If you received a coin in the mail that was different than the one you bought would you return it?

jmlanzaf

You bought a coin in a slab with a gold CAC sticker FOR A PREMIUM and received a generic coin with no gold CAC sticker. Would you just keep the coin or would you return it?

thebeav

I haven't voted yet, but it would certainly matter what the grade of the received coin was, relative to the perceived coin, and whether or not the received coin would 'gold bean'......
I am leaning toward the return however, as such a process just feels 'underhanded'......

aus3000tin

Like my Grandmother always said, "Do the right thing".

Chris

jmlanzaf

@thebeav said:
I haven't voted yet, but it would certainly matter what the grade of the received coin was, relative to the perceived coin, and whether or not the received coin would 'gold bean'......
I am leaning toward the return however, as such a process just feels 'underhanded'......

Same grade - no bean.

Of course "underhanded" depends on whether it is intentional or an honest mistake.

My implied point is that there is no point in doing it intentionally unless there are people out there who would keep the lesser coin. And I really don't think there are many, if any, people who would just keep the lesser coin.

BlindedByEgo

Depends on the coin.

ECHOES

Yes I would, matter of fact just happened to me.
Seller has two samples both dated 1956-D

I purchased this one,

Week later I received this one,

Honestly what would you do?
I can understand that people make mistakes, but the sample I purchased was sent to someone else, and I received the other persons sample.
Now I have to play the waiting game with two people, the person who is in possession of the item I purchased, and the seller.

So yes I would send it back. Really would like to know who won the other auction...

blitzdude

I'd probably start a thread, complain about it for days, request refund plus additional rebates and try to claim my loss was 20x greater then it really was. Oh yeah, then return it immediately for a full refund including round-trip shipping at the seller's expense.

thebeav

Of course, the Roosevelt dime example is blatant.
It is possible, however, to have two 1893 Morgan Dollars in MS64. One has a gold bean and one doesn't. Can you say, without question, that the beaned example is the nicer coin ? Of course not.
Now, on the other hand, if these two coins were offered by the same dealer, I would begin to second guess myself (even if I thought the un-beaned example was nicer), simply because this dealer has established himself as a CAC submitter (by having the gold bean coin).
Come to think of it, if a dealer has Allstate cases holding 1000 coins, and 85 of them have beans of some sort, can you safely assume the remaining 915 coins would not bean ?

abcde12345

Just keep it. Sometimes sellers make a mistake. They shouldn't be punished for it by having to then accept the hassle of a return.

ECHOES

@abcde12345 said:
Just keep it. Sometimes sellers make a mistake. They shouldn't be punished for it by having to then accept the hassle of a return.

I love this guy

Gluggo

Yes I would return it and if the coin turned out to be worth more money and I wanted to keep the coin, I would compensate the seller to reflect the better deal I got to help the seller too.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

...private-poll is fine but I’m the “not sure” as it depends on what I received...communication is the key to handle any situation involving monies...I never limit my options in any event

jmlanzaf

@abcde12345 said:
Just keep it. Sometimes sellers make a mistake. They shouldn't be punished for it by having to then accept the hassle of a return.

You are keeping a LESSER coin. But, it is your choice.

ECHOES

@3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
...private-poll is fine but I’m the “not sure” as it depends on what I received...communication is the key to handle any situation involving monies...I never limit my options in any event

Can't begin to tell you how much communication there was, and will be...
So, I'll take it one step further.
I purchased a 1963 rattler sample from the same seller,
He sent me a 1963-D rattler. To avoid the 'hassle' of a return I purchased the 1963-D as well.
He made good on the 63 and sent to me.
The 1956-D different story, I sent it back to him in exchange for the sample I purchased.

Walkerfan

If you paid up for a gold sticker you likely paid for the next grade up, so keeping a generic coin at that price would be foolish.

ACop

Hahaha...
Poll: "If a stranger on the internet got bait and switched at a seller you buy junk silver from and buyer ousts the seller and dozens other do to, would you cry about it for a week?"

ACop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIbf6JqkNc

Bochiman

Threads like these, and others started by people in response to threads "they" don't like, are certainly telling about the people that start these threads.

Raybo

@Bochiman said:
Threads like these, and others started by people in response to threads "they" don't like, are certainly telling about the people that start these threads.

Yup.

Hydrant

Excuse me all the way to h*'ll and back. However, the question you're asking seems to be to me at least is this; "If you could get away with it, would you cheat somebody for money?" Tell me I'm wrong. Please.

bigjpst

@Hydrant said:
Excuse me all the way to h*'ll and back. However, the question you're asking seems to be to me at least is this; "If you could get away with it, would you cheat somebody for money?" Tell me I'm wrong. Please.

In another thread the arguments by others was made that it was the business model of a particular hypothetical company to list specific coins for sale and then switch them.
The opp was making the counter argument that nearly every collector put in that position would return the incorrect item. So it would be a ridiculous business model because the expense of all the free returns etc would outweigh any potential gains for the few times that it worked.
It’s hard to keep all these hypothetical companies in order who are ripping people off so I could be wrong.

jmlanzaf

@ACop said:
Hahaha...
Poll: "If a stranger on the internet got bait and switched at a seller you buy junk silver from and buyer ousts the seller and dozens other do to, would you cry about it for a week?"

lmfao

Pot...kettle...

jmlanzaf

@Hydrant said:
Excuse me all the way to h*'ll and back. However, the question you're asking seems to be to me at least is this; "If you could get away with it, would you cheat somebody for money?" Tell me I'm wrong. Please.

You're wrong. Reading is fundamental. The question says nothing about the seller or cheating. The question refers only to the buyer - who has cheated no one.

jmlanzaf

@Bochiman said:
Threads like these, and others started by people in response to threads "they" don't like, are certainly telling about the people that start these threads.

When people don't like the counterpoint to an original argument, it really says something about those people, doesn't it?

jmlanzaf

@ACop said:
Hahaha...
Poll: "If a stranger on the internet got bait and switched at a seller you buy junk silver from and buyer ousts the seller and dozens other do to, would you cry about it for a week?"

You have exactly zero evidence that you were "bait and switched" (shouldn't that be "baited and switched"). You ASSUME intent instead of an error. That is my fundamental complaint: fairness.

Did you actually "oust" Apmex from somewhere or simply attempt to "out" them on the internet?

In the end, I care neither about you nor Apmex. [Never bought silver from them, by the way. Another assumption of yours.] I do care about fairness. It's hardly a compliment to Apmex, but I'm not sure why you are so loathe to admit that it is possible that they are simply sloppy.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

@ECHOES said:

@3keepSECRETif2rDEAD said:
...private-poll is fine but I’m the “not sure” as it depends on what I received...communication is the key to handle any situation involving monies...I never limit my options in any event

Can't begin to tell you how much communication there was, and will be...
So, I'll take it one step further.
I purchased a 1963 rattler sample from the same seller,
He sent me a 1963-D rattler. To avoid the 'hassle' of a return I purchased the 1963-D as well.
He made good on the 63 and sent to me.
The 1956-D different story, I sent it back to him in exchange for the sample I purchased.

...I just warmed up, and wolfed down 3 sugar-sprinkled blueberry muffins in the convection oven and washed it all down with a tall jar of organic grass-fed vitamin-D milk...life is good buddy...life is very good

Bochiman

@jmlanzaf said:

@Bochiman said:
Threads like these, and others started by people in response to threads "they" don't like, are certainly telling about the people that start these threads.

When people don't like the counterpoint to an original argument, it really says something about those people, doesn't it?

Not at all. Disagreement with any counterpoint is fine. Childish trolling by creating threads to try to poke at people, such as this thread was created to do, obviously, says a lot.

There are people that HAVE to have the last word, no matter what. The way that some people do it is to create new threads of "their own" and then to reply to everything that doesn't agree with them...with a "counterpoint".

So, enjoy yourself and have your last word. I've said my point and anything further is a waste of time with a certain forum member.

ACop

@jmlanzaf said:

You have exactly zero evidence that you were "bait and switched" (shouldn't that be "baited and switched"). You ASSUME intent instead of an error. That is my fundamental complaint: fairness.

Of course there's no "evidence". What am I going to do, hire a detective or open a case at the FBI. Evidence is impossible here. What there is though is there is a pattern, not just in my purchase history where they literally admitted their internal policy is not to show the actual coins but use stock imagery, but also from the at least 10 other members who reported similar antics. Did you even read the photoshop composite story? That's ridiculous and willful effort to misrepresent product.

Dont bother responding that if I knew these things then I should have stayed away, I already explained why I decided to give them another shot numismatically. I, like many others do buy bullion from them, and I recommend them 100% of the time when people ask me where to get silver and gold. And I will continue to do so. But when it comes to coins, they need to improve. And by improve I mean a radical policy change.

In the end, I care neither about you nor Apmex.

That seems quite obvious

It appears you would make a better English teacher than you do fake trial lawyer on the internet.

jmlanzaf

@ACop said:

@jmlanzaf said:

You have exactly zero evidence that you were "bait and switched" (shouldn't that be "baited and switched"). You ASSUME intent instead of an error. That is my fundamental complaint: fairness.

Of course there's no "evidence". What am I going to do, hire a detective or open a case at the FBI. Evidence is impossible here. What there is though is there is a pattern, not just in my purchase history where they literally admitted their internal policy is not to show the actual coins but use stock imagery, but also from the at least 10 other members who reported similar antics. Did you even read the photoshop composite story? That's ridiculous and willful effort to misrepresent product.

Dont bother responding that if I knew these things then I should have stayed away, I already explained why I decided to give them another shot numismatically. I, like many others do buy bullion from them, and I recommend them 100% of the time when people ask me where to get silver and gold. And I will continue to do so. But when it comes to coins, they need to improve. And by improve I mean a radical policy change.

In the end, I care neither about you nor Apmex.

That seems quite obvious

It appears you would make a better English teacher than you do fake trial lawyer on the internet.

Yes, I read the photoshop composite story. I'm not defending their sloppy business practices.

Desert Moon

Dear jmlanzaf,
You seem to want to copy everyone's threads to put your own twist on one issue. First you copy ACop's thread on APMEX with your own twist, and now you copy my poll with your own twist. Then you go and give me all kinds of disagrees for stating my opinion on my thread including the OP. Does not seem very rational..........

Best, SH

jmlanzaf

@Bochiman said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Bochiman said:
Threads like these, and others started by people in response to threads "they" don't like, are certainly telling about the people that start these threads.

When people don't like the counterpoint to an original argument, it really says something about those people, doesn't it?

Not at all. Disagreement with any counterpoint is fine. Childish trolling by creating threads to try to poke at people, such as this thread was created to do, obviously, says a lot.

There are people that HAVE to have the last word, no matter what. The way that some people do it is to create new threads of "their own" and then to reply to everything that doesn't agree with them...with a "counterpoint".

So, enjoy yourself and have your last word. I've said my point and anything further is a waste of time with a certain forum member.

You misuse the term "troll".

Every now and then you feel the need to weigh in and let me know that you dislike me. Thank you for taking the time.

You also felt the need to turn this discussion of Apmex into a discussion of my alleged character flaws. Thank you again for taking the time.

And, just to be clear, this thread was not aimed at Acop but Spacehayduke who was running a poll trying to suggest that anyone on here felt INTENTIONAL misrepresentation was ethical.

There is an "ignore" up at the top of the page if you'd like to use it.

jmlanzaf

@spacehayduke said:
Dear jmlanzaf,
You seem to want to copy everyone's threads to put your own twist on one issue. First you copy ACop's thread on APMEX with your own twist, and now you copy my poll with your own twist. Then you go and give me all kinds of disagrees for stating my opinion on my thread including the OP. Does not seem very rational..........

Best, SH

If "everyone" means you and acop, then you are correct.

I "disagreed" with your poll and one comment because it is misrepresents one side of the Apmex discussion. No one - especially not myself - has ever suggested that INTENTIONALLY swapping coins is ethical. The discussion was over whether it was an honest mistake or a dishonest business practice.

Can I disagree with you calling me irrational? Nah, I'll let it stand.

[By the way, if we aren't supposed to ever disagree, why is there a disagree button?]

ricko

Wow...this thread went downhill faster than Bill Clinton's trousers in a trailer park.... Cheers, RickO

blitzdude

@ricko said:
Wow...this thread went downhill faster than Bill Clinton's trousers in a trailer park.... Cheers, RickO

Didn't you mean to say faster than donald trumps trousers in a Russian whorehouse?

ricko

@blitzdude ...No, we have evidence of my statement while the other was a phony concoction paid for by losers. Cheers, RickO

ECHOES

@ricko
I'm dying over here....