I no longer wanted (who would even want to hold modern gold commems ....kidding...there are some designs that I like). I bought a coin for my collection. And I spent a day looking at thousands of cool coins!

MS 70 Gold at Spot ??? ....market is weak

U1chicago

@EVillageProwler said:
@U1chicago,

Your comment about the world coin market at CSNS surprises me considering CCE just concluded a few days ago.

EVP

I was surprised as well.
Heritage told me they didn’t bring any world buyers due to the show from last week. And dealers were saying that the world market is weak. I suspect the majority of world dealers attended CCE and didn’t set up here. The ones that had world items were likely those that just dabble in it and mainly focus on US.

U1chicago

@bestday said:

@U1chicago said:
Greetings all,

What follows are some personal observations and general comments from the Central States show (in no particular order):

~There was a $5 entrance fee per day or $10 for all days this year (1st time they have charged anything in the three years that I have attended)...I'm not sure if this had much effect. I saw about the same general number of people as last year (dealers with tables and the people running the show would know better if it lowered the numbers).

~Some tables were empty this morning (Thursday)...I don't think anyone left yet, so either some dealers could not make it or the rumors of a boycott (that I read on another thread here) were true?

~Most of the major people were there...Apmex did not have a table though (I don't think any recent threads were the reason for their absence ).

~Certified modern Gold and Platinum (eagles, buffalos, platinum) graded below PR 70/MS 70 was hard to sell; any of the 69 grades (PCGS and NGC) or raw pieces in OGP that I brought were seeing offers of melt or lower

~ @ricko alert: I did hear a few dealers discussing that gold and silver was selling well (I'm not sure at what prices though)...I saw a few cases with some government 1 oz gold bullion at spot or a few dollars over (and some modern gold commems at $5-$10 over spot)

~A small (positive) miracle: I sold an MS 70 modern gold commemorative at spot (hey I only paid a bit over spot when buying from...Apmex...when gold was still a few hundred below it's 2011 high)...it was a fair deal and I did use the proceeds for a nice toner for my collection...

~Speaking of buying, I only found one coin for my collection (sorry no picture yet) and I paid a toning premium. As I have experienced in my past few shows, selling seems to go better than buying at these shows as too many items are priced optimistically. There are deals to be found, but some of those were on items that I didn't collect (or want to attempt to resell).

~When selling, I saw a wide range of offers for some coins. One particular 3 cent nickel (NGC graded) saw offers of $250, $300, and $350...all from dealers that sold this type of coin...I quoted $350 to all 3 and the 3rd dealer got the deal done.

~The market for world coins was unusual; top pops and plus grades didn't seem to get too many dealers excited. Many dealers passed on even countering my prices. Some offered half of Heritage sales (these sales were all from 2018, so seemingly indicative of current values in my opinion). A few brave dealers took the risk and bought some!

~I saw 3 or 4 dealers that had Hawaiian coins (1883 Quarter, Half, & Dollar)...so they are available at these shows...one AU coin was reasonably priced, but looked somewhat cleaned (even though it straight graded); another dealer had a cool MS 67 Hawaii Quarter (I didn't ask the price as I knew it was outside my budget).

~In general it was a worthwhile show. I moved some coins that I no longer wanted (who would even want to hold modern gold commems ....kidding...there are some designs that I like). I bought a coin for my collection. And I spent a day looking at thousands of cool coins!

MS 70 Gold at Spot ??? ....market is weak

For many of the post 1986 commems, it is quite weak. Long gone are the days of the Jackie Robinson and others garnering major premiums.

EVillageProwler

@U1chicago said:

@EVillageProwler said:
@U1chicago,

Your comment about the world coin market at CSNS surprises me considering CCE just concluded a few days ago.

EVP

I was surprised as well.
Heritage told me they didn’t bring any world buyers due to the show from last week. And dealers were saying that the world market is weak. I suspect the majority of world dealers attended CCE and didn’t set up here. The ones that had world items were likely those that just dabble in it and mainly focus on US.

Sorry — I wasn’t clear. I meant that I was surprised that you’d make such a comment given that the world coin dealers likely weren’t at CSNS given the recent appearance of CCE.

In other words, your observations about the world coin market at CSNS is likely immaterial.

EVP

BillDugan1959

So, we haven't had a good recap (or any recap for that matter) on the 2018 CCE.

I'd like to know how many dealers and how much public attendance.

@U1chicago I appreciate your report and candor.

MrEureka

My take on the CCE: Bourse activity was limited but enthusiastic. There just weren't many dealers or many coins there. And virtually no public. But the auction results were strong enough. No signs of weakness in the market.

My take on world activity at CSNS. Far fewer coins than at CCE, fewer dealers, and no auction. Nothing even worth mentioning.

Edited to say that after reading my own comments, it's obvious why I don't do many show reports here. (:>)

BillDugan1959

@MrEureka Many thanks. Wanted to go to CCE, maybe even stay over at the Palmer House. Not do-able cash-wise.

ricko

Thanks for a detailed show report... Interesting about gold and bullion. Cheers, RickO

Jimnight

Thanks for the report.. I enjoy reading them.

U1chicago

@EVillageProwler said:

@U1chicago said:

@EVillageProwler said:
@U1chicago,

Your comment about the world coin market at CSNS surprises me considering CCE just concluded a few days ago.

EVP

I was surprised as well.
Heritage told me they didn’t bring any world buyers due to the show from last week. And dealers were saying that the world market is weak. I suspect the majority of world dealers attended CCE and didn’t set up here. The ones that had world items were likely those that just dabble in it and mainly focus on US.

Sorry — I wasn’t clear. I meant that I was surprised that you’d make such a comment given that the world coin dealers likely weren’t at CSNS given the recent appearance of CCE.

In other words, your observations about the world coin market at CSNS is likely immaterial.

EVP

I would not call it immaterial as this was a bigger show than CCE and there were dealers that had foreign material (some even had exclusively foreign). Plus more people go to Central States. I would agree that this show said nothing about top end ($ wise) of the foreign market, but for fairly widely collected foreign coins under $1,000 it was an eye opener.

Raybo

$5 entrance was MEH to me, first time I did have to pay since I have been attending (like forever), but if the show was still in Rosemont count on at least $20 for parking.
Waiting for the doors to open on Thursday the crowd was the biggest that I have seen since time began, or that my feeble mind can remember. Maybe the $5 entrance fee actually attracted more collectors?
I never knew that the CSNS was a haven for foreign coins, or am I reading to much into some of the posts? I don't really look for the dark side but did see a few dealers like I always have.

U1chicago

@Raybo said:
$5 entrance was MEH to me, first time I did have to pay since I have been attending (like forever), but if the show was still in Rosemont count on at least $20 for parking.
Waiting for the doors to open on Thursday the crowd was the biggest that I have seen since time began, or that my feeble mind can remember. Maybe the $5 entrance fee actually attracted more collectors?
I never knew that the CSNS was a haven for foreign coins, or am I reading to much into some of the posts? I don't really look for the dark side but did see a few dealers like I always have.

I didn’t think it was a haven for foreign coins but I thought that the world dealers there would be offering more than 1/2 of 2018 Heritage sales price (eBay had similar prices, so I don’t think the argument applies that Heritage bid up their own coins). There were two brave ones (who were not exclusively foreign) that were fair and got the deal done.

Raybo

@U1chicago said:

@Raybo said:
$5 entrance was MEH to me, first time I did have to pay since I have been attending (like forever), but if the show was still in Rosemont count on at least $20 for parking.
Waiting for the doors to open on Thursday the crowd was the biggest that I have seen since time began, or that my feeble mind can remember. Maybe the $5 entrance fee actually attracted more collectors?
I never knew that the CSNS was a haven for foreign coins, or am I reading to much into some of the posts? I don't really look for the dark side but did see a few dealers like I always have.

I didn’t think it was a haven for foreign coins but I thought that the world dealers there would be offering more than 1/2 of 2018 Heritage sales price (eBay had similar prices, so I don’t think the argument applies that Heritage bid up their own coins). There were two brave ones (who were not exclusively foreign) that were fair and got the deal done.

I don't understand, their prices were high?

RogerB

Next year will there be a $5 exit fee?

CascadeChris

@RogerB said:
Next year will there be a $5 exit fee?

Aside the whole kidnapping for purposes of extortion thing with that one..

U1chicago

@Raybo said:

@U1chicago said:

@Raybo said:
$5 entrance was MEH to me, first time I did have to pay since I have been attending (like forever), but if the show was still in Rosemont count on at least $20 for parking.
Waiting for the doors to open on Thursday the crowd was the biggest that I have seen since time began, or that my feeble mind can remember. Maybe the $5 entrance fee actually attracted more collectors?
I never knew that the CSNS was a haven for foreign coins, or am I reading to much into some of the posts? I don't really look for the dark side but did see a few dealers like I always have.

I didn’t think it was a haven for foreign coins but I thought that the world dealers there would be offering more than 1/2 of 2018 Heritage sales price (eBay had similar prices, so I don’t think the argument applies that Heritage bid up their own coins). There were two brave ones (who were not exclusively foreign) that were fair and got the deal done.

I don't understand, their prices were high?

I was saying that I had a coin that sold at Heritage for $600 this year; I wanted to sell for $450; multiple dealers did not even counter (passed) or offered $250-$300.
Those that had prices marked, were asking above Heritage/ebay/GC prices for their own material. Others I didn't ask as they did not have what I liked in their inventory.

blitzdude

Are they still planning on charging $5 tomorrow when half the dealers have packed up and another $5 on Sunday when 70% of them are gone?

U1chicago

@blitzdude said:
Are they still planning on charging $5 tomorrow when half the dealers have packed up and another $5 on Sunday when 70% of them are gone?

Yes and there is nothing on Sunday.

From the website:
"There is a $5 daily convention registration fee that applies during the regular public hours on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. An all event pass valid during regular public hours Thursday, Friday and Saturday is $10 for the duration of the convention. Life members of the Central States Numismatic Society receive complimentary registration. Attendance at the Heritage auctions, as well as all convention educational programs held on the second level of the convention center are complimentary."

Raybo

@U1chicago said:

@Raybo said:

@U1chicago said:

@Raybo said:
$5 entrance was MEH to me, first time I did have to pay since I have been attending (like forever), but if the show was still in Rosemont count on at least $20 for parking.
Waiting for the doors to open on Thursday the crowd was the biggest that I have seen since time began, or that my feeble mind can remember. Maybe the $5 entrance fee actually attracted more collectors?
I never knew that the CSNS was a haven for foreign coins, or am I reading to much into some of the posts? I don't really look for the dark side but did see a few dealers like I always have.

I didn’t think it was a haven for foreign coins but I thought that the world dealers there would be offering more than 1/2 of 2018 Heritage sales price (eBay had similar prices, so I don’t think the argument applies that Heritage bid up their own coins). There were two brave ones (who were not exclusively foreign) that were fair and got the deal done.

I don't understand, their prices were high?

I was saying that I had a coin that sold at Heritage for $600 this year; I wanted to sell for $450; multiple dealers did not even counter (passed) or offered $250-$300.
Those that had prices marked, were asking above Heritage/ebay/GC prices for their own material. Others I didn't ask as they did not have what I liked in their inventory.

So 1/2 means you got screwed?
Got it!

U1chicago

@Raybo said:

@U1chicago said:

@Raybo said:

@U1chicago said:

@Raybo said:
$5 entrance was MEH to me, first time I did have to pay since I have been attending (like forever), but if the show was still in Rosemont count on at least $20 for parking.
Waiting for the doors to open on Thursday the crowd was the biggest that I have seen since time began, or that my feeble mind can remember. Maybe the $5 entrance fee actually attracted more collectors?
I never knew that the CSNS was a haven for foreign coins, or am I reading to much into some of the posts? I don't really look for the dark side but did see a few dealers like I always have.

I didn’t think it was a haven for foreign coins but I thought that the world dealers there would be offering more than 1/2 of 2018 Heritage sales price (eBay had similar prices, so I don’t think the argument applies that Heritage bid up their own coins). There were two brave ones (who were not exclusively foreign) that were fair and got the deal done.

I don't understand, their prices were high?

I was saying that I had a coin that sold at Heritage for $600 this year; I wanted to sell for $450; multiple dealers did not even counter (passed) or offered $250-$300.
Those that had prices marked, were asking above Heritage/ebay/GC prices for their own material. Others I didn't ask as they did not have what I liked in their inventory.

So 1/2 means you got screwed?
Got it!

It would have meant that I got screwed if I sold to those dealers.
Fortunately I found two fair offers (one where I broke even and another that was a small gain).