1951-1964 Proof Set Purchase and a grading contest
TPRC
Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am not much of a proof guy, particularly more modern proofs, but I took a chance on a set of proofs and we will see how it goes. The proof sets were housed in a velvet covered, silk lined custom made case, with each year in a Capital Plastics holder. Upon inspection, 2 things stood out. First, most if not all of the coins were of high quality, and much nicer than the norm, at least as I graded them initially through the Capital Plastics holders. Second, the 51 looked like a solid cameo. So, I bought the set at under bid. I realize these coins don't generally bring much (except the cameo) and I am not an expert "proof" grader, but I took a chance primarily because I liked the presentation case and for the cameo. Plus, now the varieties are pretty cool.
Upon getting them home, and removing them from the holders for inspection. I found the following of interest, pictured below using with a DSR camera on auto, which I am sending in for grading under regular submission with TrueViews:
- 1951 50c Solid cameo-looks nicer than picture below.
- 1952 50c High grade with a couple of modest reverse spots and a single tiny hairline (doesn't show on photo) from Franklin's nose almost to rim.
- 1952 25c Superbird ( FS-25-1952-901) without (I believe) recut tail feathers and an unfortunate spot on the top of cheekbone that is partially obscured by the flash.
- 1956 25c Semi-cameo gouged tail feather reverse ( FS-25-1956-701) and high grade.
- 1953 10c nothing special but very high grade, nicely toned, and nearly flawless.
- 1956 10c nothing special but very high grade, nearly flawless deep cameo obverse and a lesser grade non-cameo reverse.
- 1951 1c with some hairlines and spots, but also FS 1c 021.35 DDO (Breen 2199).
Guess the grades. The closest to the actual grades (as judged by me alone) will get a prize of 4 silver Washington quarters with minor die breaks, die doubling or possible minor repunched mintmarks, a 1934 AU Dime with some strike doubling at the date, several other non-silver quarters and cents with minor cracking, etc., and a 1976 clipped planchet Eisenhower in AU. These coins were a purchasing mistake by me and have been sitting around here forever.
For the record, my mostly uneducated, unabashed, high grade hope guesses are as follows:
- Pr 66 Cam( I hope)
- Pr 66
- Pr 65
- Pr 67
- Pr 69
- Pr 69
- Pr 64R
I would be curious to know also what the proof guys think, especially SanctionII.
Tom
Comments
I don't like grading from single pics but I'll give an opinion
1. 64 cam, shot dcam
2. 65
3. 65
4. 65
5. 66
6. 64
7. 64RB
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
64 cam
65
65
66
66
65
64 rb
Proof grading is extremely tough for me but here’s my guess.
Only a guess from the photos, but almost every coin looks wiped. Hope I'm wrong.
I agree with Roger. If those photos are out of the plastic, you've got hairline problems on most of them. The dimes look the most problem free. The cent looks horribly scrubbed.
Sorry, just my two cents.
1.) 64Cameo.
2.) 64.
3.) 65 Superbird.
4.) 65.
5.) 67.
6.) 66+.
7.) 64RB.
.
I'm pretty sure you're both wrong but we'll see. I do know how to grade, having taken the ANA's grading and advanced grading classes many times. Still, I originally passed on the deal because I wasn't sure of the hairlines on the '51, particularly on Franklin's face and on the Liberty Bell. Proofs are tough to grade for me and the graders hate hairlines. I researched '51 cameo 50c pieces and found several with similar features. A former professional grader looked at it in-hand and said "that's what they all look like" and graded it 65 cam. So, I concluded that they were die polish lines and bought it. Same with the lines on devices of the '52-they are die polish lines, IMO. The photos were taken out of the plastic. The flash tends to emphasize the hairlines and makes the '51 look slightly more cameo than it is. But you may be right. We'll see. The quarters and dimes are without hairlines. Some of the cents have spots and as a group the cents were the lowest quality. The cent shown has spots and was wiped.
I know this is a shot in the dark for everyone, especially with my photography, but I was excited to find the cherrypicker varieties as well. And for under $1200 for the full set, I figured my downside was limited. In any event, it will take a while to get these grades back so we shall see. Thanks for the opinions.
Tom
I agree with the nice purchase without much downside.
1- 64CAM
2- 66
3- 67 FS-901
4- 67 FS-701
5- 67
6- 65
7- 64RB FS-101
I think you are right on the 52 half - those circular swirl marks on the portrait - see those a lot on 50-52 proofs. But looks like there are some extra hairlines around frank’s neck as well as under the bell on the reverse.
On the other hand the hairlines on the fields of the 51 are from a wipe as well as those on the cent and on the 56 dime at the top of torch.
JMO
You are probably correct. My initial grade on the 56 dime was PF 69 dcam obv/PF 67 rev, but I settled on an optimistic PF69 overall. The 51 and 52 halves have a few whispy hairlines in the fields. I'm most concerned with potential hairlines in the devices of the 51.
Tom
The 1951 half is the star of the coins shown by the OP, followed, IMO, by the 1953 dime. They have the best two sided eye appeal.
From the photos the 1951 half has mirrored fields (slightly impaired and not deep watery black), some attractive rim toning and superbly frosted devices. To me it is a Cameo and possibly a DCAM. The central devices on both sides show die polishing lines, indicating the coin was struck from repolshed dies. Unfortunately both the obverse and reverse fields show what appear to be numerous hairlines which would limit the grade. I would expect a grade of not more than 64.
The 1953 dime has attractive toning
on both sides and would look great in a toned 1953 proof set.
The 1952 half, from the photo, apoears to have shallow fields which limits the appeal of the coin to me. It also appears to have been struck from repolished dies.
For $1,200.00, I think you likely will do ok, mainly due to the 1951 half dollar.
I would look at all coins in all 14 sets, keep the coins from the sets that are special (Cameos, varieties, including the 52 Superbird quarter, toners and 67 or higher grades). Set those coins aside and replace them in the sets with common examples of the same coins. Then resell the 14 sets to recoup most of your $1,200.00 (and cost of replacement coins if you do not have them in your inventory).
Any remaining money you have tied up in the coins you hold back will be modest and you can recoup that and hopefully more when you liquidate your good stuff.
Until then enjoy the cherries you picked for modest money.
Yup a super bird,
1.)PR 65/6Cameo.
2.) PR 65.
3.) PR 65 Super bird.
4.)PR 65.
5.) PR 66.
6.) PR 66+.
7.) PR 64RB. Or spot remover, Gen holder hard to tell by them pic.
Hoard the keys.
Your purchase of these 14 sets (containing a number of different types of cherries) is similar to a purchase of numerous proof sets last fall. I picked some really great coins including hard to find cameos from the 50s and 5 Type 1 1956 half dollars. Quite fun.
Super fun. Super Bird. Super 51
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Your downside is limited, although modern proof coins out of OGP are a pretty tough sell.
You have the coins in hand, I'm just looking at pictures. But, what exactly are all those horizontal lines through the "ONE" and at the base of the reverse?
IF those are hairlines, same with the 51 half, I would not expect those coins to straight grade.
Both appear to be hairlines, though they are very faint on the half and I didn't even see them under a glass until I took the photos, which may say more about my grading skills than about the grade of the coin. We'll see.
Tom
ttt
Grades are due soon, so if anyone else cares to offer grade opinions, please feel free. I'll post a winner Friday nite.
Tom
If you don't mind me asking, and you don't mind sharing, where'd you find these? Nothing specific, eBay? Show? Coin shop? Just curious.
And, a great looking pick up!
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Nice coins, but the hairlines will limit the grade... I think the 51 half will CAM....Cheers, RickO
This looks like a fun group...my opinions as to grades, please note I read the OP and nothing else before giving my grade opinions.
I would not submit the 52 half, 52 quarter, and 56 quarter without a dip to attempt to remove the spots. I would also remove the haze from the 53 dime with MS70 before submitting. I wouldn't submit the 56 dime. For the cent, I'd have to give the reverse a closer look to make sure the areas above one and below America haven't been harshly cleaned as they appear in the photo.
Now I'll go back and read the rest of the thread and offer comments.
Glad you bumped it to the top @TPRC , I was in the middle of tax season when this was first posted so glad I got a 2nd chance. I didn't notice the date of the OP before I gave my grade opinions.
I want to add the qualifier that if a few of these are dipped to remove the spots, my grade opinion may change. From my recent experience, anything with spots won't go over 66...period. After reading through the opinions of others and reevaluating my grades in that context, the only change I contemplated was whether to bump my grade on the 1953 dime for the color. Without the haze, it's a slam dunk 67, but I'll change my guess to 66+ with the haze.
(For the record, the bragging rights of winning this exercise would be the most valuable reward.)
Not at all. I picked it up at a local shop near me and I know the dealer well. I attribute and price lots of coins for him and he gives me an early shot at a items I really like, though this group was available to anyone who walked in at the price I paid. He just wanted to move it out and he actually recommended against me buying it. Still, I am there so often, I don't think it was available for more than a couple of days.
Tom
I think your 1951 Cent is a DDO. Not that its worth a lot in that grade, but it is what it is.
WS
varietyvista.com/01a%20LC%20Doubled%20Dies%20Vol%201/1951PDDO001.htm
I'm frightened to think how many of these "minor" varieties I've passed over in my years of hunting.
Here are the grades, in slightly different order. I'll name a winner soon, based upon my own grading scale which gives heavy weight to the money coin-the 51 50c. In truth, the grades were not far from my realistic expectations, except that I really did think the 51 50c would 65 Cam and I also thought the 53 10c would 69. Overall, not bad. Not exactly a "score," but not too shabby. Thank you for participating.
1 1 35352089 38146 1951 1C DDO FS-101 (FS-021.35), RD PR64RD USA
2 1 35352090 5228 1953 10C PR68 USA
3 1 35352091 5231 1956 10C PR68+ USA
4 1 35352092 144443 1952 25C "Superbird" FS-901 PR66 USA
5 1 35352093 507429 1956 25C Rev Die Gouge FS-701 PR67 USA
6 1 35352094 86692 1951 50C, CA PR64CA USA
Tom
Tom,
I think you did well.
Congrats, Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
the "hairlines" seen on these coins are normal and usually present from 1950-1954. they are a result of the packaging and not from being wiped as others have asserted. the packaging was prone to drying and cracking and the staple typically rusted and could result in dust entering the pouches. it only gets worse for the coins as time passes and they continue to be stored in the cherished "original packaging" and opened to look at.
I know everyone likes the original concept, but if you like the coins and want to protect them long term than that is the worst possible choice. I advise collectors to carefully remove the coins from the packaging and place in virgin Capital Plastic holders. you can save all the pouches, staple and box for posterity, just don't keep the coins like that, it is counter-productive.
The 68's on those two dimes surprises me most...I think your varieties will bail out the submission.