High Grade Moderns - My take
Outhaul
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Aside from the fact that I am not a collector of moderns, is anyone else equally unimpressed when one gets the high marks?
With manufacturing and packaging technology as it is these days, these are far more common. I see so many MS-69 and MS-70 grades in moderns that I don't even give them a second look.
Now, an MS-70 classic would certainly impress me, even anything above 66 would do so.
What say you all? Just curious. My intentions here are certainly not to start a rumble.
Cheers
Bob
1
Comments
One has to be astute, indeed, to tell the difference between a 69 and a 70. I'll accept the assertion that such a difference exists and is identifiable to the practiced certification service grader. But it reminds me of the fanaticism of the varieties collector: you REALLY have to be interested to find the indicators.
Now, I get it that people like perfection. But for many, the only visible proof of such a state of heavenly bliss is on the slab.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Moderns or classics it just depends on what people choose to collect. I have lots of customers that like super high grade moderns. I've seen moderns in me 69 or 70 slabs that should definitely not be but then again I've seen Morgan's or classics that are no where near there grade assigned.
HAPPY COLLECTING
One problem with moderns is that there is no way to tell what toll the passage of time will take 0n them, either due to conditions present at the moment of minting or environmental conditions in the years afterward. This more than anything is enough to scare me away from paying high premiums for modern issues in perfect grades (that, and the fact that it is mostly nonsense).
It would follow that with the super high mintages of modern coins that condition would be the only logical way to collect them.
Condition rarities are no joke. The spotting, nicks and dings, and myriad other imperfections make clean, unspotted and unmarked coins really scarce.
The statement made by JBK is true. Investment wise, there is a risk to high grade moderns. Money aside, I would collect them for what they are: Rare and true jewels that shine out in the darkness.
Just my opinion, folks.
Pete
If you have to rely on someone's "opinion" as to an ultra-high grade coin for it to have any value ... you are treading in dangerous waters.
the SP-70'S are definitely much more common then the regular strike 70's
I’ve noticed several of these threads grouping all high grade modern coins together. I hope no one takes offense, but doing so is the same as saying that all Morgan dollars are easily found in ms68 just because you’ve seen plenty of 81s’s. It just sounds ignorant. The difference of course is that there are plenty of modern coins in 69 and 70, however if you take some time to study a little you’ll find that plenty of moderns are very difficult to find in high grade.
A dealer on CCE once posted that he’s looking for a ms70 Kennedy half dollar “nothing rare, just something for a small customer”. I wrote the dealer saying that if he found one I’d give him $10,000. He still hasn’t found one....
This just shows how uneducated even some dealers are about moderns. If you just put some time into research and buy moderns that are actually rare, it can be extremely rewarding both financially and enjoyment wise.
Interesting feedback from people....
I must admit that when the OP mentioned "moderns" and spoke of all the 69 and 70 grades, my mind went to commems and collector coins (SEs, proof sets, etc.). But, if you look at all moderns - including circulation strikes - then I do see that for many issues condition rarities are a legitimate focus.
The 69/70 grades are absolutely common in special strike moderns. You should expect those coins to grade that way. These would be your enhanced strike coins, proof coins, commemoratives, etc.
The other sector of modern coins is your business strike coins. People always argue about how many of these coins are minted and how you should be able to just grab a 69 from a roll or mint set. That's just wrong.
Even the coins directly from the mint are demolished by the minting process. The majority of coins have nicks/dings/scratches/spotting/etc. MS66 and below are extremely common. MS67 can be common depending on the coin. MS68's are rare. MS69's are almost unheard of (with few exceptions), and unless I'm mistaken, they won't give these coins (Cents, nickels, dimes, quarters, halves, dollars) an MS70 grade.
So for the OP, no there's nothing particularly rare/impressive about 69/70 grades on special issue moderns.
My take: It's a hobby! It's your money! Do what you want with it!!
No doubt, I think some who pooh-pooh modern condition rarities sometimes really don't have a handle on how rare they REALLY are. I'm not talking special strike, "created for collectors" coins. The true circulation strikes are often as rare as the price leads one to believe. (The risk is that over time, that rarity can only fall...so tread lightly).
As for me? For my type set, (which I do want to include modern types), I'm happy with an MS-67. I wait for one that LOOKS good...which probably ends up being a mistake that someone thought was a 69. But they're often relatively cheap, and represent the type just fine for me.
But I see no reason to question those who strive for the "best of the best".
Just curious. When you are talking about moderns, are you talking about a certain date cutoff between classics and so called moderns? Or does it refer to a change in the minting process, I.e., better technology, better minting presses, etc that could result in a better minted coin. I guess I could use the analogy between a 1957 Chevy and a 2017 Chevy. No comparison between fit and finish, drivability, fuel mileage etc. all due to technology.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
Interesting analogy
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Okay, please allow me to clarify my most embarrassing omission:
I was, indeed, referring to special strikes...oops.
Pass the crow, please.
Cheers
Bob
No crow eating necessary, just a good example of how different people can read the same thing and have a different understanding. So, the more limited the universe of options to take away from the question, the more focused the result.
Well of moderns, I sure would be quite impressed if I could ever get an America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver bullion coin in MS70DM graded, and I bet it would look amazing. Of 50,532 MSDM coins of this series only 2 have ever been graded MS70DM. Clearly not very common.
Also a 1982-D Washington 50 cent silver commemorative with 4,408 graded and NONE have ever really been graded a true PCGS MS70.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
@Outhaul said:
Okay, please allow me to clarify my most embarrassing omission:
I was, indeed, referring to special strikes...oops.
Pass the crow, please.
I love moderns
High grades for the particular collector's interest means something and maybe not be for others. We collect what pleases us and opinion varies depending on which perspective you are coming from.....
There is not much thrill in it when there are some types that have more MS70's graded than 69's. I think it depends on how modern you want to refer to. I think of modern as 1965 to current, but obviously there have been significant improvements in manufacturing, quality control, and handling since that time. The 70 grade is not quite so common for the earlier era moderns. Many of the issues made within say the last ten years are as likely or more likely to be found with the 70 grade. Personally I would rather have a modern commemorative, silver eagle, or what ever in the original government packaging if it was issued that way.
I used to malign top grade moderns until wondercoin educated me on their virtues.
If it is NOT a 70 I do not buy it! If its a NGC I don't buy it. PCGS I buy. NO 69's.
@Gluggo said:
off the subject....Have you seen MS70 ANAC on Dan Carr's?
There is interest and value in any segment of the coin hobby.... MS70 on moderns - outside of special strikes - does indeed command premiums - In that segment of the market. In fact, I was surprised to see the values on high MS Kennedy's with CAM/DCAM designations. For those who sell coins, check them out... and look for them.... like finding nuggets in the desert (yes, I have done that). Cheers, RickO