An interesting 1853 United States Assay Office of Gold $20. Struck Copy of K-18

coinsarefun

I won this in the Stacks auction
and it arrived today. It weighs 17.6 gram/ The edge is reeded and the reverse seems to be well struck compared to the obverse. The lines that you see on the obverse is raised and all the details are there but some are very light.
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I have never seen a copy struck in copper of the Assay $20 before, may not mean much but I do kinda get around.
If anyone can give me some additional information as to who may have struck this copy and when.
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I did speak to one of the members here and he gave me an opinion but I don't want to say yet so
everyone can look at it without a predetermined opinion.
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It did come with the tag from Early American Numismatic Auctions, Inc.'s sale of December 2, 1995, lot 782.
I did an online search but cannot find this one. Maybe someone here may have it or know how I can obtain it.
I would love to find out who did it and if there are any others out there.
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If you want Stacks images click on the link at the top. Below are my images, I hope you can click on them to see the full size.
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MikeInFL

Neat find! As for your questions, I have no idea, but here's a bump to the top in hopes someone can help....Mike

ricko

Nice piece Stef.... Cannot help... but you do come up with some unique items.... Thanks for showing us. Cheers, RickO

coinsarefun

Thanks @ricko for the nice comment. I think I have found some very cool information just waiting to hear back
to confirm my suspicions, then I will post it.

Insider2

I read the part about "Struck Copy."

Show us the edge. It looks like a crude cast; however, the raised lines in the field are generally not found on casts. They are more often seen (along with the irregular bumps) on electrotypes. Even in the 1960's the die struck counterfeits were better than this and they also looked cast.

Anyway, not a mint product. Additionally, the auction house would have said if it was an electrotype and it would have been sharper and worth more money IMO. Nevertheless, it is a fun piece and I wish it were mine.

CaptHenway

Can somebody please post pictures of one of the John Ford-linked USAOG gold counterfeits for comparison?
TD

Regulated

I'm not in the office right now, so I had to scavenge this online.

coinsarefun

@CaptHenway said:
Can somebody please post pictures of one of the John Ford-linked USAOG gold counterfeits for comparison?
TD

I have an article that I found that explains the attempt at copper patterns. The article mentions 2. I’m not sure if mine is the other or if there are more.

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The coin below, left is one from the article and mine is below, right.
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Insider2

Neat research. Apparently there are several of these things around. IMO, It does not look like "spark-erosion dies" were used to strike it.

MsMorrisine

Collars are 3rd dies
Reed count can change without changing the hammer and anvil dies.

coinsarefun

What I really need is ion someone has the book John J. Ford, Jr. and "The Franklin Hoard"
to see if they have anything regarding the attempt at making pattern coins. In the article above he states that the residing and copper commonly used for patterns is what these are struck on.
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If you want to see the reeding @Insider2 , see below.
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CaptHenway

Wow! Great background pictures!

Insider2

Looks die struck, thanks.

Regulated

The piece in the SPPN article was definitely die struck. While the article mentions copper patterns being struck at the mint, the intention of the article was not to suggest that anyone who examined the pictured coin in person ever believed that the copper USAOG $20 was genuine, or a Mint product.

Timbuk3

Nice, congratulations !!!

Regulated

Since we are on the subject of USAOG forgeries, here's a new Truview of the genuine (PCGS MS64 and undergraded) coin that the people supplying Ford copied to make the fake/prooflike Assay $20s:

coinsarefun

@Regulated said:
The piece in the SPPN article was definitely die struck. While the article mentions copper patterns being struck at the mint, the intention of the article was not to suggest that anyone who examined the pictured coin in person ever believed that the copper USAOG $20 was genuine, or a Mint product.

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I would hope no one interpreted that from the article. This is really cool and interesting stuff.
I guess I need to spring for the book and read more about the Franklin Hoard since this piece is an
intruduction to all the ongoings back then
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Thanks for posting the original true view

coinsarefun

@MsMorrisine said:
Collars are 3rd dies
Reed count can change without changing the hammer and anvil dies.

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If this is true then my coin is copied from the original.

Regulated

Just for fun, this is the proof Assay $20 struck at the US Mint in 1858:

LanceNewmanOCC

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thanks for a good read, nice coin, images and research.
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coinsarefun

@Regulated said:
Just for fun, this is the proof Assay $20 struck at the US Mint in 1858:

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This coin is phenomenal