The biggest hobby controversies of the 80s/90s...anyone remember these?

EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

Now I've been a collector since I was 13 years old (when I first started buying packs regularly) though it wasn't until I entered college at the dawn of the millenium (fall 1999) that I feel like I started to seriously collect (in the sense I could get complete sets and put in binders instead of just a random assortment of cards from the packs). That being said I was able to read Becketts and sometimes some other hobby publications from the 90s and sometimes late 80s. And like anything else in this world, there were some controversies in the hobby back then. Anyone recall these?

1. 1989 Fleer Bill Ripken -- Need I say more? Say does the Bill Ripken guy still come around here anymore?

2. Complaints about too many sets each year - Believe it or not this started as far back as the early 90s (check out the jump of the number of sets from 1990 to 1991 and then to 1992 and you'll see what I mean) and one common theme was people complaining that say, they routinely bought the "big three" (Donruss/Fleer/Topps) and now they feel overwhelmed by all these other sets and feel like they "have" to do those as well. My view on that is, why not just continue to get the sets you always have and just ignore those "other sets"?

3. "Killing the messenger", eh Price Guide - There were often many letters in the Readers Write (what the letters to Beckett section was called at the time) complaining that "you" (Beckett) made my favorite player's cards worthless!! This is the equivalent of calling your local meteorologist and complaining that they ruined your weekend Bar-B-Q with a bad storm. Beckett doesn't make the prices, they report them.

4. Garbage Pail Kids cards - This is sort of a forgotten one but did you know that there were some players (such as Glenn Davis) who were so opposed to Garbage Pail Kids cards, they refused to sign Topps cards but will sign other ones? I mean I get that the GPK cards are not for everyone but can't people then and now find better things to be morally outraged about? Incidentally I remember in Baseball Cards Magazine someone writing in about how much GPK's are worth and the reply was the name says it all, garbage. Yeah, how is that "garbage" holding up now? ;)

5. Cutting up Babe Ruth's bat for game used insert cards - Okay you guys remember how in in the late 90s we started having the first ever cards that had a piece of game used sports memorabilia on it? Well a couple of years or so afterwards it was announced that a game used Babe Ruth bat was bought at auction...to cut up into little squares and make insert cards out of. Needless to say there were many people who thought this was the equivalent of sacrilege...cutting up a priceless Babe Ruth bat for some gimmick.

6. Mickey Mantle organ donor cards - In 1995 when and right before Mickey Mantle passed away there was a special organ donor card made with a message from Mickey himself.

Well there was a bit of controversy with these because people were concerned that people wouldn't use these as intended but rather "save them in case they're worth something someday". Not to mention on a related note someone was applauded at the price increases of Mantle cards right after his death as it appeared like dealers were "taking advantage of a bad situation". Personally I think doing the organ donor thing at your local DMV with your state license/ID marking you as a donor is far more effective but I digress.

7. Clear plastic peel "protection" on Finest and other "chrome" cards (starting in 1995) - While adding the clear plastic peel off film (starting in 1995) certainly seemed like the perfect idea on paper (after all it helps from keeping the chrome/finest surface from getting scratched, especially before the pack is even opened) there was considerable controversy about whether one should peel them. In fact I even asked this question myself a few years back explaining the situation. At the time it was like you risked ruining the card's value if you peeled it...but the cards do look much better and gorgeous peeled and shiny so as you guys suggested since I'm not going to sell them anyway... ;)

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/6016628

8. Michael Jordan so-called "college rookies!!!"...that were issued several years after the fact - This is more an early 2000s thing but that was not cool that they sold Michael Jordan cards from the 1989 North Carolina Collegiate Collection set as "college rookies"...even though they came out several years after Jordan played at UNC!! Unless the cards came out while Jordan was at Carolina and the cards were meant to be about the then current team, then it doesn't count. And on a more partisan note, I think it's grossly unfair that because of Jordan there are billions of those North Carolina Collegiate Collection sets on ebay...but it took me many years just to find one 1989 Kentucky Collegiate Collection set...and I still can't find a 1988 one. :( They are very nice sets BTW.

Any others you can think of?

My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

WISHLIST
1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
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Comments

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2018 11:02AM

    You could also add in the mid-90's when the Star Company printed then sold bagged 1985 basketball sets on the Shop At Home Network as if they were original cards from 1985 that had been sitting in the Star company vault for 10 years before being released. There were all kinds of Michael Jordan sets that were big sellers before the NBA got the feds involved. After getting shutdown the NBA ended up suing the Star Co president.

    Eric

  • ElvisPElvisP Posts: 718 ✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2018 7:58PM

    I miss the Home Shopping Network. Used to stay up to the wee hours watching all the cards they had. At times that had some nice vintage stuff. is there any places like this now that sells cards. I see shows all the time selling coins but not cards.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2018 11:16AM

    @ElvisP said:
    I miss the Home Shopping Network. Used to stay up to the wee hours watching all the cards they had. At times that had some nice vintage stuff. is there any places like this now that sales cards. I see shows all the time selling coins but not cards.

    I'm not sure if there is anything comparable to HSN these days. I stayed up to see what they had for sale too but never bought anything. Some of their prices were just insane like selling a Michael Jordan 1985 Nike 3x5 promo card in a Pro Gem Mint 10 slab for $10K.

    Eric

  • EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

    Yeah, this is more an early 2000s thing but that was not cool that they sold Michael Jordan cards from the 1989 North Carolina Collegiate Collection set as "college rookies"...even though they came out several years after Jordan played at UNC!! Unless the cards came out while Jordan was at Carolina and the cards were meant to be about the then current team, then it doesn't count.

    And on a more partisan note, I think it's grossly unfair that because of Jordan there are billions of those North Carolina Collegiate Collection sets on ebay...but it took me many years just to find one 1989 Kentucky Collegiate Collection set...and I still can't find a 1988 one. :( They are very nice sets BTW.

    My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

    http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

    WISHLIST
    1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • brad31brad31 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭✭

    I would add the counterfeit Rose and Mattingly rookies.

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    You could also add in the mid-90's when the Star Company printed then sold bagged 1985 basketball sets on the Shop At Home Network as if they were original cards from 1985 that had been sitting in the Star company vault for 10 years before being released. There were all kinds of Michael Jordan sets that were big sellers before the NBA got the feds involved. After getting shutdown the NBA ended up suing the Star Co president.

    The Shop at Home fiasco wasn't as bad (as far as Jordans) as people think (the Star owner is still a giant dbag though). They printed new versions of some sets like Crunch 'n Munch and Lite and backdated them but used different colors. This was because they were the only original plates they had. They contracted out most of their original printing and those companies no longer existed at the time. They also reprinted 1985 #95-172. There were no '84 Jordans reprinted.

    In fact, it's pretty easy to spot a fake Star card when you know what you're looking for.

    Arthur

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2018 12:23PM

    @ReggieCleveland I agree,i actually bought quite a few of MJ's HSN cards & sets a year ago but eventually stopped collecting them. Sellers wanted an arm & a leg for them when they're pretty much nothing more than novelty items that can't be graded. They were also pain to resell without the Star Co letterhead signed by Robert Levin showing they weren't just the everyday Star reprints. Its basically a huge scam altogether on ebay now when there are so many reprints of these HSN "reprints" and half of the sellers all use the same Star letterhead image taken from Worthpoint as if they had personally bought these from HSN.

    Eric

  • dmurphy3mvpdmurphy3mvp Posts: 264 ✭✭✭

    The Star Company BK market falling apart in the mid-90s was the reason I graduated college with student debt. If ever meet Robert Levin...

    Reed Kasaoka
    Buyer, Baseball Card Exchange

    cell: (808) 372-1974
    email: [email protected]
    website: www.bbce.com
    eBay stores: bbcexchange, bbcexchange2, bbcexchange3, bbcexchange4

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oooo... what's this letterhead thing? Never heard of that.

    Arthur

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2018 1:37PM

    I just did a quick Worthpoint search and this is one of them that you got when purchasing one of the HSN sets. I had about 10 different buyers asking if i had this letter showing the Star HSN cards i was selling weren't just reprints. I guess buyers paid more when the seller had a pic of this letter in their auction and I wasn't sleazy enough to just copy & paste that image in my auction when i sold off my HSN Star stuff.

    Eric

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭

    Beckett's lawsuit against CPU (Card Prices Update).

    Steve

  • TabeTabe Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭

    @Estil said:
    Yeah, this is more an early 2000s thing but that was not cool that they sold Michael Jordan cards from the 1989 North Carolina Collegiate Collection set as "college rookies"...even though they came out several years after Jordan played at UNC!! Unless the cards came out while Jordan was at Carolina and the cards were meant to be about the then current team, then it doesn't count.

    They did the same thing with a Mark McGwire card. "1982 Alaska Pilots" card - printed in 1989 or something like that. Completely unethical.

  • I'm an avid Bill Ripken collector. Donovan (the Bill Ripken guy) doesn't collect them any more. Check out my Showcase - "The Gerrans Collection". I wish PSA would slab some of the really rare cards so I could add to the showcase. If you have any rare Bill Ripken variations, I'm always a buyer :)

  • markmacmarkmac Posts: 411 ✭✭✭

    I remember there was a lot of debate as to whether Topps should reprint the 1952 Topps set in 1983.

  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭

    Reader's Write....it was more like Reader's Whine. Funny how Beckett has changed to the point they are now inflating prices to the point it is ridiculous.

    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • countdouglascountdouglas Posts: 738 ✭✭✭✭

    I know this probably isn't exactly what you're looking for, but Yankees pitcher David Wells caused a bit of a game used memorabilia/hobby controversy in 1997.

    Wells had about the same physique as The Babe, and since he couldn't get number 3 as a uniform number, he requested 33. Wells then purchased a game used Babe Ruth Yankee cap for $35,000, and proceeded to wear it on the mound during the first inning of one of his starts. I believe it was an umpire that noticed that it was a bit "off" compared to the current MLB Yankees caps, and told him that it was a uniform violation, and that he must change into his own cap to start the second inning or be ejected. So he switched back to his own cap.

    Even though he only pitched one inning while wearing the cap, Wells had worked up enough of a sweat for his perspiration to stain the Ruth cap. Some people thought what Wells did was absolutely the coolest thing ever, but many, many more people considered him to be a buffoon, with more money than sense. What kind of an idiot wastes $35,000 on a Ruth cap which he then ruined with his own sweat?

    Wells got the last laugh, though, as the Yankees won the second of 3 consecutive championships that year, and then the next year, he pitched a perfect game for the Yankees, and helped win yet a third straight. So now, while not on the level of Ruth, obviously, Wells was a Yankee with some notoriety of his own. Now, the cap was not just a game worn Babe Ruth cap, but a game worn David Wells cap, also. Plus, the cap had the added publicity because of the controversy of Wells sneaking it into a game that he pitched.

    Many had laughed at him for being a moron and actually wearing something that should have been handled with white gloves in order to protect his investment. I believe about 15 years after wearing it for one inning, Wells auctioned off the hat to raise money for a new baseball field for his high school alma mater (I believe, ironically, the same high school Don Larsen went to), and the winning bid was north of $500,000. So, while initially there was a lot of hand wringing and gnashing of teeth amongst the "memorabilia police" over the stunt Wells pulled, everything worked out in the end.

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First one I thought of?

    Operation Bullpen.

    Key forger - Greg Marino.

    Can't remember how many - but the FBI broke up over a dozen forgery rings.

    Mike



  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 23,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A controversy of sorts.

    SportsNet.

    A Proven Resource
    SportsNet is an exclusive, private, and secured computer
    trading network of professional sports collectible dealers.
    Since its inception in 1987, SportsNet has established a
    solid reputation as a reliable, easy to use, invaluable
    business producing tool.

    Don't remember specific details but many people were upset over the "manipulation" of case prices due to the buying and selling on the net when it was in its infancy. I heard about some "drop shipping" their product - making a profit - and never actually handling the case(s). This led to an artificial inflation of box prices I believe.

    The resolution? Join'm! Eventually everyone had a computer!

    Mike



  • seablasterseablaster Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    Lest it be forgotten, Upper Deck management had 1990 French hockey and other high value single cards reprinted to cash in on their price increase.

  • EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

    How were they able to do that exactly? In response to the 1993 UD Fifth Anniversary inserts there was someone who wrote to Beckett wondering if somehow UD could reprint 1989 Griffeys if they wanted...Beckett responded that there's nothing to worry about as the printing plates (as per usual protocol) were destroyed after the original print run and that to try to do the reprinting thing would be corporate suicide.

    My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

    http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

    WISHLIST
    1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    I just did a quick Worthpoint search and this is one of them that you got when purchasing one of the HSN sets. I had about 10 different buyers asking if i had this letter showing the Star HSN cards i was selling weren't just reprints. I guess buyers paid more when the seller had a pic of this letter in their auction and I wasn't sleazy enough to just copy & paste that image in my auction when i sold off my HSN Star stuff.

    Awesome, thanks Eric. I had never heard of the letter. Do you know which subset they're talking about? I know Jordan has an Olympic card in the '84 set and I believe one in his '86 subset but I've never even seen an entire subset consisting of just Jordan Olympic cards.

    Arthur

  • clarke442clarke442 Posts: 236 ✭✭✭

    @ElvisP said:
    I miss the Home Shopping Network. Used to stay up to the wee hours watching all the cards they had. At times that had some nice vintage stuff. is there any places like this now that sales cards. I see shows all the time selling coins but not cards.

    I don't remember how many times I would come home after drinking with the boys and end up drunkenly buying something.
    I may still have a Tiger Woods card somewhere.
    LOL!

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2018 7:48AM

    @ReggieCleveland That letter was for this set 10ct set. this was the one i had a hard time selling individually without the letter. I know there are red,blue & black Gold Medalist subsets containing just Jordan cards.
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1984-star-set-10ct-michael-jordan-1846399481
    This was the other set i sold
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1984-1985-star-gold-medalist-complete-517309415

    Here are a few others HSN sets:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Star-Lite-All-Star-Card-Set-Michael-Jordan-RC-Bird-Magic-HSN-RARE/112916452882?hash=item1a4a585612:g:mWEAAOSw6ZZaxcGO

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-1985-84-85-Star-Arena-Bulls-Michael-Jordan-RC-Complete-Bulls-Set-HSN-WOW/173240053270?hash=item2855e96e16:g:wg4AAOSw6T9auqVM

    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1986-star-white-border-bulls-set-1874070495

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-1986-STAR-Crunch-N-Munch-HSN-MICHAEL-JORDAN-ROOKIE-SET-Sealed-Bag-COA/253526754018?hash=item3b075f42e2:g:g18AAOSwbF1aRZNj

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-Jordan-1984-85-Star-XRC-NBA-Chicago-Bulls-Guard-14-Cards-Red-Set/123026140669?hash=item1ca4ededfd:g:OT4AAOSw241YYb5B

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1984-85-STAR-All-ROOKIE-TEAM-SET-UNRELEASED-ULTRA-RARE-WITH-COA/132362900120?hash=item1ed1719298:g:qboAAOSwrwxZ4Wl6

    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1984-85-star-olympic-gold-medalist-1797361722

    I know there is also a teal colored Gatorade set as well as UNC & Mcdonalds sets. There's probably a few others i'm forgetting.

    Eric

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    @ReggieCleveland That letter was for this set 10ct set. this was the one i had a hard time selling individually without the letter. I know there are red,blue & black Gold Medalist subsets containing just Jordan cards.
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1984-star-set-10ct-michael-jordan-1846399481
    This was the other set i sold
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1984-1985-star-gold-medalist-complete-517309415

    Here are a few others HSN sets:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Star-Lite-All-Star-Card-Set-Michael-Jordan-RC-Bird-Magic-HSN-RARE/112916452882?hash=item1a4a585612:g:mWEAAOSw6ZZaxcGO

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-1985-84-85-Star-Arena-Bulls-Michael-Jordan-RC-Complete-Bulls-Set-HSN-WOW/173240053270?hash=item2855e96e16:g:wg4AAOSw6T9auqVM

    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1986-star-white-border-bulls-set-1874070495

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-1986-STAR-Crunch-N-Munch-HSN-MICHAEL-JORDAN-ROOKIE-SET-Sealed-Bag-COA/253526754018?hash=item3b075f42e2:g:g18AAOSwbF1aRZNj

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-Jordan-1984-85-Star-XRC-NBA-Chicago-Bulls-Guard-14-Cards-Red-Set/123026140669?hash=item1ca4ededfd:g:OT4AAOSw241YYb5B

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1984-85-STAR-All-ROOKIE-TEAM-SET-UNRELEASED-ULTRA-RARE-WITH-COA/132362900120?hash=item1ed1719298:g:qboAAOSwrwxZ4Wl6

    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1984-85-star-olympic-gold-medalist-1797361722

    I know there is also a teal colored Gatorade set as well as UNC & Mcdonalds sets. These probably a few others i'm forgetting.

    You just blew my mind. All this time, all of my Star searches on eBay had always contained "BGS" in them. Obviously, I'm assuming BGS does not grade these or I certainly would have seen them before.

    The crazy part is, if they just came out and were like "okay this is a 1997 issue, will you please grade them as "1997 Star..." they might actually... wait, no, nevermind. These sets pretty much suck because they're so damn nefarious. Kind of makes me sick to my stomach to see those eBay listings with the sellers asking for $3k and providing the letter and trying to pass the off as real. That's just so dirtbally.

    But thanks for showing all of those. I feel like you showing me those actual sets was the missing piece to the puzzle that all my talks with Steve Taft had been missing. It all makes so much sense now. It also makes it so much more mind boggling as to why PSA doesn't grade these now. If I can easily detect a Star fake I'm pretty sure their graders could too after two hours with Taft.

    Arthur

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @clarke442 said:

    @ElvisP said:
    I miss the Home Shopping Network. Used to stay up to the wee hours watching all the cards they had. At times that had some nice vintage stuff. is there any places like this now that sales cards. I see shows all the time selling coins but not cards.

    I don't remember how many times I would come home after drinking with the boys and end up drunkenly buying something.
    I may still have a Tiger Woods card somewhere.
    LOL!

    Me too. Luckily I never bought anything. I have to admit though, I recently picked up a few Elite Dominators just because they reminded me of being up late and watching them peddle cards.

    So sweet.

    Arthur

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think BGS did grade a few Jordan's before catching on and stopping these altogether. As a Jordan collector I'd love to own all of these different MJ's but outside of the couple sets i bought (paid roughly $250 each) and a few individual Jordans,i couldn't justify paying these crazy prices for what amounts to novelty items. Not to mention who knows if there is someone out there printing "1997 Star" quality reprints then listing them with a scanned copy of the letter.
    There's definitely a stigma attached to these that unless your an MJ super collector they're really not worth buying.

    Eric

  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,373 ✭✭✭✭

    Won't say "controversy" but the memories of Don West screaming at me in the middle of the night and spitting all over the place gives me nightmares and fond memories to this day.

  • EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

    @markmac said:
    I remember there was a lot of debate as to whether Topps should reprint the 1952 Topps set in 1983.

    Was there really? I mean it was made the standard size and clearly said "REPRINT SERIES" on the back so what would've been the problem?

    My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

    http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

    WISHLIST
    1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those Court Kings look pretty darn close to the actual CKs.

    I can understand wanting all those sets. When you're a player collector you want everything. As an outsider, I have to say that I would probably never touch any of those sets simply because of what you said about somebody out there making "'97 Stars" with a bogus letter. Another problem is their condition. In a weird way, one of the appeals for me toward Star basketball is that there are modern cards where you'd be happy to have in an 8.5 or even lower for some cards. There's something extra authentic about that relationship with a card when you can step away from the never ending 10s and 9+s to gauge the merits between different 7s and decide which one you're going to plunk some money down on. All those '97 Stars look gem mint and are perfectly centered. "Perfectly centered" and "Star basketball" should never be in the same sentence.

    Arthur

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Arthur That's a great looking Court Kings MJ. i'm surprised you didn't get better than an 8.5 on centering i've seen much skinnier borders get 9+. I agree on the appeal of finding hidden gems that aren't in the 9-10 range. Since i got back into the hobby after a long hiatus and started commenting here,you guys have definitely helped me appreciate the beauty & appeal of certain aspects on cards. I used to be a strictly 9 guy now i look for the most appealing card to me no matter what grade is on the holder. Collecting only Jordans with the rollercoaster of high prices for most of his higher grade stuff,i love finding an undergraded 8 that looks like a 9 without the 9 price tag.

    Eric

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    Arthur That's a great looking Court Kings MJ. i'm surprised you didn't get better than an 8.5 on centering i've seen much skinnier borders get 9+. I agree on the appeal of finding hidden gems that aren't in the 9-10 range. Since i got back into the hobby after a long hiatus and started commenting here,you guys have definitely helped me appreciate the beauty & appeal of certain aspects on cards. I used to be a strictly 9 guy now i look for the most appealing card to me no matter what grade is on the holder. Collecting only Jordans with the rollercoaster of high prices for most of his higher grade stuff,i love finding an undergraded 8 that looks like a 9 without the 9 price tag.

    I've noticed that BGS has a very odd sense of what Star's perfect centering should be. They believe it should be favored heavily toward the bottom with a large fat border on the top, not an equal size border for both top and bottom. I've never understood this and have always looked for cards that had good subgrades but got hit on centering because they were actually centered. If PSA ever decides to grade these I should make out pretty well.

    Arthur

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If that day ever comes where PSA starts grading Star cards i have feeling the BGS Pop Report is gonna take a huge hit. There might be a record for crossover attempts & crackouts.

    Eric

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's not that much of it to begin with. Look at the Olajuwon rookie -- only 307 submitted, one 9.5, twenty-nine 9s, and seventy-one 8.5s. I got an 8.5 and was thrilled. That's such a bizarre concept for a card from 1984. An 8.5 and I was psyched. The BGS pop report holds some interesting secrets as well.

    Arthur

  • BillyKingsleyBillyKingsley Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭

    I have a copy of the 1985-86 Celtics team set in my collection from the HSN reprints. The ones with the white border. I'd add the other reprints in a heartbeat if I could find them at the right price.

    I had no idea they existed at the time of issue...I don't think we got HSN...I got them in a tiny shop on cape cod in 2004. It was gone when we went back the next year.

    Billy Kingsley ANA R-3146356 Cardboard History // Numismatic History
  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2018 10:03AM

    @BillyKingsley said:
    I have a copy of the 1985-86 Celtics team set in my collection from the HSN reprints. The ones with the white border. I'd add the other reprints in a heartbeat if I could find them at the right price.

    I had no idea they existed at the time of issue...I don't think we got HSN...I got them in a tiny shop on cape cod in 2004. It was gone when we went back the next year.

    Is the 85-86 Celtics team set in white you're talking about the one with this Bird? If it is,these were available in 86. This Celtics set & the Lite All-Stars set were the only Star cards I owned back when i started collecting in 86-87.

    edit: sorry,i posted the wrong link yesterday. Here's the white team set from 85-86
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Star-Company-Boston-Celtics-8-card-Team-Set-Larry-Bird-Danny-Ainge/372171544006?hash=item56a72715c6:g:ZuIAAOSwZVlXo~U9

    Eric

  • BillyKingsleyBillyKingsley Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭

    I think so yes. The link brought up a general search for Star Celtics cards...here's the Bird scanned out of my own collection.

    Billy Kingsley ANA R-3146356 Cardboard History // Numismatic History
  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's not considered a HSN set Bird unless they reprinted the same exact card & color which to my knowledge they didn't do that,only printed same card in some instances but with a different colored border. Like I said above,I owned that white Celtics team set in 87ish.
    Here's a link to a BGS graded copy on ebay. I also checked their pop report and they've graded more white copies than green. I'm pretty sure yours is the real deal.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Star-95W-Larry-Bird-BGS-9-White-Border/253370157441?hash=item3afe09c981:g:i7sAAOSwHwJaXDOT

    Eric

  • BillyKingsleyBillyKingsley Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭

    I've always said that it felt right to me..just like all my other Star cards, having the right paper texture and curve. A former Star employee told me otherwise.
    It also happens to be the only Star team set I have that was not sealed when I got it...figures, right?
    In the end it doesn't matter to me. I'm happy to have them and if they are original or hsn it doesn't matter to me.

    Billy Kingsley ANA R-3146356 Cardboard History // Numismatic History
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All this talk about Star basketball has me going back through my cards these past few days. I lost momentum when the handful of cards I was looking for never really came up for auction. You guys think we have enough interest to start a Star thread? Maybe if it's popular it'll help convince PSA to put their big boy pants on and start grading them.

    Arthur

  • EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

    Added a new one:

    7. Clear plastic peel "protection" on Finest and other "chrome" cards (starting in 1995) - While adding the clear plastic peel off film (starting in 1995) certainly seemed like the perfect idea on paper (after all it helps from keeping the chrome/finest surface from getting scratched, especially before the pack is even opened) there was considerable controversy about whether one should peel them. In fact I even asked this question myself a few years back explaining the situation. At the time it was like you risked ruining the card's value if you peeled it...but the cards do look much better and gorgeous peeled and shiny so as you guys suggested since I'm not going to sell them anyway... ;)

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/6016628

    My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

    http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

    WISHLIST
    1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • ClockworkAngelClockworkAngel Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭

    Another one I remember was when the 1990 Fleer Basketball packs came out, there was a very hot insert set included in only the cello packs called the Rookie Sensations. It was a 10 card set that included David Robinson and Tim Hardaway's most desired Rookie Cards. The Rookie Sensations were a very dark blue mixed in with the regular white bordered cards and the early cello boxes that were released made it very easy to look through the cellophane and see whether there were any Rookie Sensations in the cello packs. Fleer corrected this with the later runs by making the cellophane impossible to search through.

    The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase
    TheClockworkAngelCollection
  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭

    @Estil said:
    Added a new one:

    7. Clear plastic peel "protection" on Finest and other "chrome" cards (starting in 1995) - While adding the clear plastic peel off film (starting in 1995) certainly seemed like the perfect idea on paper (after all it helps from keeping the chrome/finest surface from getting scratched, especially before the pack is even opened) there was considerable controversy about whether one should peel them. In fact I even asked this question myself a few years back explaining the situation. At the time it was like you risked ruining the card's value if you peeled it...but the cards do look much better and gorgeous peeled and shiny so as you guys suggested since I'm not going to sell them anyway... ;)

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/6016628

    Not the same, but still reminds me of the 1980 Topps hockey w/ player names hidden under the scratch-off pucks, I suppose.

  • Who can forget these trainwrecks?

  • Arsenal83Arsenal83 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭

    Even as a teenager when these Shop at Home guys were on, they often gave late night Showtime and Cinemax a run for their money.

    Brian


    Current wantlist:
    1974 Topps baseball factory set, Game used Brian Downing items.
  • sushihotwingssushihotwings Posts: 454 ✭✭✭

    @BillyKingsley said:
    I think so yes. The link brought up a general search for Star Celtics cards...here's the Bird scanned out of my own collection.

    >

    Your Bird is a legit copy, not HSN. Here is a link to another one PWCC is auctioning right now. Card number 95. Love the clean look to the card.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Star-Basketball-Larry-Bird-WHITE-BORDER-95W-BGS-8-NM-MT-PWCC/352328588686?hash=item52086b9d8e:g:pDIAAOSwiM9az8bf

    On the hunt high grade Star Basketball.
  • sushihotwingssushihotwings Posts: 454 ✭✭✭

    @ReggieCleveland said:
    All this talk about Star basketball has me going back through my cards these past few days. I lost momentum when the handful of cards I was looking for never really came up for auction. You guys think we have enough interest to start a Star thread? Maybe if it's popular it'll help convince PSA to put their big boy pants on and start grading them.

    Arthur

    Arthur, it is great to see some other Star basketball fans in the forum. I actually started a thread dedicated to Star linked here which I have not been very active with. I would love to get the thread going again or if you want to start another thread, that would be awesome as well. I have actually emailed with Joe Orlando about the possibility of PSA grading Star again and haven't gotten a 'no' which is a start. lol. If PSA hears from other collectors about the interest, it just might become a reality eventually. That is my hope.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/970970/star-basketball-thread-feel-free-to-share/p1

    On the hunt high grade Star Basketball.
  • EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

    I went ahead and added the Michael Jordan faux-"college rookies" (issued several years after his rookie season doesn't count) to the main list. Did I forget to mention how grossly unfair it is that there are billions of the Jordans and UNC cards from the collegiate collection series, but finding UK sets of this collegiate collection series is next to impossible? :(

    My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

    http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

    WISHLIST
    1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • EstilEstil Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2019 7:33PM

    I just thought of another one...you know how Donruss in 1986 and 1990 respectively named Pete Rose (breaking Ty Cobb's hits record) and Nolan Ryan (for reaching 5000 K's) as "King of Kings"? I wonder if anyone wrote a letter to any of the hobby magazines complaining that it was really blasphemous to call "a mere ballplayer" a "King of Kings", a title belonging only to Jesus?

    My best friend Jamiee (born 7/14/12) and my dearly departed Tweetie (6/15/05 - 8/18/12):

    http://s650.photobucket.com/user/Estil/library

    WISHLIST
    1974 Topps set : 38, 46, 48, 78, 79, 102, 138, 143, 148, 151, 156, 193, 201, 210, 214, 223, 241, 243, 256, 264, 266, 268, 277, 289, 290, 316, 349, 367, 379, 391, 392, 398, 404, 405, 429, 435, 460, 466, 492, 504, 535, 552, 570, 577, 592, 603, 610, 614, 616, 633, 654, 655, 660
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
This discussion has been closed.