Has anyone sent an ngc cac in for crossover...

gtstang

And it did not cross?
Asking because I saw one That ended recently I would of liked to own but never saw the auction when it was active. I would of def sent in for crossover if I did...

dpoole

Yep. It was an early 19th century uncirculated half eagle with a CAC. I think it didn't cross because of an early-imposed hairlines.

jmlanzaf

@dpoole said:
Yep. It was an early 19th century uncirculated half eagle with a CAC. I think it didn't cross because of an early-imposed hairlines.

Interesting. Kind of puts the lie to the CAC, doesn't it?

JeffMTampa

Yes, a 1906 NGC AU 58 Half with CAC crossed same grade at PCGS. I didn't get around to submitting it to CAC after crossing, and subsequently sold the coin.

Wabbit2313

Yes, several times.

DIMEMAN

I don't think a CAC sticker assures you of anything at PCGS. If it does anything...it raises a red flag.

Wabbit2313

I have also have some NGC coins with CAC upgrade on the crossover.

skier07

Intuitively it should cross, but it may not. If I understand this correctly, CAC is guaranteeing to buy back the NGC coin. They are not really endorsing a specific grade or whether it will cross.

gtstang

I would think a higher percentage of cac would cross but maybe that is just wishful thinking.

Walkerfan

I was told that NGC coins with CAC stickers have a better chance of crossing at PCGS but there are no guarantees, of course.

CommemKing

I wouldn't think they would ever see the CAC sticker. I think they cover the labels of the coins so they cant see the grades already on the coins.

Barndog

sent NGC MS63 CAC half dime to PCGS for cross. Came back PCGS MS61.

Sent PCGS MS61 to CAC, came back gold. Nice to see some consistency.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-half-dimes/half-dimes/1832-h10c-ms63-ngc-cac-v-4-lm-112-r5/a/1190-33047.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

ms70

@CommemKing said:
I wouldn't think they would ever see the CAC sticker. I think they cover the labels of the coins so they cant see the grades already on the coins.

That's how I would expect it to be done.

Desert Moon

@jmlanzaf said:

@dpoole said:
Yep. It was an early 19th century uncirculated half eagle with a CAC. I think it didn't cross because of an early-imposed hairlines.

Interesting. Kind of puts the lie to the CAC, doesn't it?

How so? Please elaborate. I have sent in around 10 NGC holdered coins with CAC stickers for crossing at PCGS and all but 1 have crossed at the same grade. All of these then received a new CAC sticker when they were sent in for consideration there. Grading is subjective so sometimes one TPG sees it differently than another. No worries and not a 'lie to the CAC'.

Best, SH

jmlanzaf

@spacehayduke said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@dpoole said:
Yep. It was an early 19th century uncirculated half eagle with a CAC. I think it didn't cross because of an early-imposed hairlines.

Interesting. Kind of puts the lie to the CAC, doesn't it?

How so? Please elaborate. I have sent in around 10 NGC holdered coins with CAC stickers for crossing at PCGS and all but 1 have crossed at the same grade. All of these then received a new CAC sticker when they were sent in for consideration there. Grading is subjective so sometimes one TPG sees it differently than another. No worries and not a 'lie to the CAC'.

Best, SH

A CAC label is supposed to not only reaffirm the grade but indicated that the coin is an "A" or "B" coin for the grade. If the coin would not actually cross at that grade, then you cannot view it as being either affirmed by the CAC nor near the top of the grade range.

As you say, grading is subjective and 1 opinion - including the CAC. And, quite frankly, your experiment with 10 crosses pretty much confirms the absurdity of the market with CAC. CAC coins usually trade ABOVE market for the grade which implies that buyers think CAC coins are superior to the grade given when they are pretty clearly not.

Desert Moon

@jmlanzaf said:

@spacehayduke said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@dpoole said:
Yep. It was an early 19th century uncirculated half eagle with a CAC. I think it didn't cross because of an early-imposed hairlines.

Interesting. Kind of puts the lie to the CAC, doesn't it?

How so? Please elaborate. I have sent in around 10 NGC holdered coins with CAC stickers for crossing at PCGS and all but 1 have crossed at the same grade. All of these then received a new CAC sticker when they were sent in for consideration there. Grading is subjective so sometimes one TPG sees it differently than another. No worries and not a 'lie to the CAC'.

Best, SH

A CAC label is supposed to not only reaffirm the grade but indicated that the coin is an "A" or "B" coin for the grade. If the coin would not actually cross at that grade, then you cannot view it as being either affirmed by the CAC nor near the top of the grade range.

As you say, grading is subjective and 1 opinion - including the CAC. And, quite frankly, your experiment with 10 crosses pretty much confirms the absurdity of the market with CAC. CAC coins usually trade ABOVE market for the grade which implies that buyers think CAC coins are superior to the grade given when they are pretty clearly not.

Clearly you don't know the term 'subjectivity in grading' and just want to blast CAC for some reason. Okay.

Best, SH

daltex

Legend has complained about coins not crossing in their write-ups.

Boosibri

CAC has their standards, NGC has theirs and PCGS a third. Sometime CAC coins cross, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it takes a few times.

There are volumes written on this subject on the forum. The first page is generally the most helpful on the varying grading standards before the CAC bashing starts

jmlanzaf

@spacehayduke said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@spacehayduke said:

rm the grade but indicated that the coin is an "A" or "B" coin for the grade. If the coin would not actually cross at that grade, then you cannot view it as being either affirmed by the CAC nor near the top of the grade range.

As you say, grading is subjective and 1 opinion - including the CAC. And, quite frankly, your experiment with 10 crosses pretty much confirms the absurdity of the market with CAC. CAC coins usually trade ABOVE market for the grade which implies that buyers think CAC coins are superior to the grade given when they are pretty clearly not.

Clearly you don't know the term 'subjectivity in grading' and just want to blast CAC for some reason. Okay.

Best, SH

It's not CAC bashing - it's bashing of the market interpretation of CAC.

And, again, the OP refers to a coin that wouldn't straight grade out of a CAC much less cross.

jmlanzaf

@Boosibri said:
CAC has their standards, NGC has theirs and PCGS a third. Sometime CAC coins cross, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it takes a few times.

There are volumes written on this subject on the forum. The first page is generally the most helpful on the varying grading standards before the CAC bashing starts

It's not CAC that's the problem, it's the market mis-interpretation of CAC. [Or NGC or PCGS, for that matter.]

gtstang

I was curious about personal experience not assumptions. Every coin is individual in it's own way and each company can have differng opinions. I think we all agree on that.
This is the coin I was wondering about.
Graded ms 66 ngc and cac approved. It was struck with eroded dies. I don't know who now owns it and I think it's a tough one to grade.

Cougar1978

I don’t spend money crossing NGC coins. On any given day.....ever hear the saying FB games are played on grass? That CAC liked a coin is no guarantee I or anybody else will like it / pay the money for it. If I have pay more money for cac coin then I have ask more bc of markup equation - many balk at paying more.

bigjpst

@jmlanzaf said:

@Boosibri said:
CAC has their standards, NGC has theirs and PCGS a third. Sometime CAC coins cross, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it takes a few times.

There are volumes written on this subject on the forum. The first page is generally the most helpful on the varying grading standards before the CAC bashing starts

It's not CAC that's the problem, it's the market mis-interpretation of CAC. [Or NGC or PCGS, for that matter.]

I can see your point but there was always a class of a b and c coins and prices. Coins that carries a premium because of eye appeal or some other positive factor. Now it’s just easier for people who aren’t as experienced to use somebody else’s opinion.
I would also argue that Some CAC coins have a premium but mostly because coins without cac are losing value. Generic dollars gold etc where cac was posting bids on CDN and it was showing up in the Greysheet before they separated the two. People didn’t realize that the bid price listed in the Greysheet was for cac and couldn’t figure out why they couldn’t sell their coins for anywhere near bid.

Back to original question I think boosibri explained it best. CAC is guaranteeing they will buy the coin at their posted bids for the grade. They make no statement of whether ngc or pcgs will agree or cross.

There are also lots of reasons why a coin won’t cross that really don’t have to do with technical grade. The tpg will likely err on the side of caution If they will have to guarantee it in the future.

Walkerfan

I like that frosty, old coin. I think it is accurately graded. Nice old NGC #7 slab, too.

Wabbit2313

I would never buy that coin and I give it a zero percent chance of a cross these days.

jmlanzaf

@bigjpst said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Boosibri said:
CAC has their standards, NGC has theirs and PCGS a third. Sometime CAC coins cross, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it takes a few times.

There are volumes written on this subject on the forum. The first page is generally the most helpful on the varying grading standards before the CAC bashing starts

It's not CAC that's the problem, it's the market mis-interpretation of CAC. [Or NGC or PCGS, for that matter.]

I can see your point but there was always a class of a b and c coins and prices. Coins that carries a premium because of eye appeal or some other positive factor. Now it’s just easier for people who aren’t as experienced to use somebody else’s opinion.
I would also argue that Some CAC coins have a premium but mostly because coins without cac are losing value. Generic dollars gold etc where cac was posting bids on CDN and it was showing up in the Greysheet before they separated the two. People didn’t realize that the bid price listed in the Greysheet was for cac and couldn’t figure out why they couldn’t sell their coins for anywhere near bid.

Back to original question I think boosibri explained it best. CAC is guaranteeing they will buy the coin at their posted bids for the grade. They make no statement of whether ngc or pcgs will agree or cross.

There are also lots of reasons why a coin won’t cross that really don’t have to do with technical grade. The tpg will likely err on the side of caution If they will have to guarantee it in the future.

Fair enough. But I still feel like the "CAC premium" has been getting out of hand.