2000 VIP SACAGAWEA DOLLAR

FunwithMPL

Been trying to find information on the this dollar can anyone help?

MWallace

http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page22.html

FunwithMPL

MWallace, Yes I have seen that but that is the only place. It just is very funny to me that it is the only place to have any information about it. None of my dealer's have never heard anything about then.

ricko

I wonder if they had the detailed tail feathers like the Cheerios Sacs.....That would be cool...Cheers, RickO

JBK

@FunwithMPL said:
MWallace, Yes I have seen that but that is the only place. It just is very funny to me that it is the only place to have any information about it. None of my dealer's have never heard anything about then.

That is the only place you need to see it. There is info on there that you will never find anywhere else. That site is THE authority on small dollars.

Rumor has it that the person who runs that site makes an appearance on this forum now and then.

Zoins

Do any TPGs recognize VIP strikes?

FunwithMPL

I have a problem with only one site that talks about the VIP dollars. And no TPGs recognize then also.

Zoins

If several hundred people attended, including collectors, I'm hoping other people would talk about it. In other cases, it's been nice when other members on the forums have corroborated the press with their own experiences.

Zoins

@Fancycashcom says they had 12 of these, but only have one left, a MS68, are selling it for $2,999.99.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/848899/fs-some-of-the-rarest-sacagaweas-known-vip-first-strike-sac-ms-68-signed-1st-day-sac-cover-b

One VIP First Strike MS-68 left...POP 3 with none higher.

First strike ceremonies for our country's New One Dollar Coin, The "Golden Dollar" were held at the Philadelphia Mint on November 18, 1999. The "VIPs", consisted of Senators, House Representatives, Mint Officials, Engravers, Designers, Dignitaries, Well-Connected Collectors and A Lucky Few Other Invited Guests. The highlight was of course the Ceremonial Striking of the First 2000-P Sacagawea Dollars. This was done personally by many of the VIP attendees, hence the name "VIP First Strikes". Similar to the coins presented to Ms. Goodacre, these coins were struck using specially prepared dies and planchets and on a press that was calibrated to strike medals and coins for uncirculated mint sets. This resulted in a much higher relief of the designs on the finished coins due to the higher pressure and slower striking speed. Though the US Mint has not verified the actual number of coins struck at the ceremony, it is widely known and accepted that there were only between 500-600 struck.
[...]
Out of the 12 we had originally, we sold off all but 1. For such rarities, value is only determined by what one seller and one buyer agree upon on any given day, but I can tell you that the previous coins all sold at the $3000+ level and those buyers were happy to get the chance, period!

Zoins

Here's some information from Phil Barnhart:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.collecting.coins/i8nL3UB5mKU

This auction is for the VIP Sacagawea struck by James Benfield, the late head of the Coin Coalition and the father of the Sacagawea dollar. These "first strikes" were done on a special press at a ceremony held at the Philadelphia Mint on November 18, 1999. Less than 600 strikes were made, and it appears that the dies were specially prepared.

Zoins

They are recognized by, minimally, ICG and SEGS:

https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=274799

Zoins

@FunwithMPL said:
I have a problem with only one site that talks about the VIP dollars. And no TPGs recognize then also.

Seems like multiple people are talking about these and we have photos of recognition from two TPGs.

JBK

I am not sure how or why a TPG would "recognize" this coin. It is apparently a normal business strike in special packaging. It is not sealed, so any other coin could be substituted. The value is in the provenance and packaging. A TPG has no role in this scenario.

It is a very limited and rarely encountered item. It should be no surprise that a coin dealer would not be aware of it. If you do not trust the referenced website then write to the US Mint for some corroboration.

If your dollar comes with the packaging and paperwork as pictured on the website, then no further details should be necessary. You would have the full story already.

To amend following @Zoins post: if they can be identified as a separate variety then perhaps they will be slabbed as such. And, of course, they can always be stabbed as normal coins for grade . If a lower tier TPG mentions the VIP connection then all the better.

FunwithMPL

Made your point to of the best graders in the hobby.

thank you

Zoins

@JBK said:
I am not sure how or why a TPG would "recognize" this coin. It is apparently a normal business strike in special packaging. It is not sealed, so any other coin could be substituted. The value is in the provenance and packaging. A TPG has no role in this scenario.

These are not normal business strikes. Here's a description from SmallDollars.com by @MWallace:

http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page22.html

These coins were struck using specially prepared dies and planchets. They exhibit a duller satiny finish versus the brighter appearance on circulation strikes. They were also struck on a press that was calibrated to strike medals and coins for uncirculated mint sets, i.e. struck at a slower speed and higher pressure to bring up the relief of the designs.

Zoins

@FunwithMPL said:
Made your point to of the best graders in the hobby.

thank you

Good luck. It would be great to have our hosts recognize these, especially if they got the coveted First Strike designation, which you should ask for

JBK

@Zoins said:

@JBK said:
I am not sure how or why a TPG would "recognize" this coin. It is apparently a normal business strike in special packaging. It is not sealed, so any other coin could be substituted. The value is in the provenance and packaging. A TPG has no role in this scenario.

These are not normal business strikes. Here's a description from SmallDollars.com by @MWallace:

http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page22.html

These coins were struck using specially prepared dies and planchets. They exhibit a duller satiny finish versus the brighter appearance on circulation strikes. They were also struck on a press that was calibrated to strike medals and coins for uncirculated mint sets, i.e. struck at a slower speed and higher pressure to bring up the relief of the designs.

Thx for all the addl details. I still wonder if they are independently identifiable as VIP strikes vs. mint set or other unusual business strikes, but all of your posts give us the relevent background in any case.

Back when the Sacs first came out I did some roll searching and found one that had a different, almost matte finish. I held onto it and when I come across it I may ask for opinions.

FunwithMPL

I have a friend that has a VIP dollar with the box and papers the problem I told him is no ever heard of it. Only on the web site smalldollars. I just wish we had a news article or some thing we could refer to for him. I think that would be even more helpful. And I think the box and paper work would be worth more than the dollar itself.

FunwithMPL

Thanks for all of the input

JBK

@FunwithMPL said:
And think the box and paper work would be worth more than the dollar itself.

In some cases, yes, but not here. The packaging and paperwork are what help authenticate the coin, which has the value. You could argue that you lose the value without them, so in that regard they do add the value.

Zoins

@FunwithMPL said:
I just wish we had a news article or some thing we could refer to for him. I think that would be even more helpful.

See this article from 1999 for more information. Posting here due to historical importance, since many online articles seem to disappear over time.

http://www.numismaticnews.net/december-7-1999

Dollar rolls off press
By David L. Ganz
December 7, 1999

The Mint brought its circulating coin inventory into the 21st century 42 days early when, at 5 p.m. on the evening of Nov. 18, it opened the Philadelphia Mint to a select group of witnesses who not only watched the first golden colored Sacagawea dollar coins being struck, but were permitted to step up to the presses and strike their own memento.

Souvenirs of the event were then turned over to two members of the special Mint Police who carefully placed a new Sacagawea dollar bearing a year 200 date into a manila envelope onto which the minter’s name and address were hand written in ink. They will all be mailed after Jan. 1 to those participating in the historic venture.

About 250 individuals received invitations offering them the opportunity to attend the special ceremony a half hour after the Mint usually closes to the general public. Those attending had to pass security clearance by providing their Social Security number, date and place of birth, and other pertinent information.

Mint Director Philip N. Diehl acted as host. Also attending, striking coins, and speaking to the assembles group were Mary Ellen Withrow, treasurer of the United States; Glenna Goodacre, the sculptor who brought Sacagawea to life; Thomas Rogers, the sculptor whose reverse soaring eagle gives vitality to the flip side of the coin; and Randy’L He-dow Teton, the Shoshone Indian college student used as a live model by Goodacre in her task.

Among the additional honored guests were the entire family of Teton and Saundra Todd, a direct descendant of Sacagawea. In an interview at the Mint, not far from the site of the striking, she revealed her descent through her great-great-grandfather. She still lives in Idaho, not far from where Sacagawea is thought to have spent her last years.

The first strike ceremony took place in the lobby of the Philadelphia Mint. It provides an intimate setting with good security.

Traditional coining presses were not used, either. The HME hydraulic press, giving off 95.4 tons of pressure on a single strike, resulting in a high relief strike that looked altogether pleasing not only to Diehl, Withrow, Goodacre, Rogers and Teton, but to the audience as well.

MWallace

@FunwithMPL said:
I have a friend that has a VIP dollar with the box and papers the problem I told him is no ever heard of it. Only on the web site smalldollars. I just wish we had a news article or some thing we could refer to for him. I think that would be even more helpful. And I think the box and paper work would be worth more than the dollar itself.

Coin World did an article on the ceremony and the coins at the time. I may have it somewhere. William Gibbs wrote the article. I bought the example that he got personally from the first strike ceremony.

1Bufffan

I have one of these coins in Question along with a first day encapsulated "low serial number" Glenna presentation piece #2043 and a millennium set and I can tell you that when you put them side by side they are Truly Different in appearance the VIP Strike has a much wider rim than a regular Philadelphia struck Sacagawea maybe because of the low speed and higher pressure press and the surface with the light matte finish, I will just have to see what Interest there will be for these coins.

Fancycashcom

When you view each of these "special" strikes side by side you can easily see their differences and special qualities, especially from the regular strikes.

I was the first person to coin the term VIP First Strike Sacs and to have them slabbed. I acquired 2 more in raw state and when I get around to it, will have them slabbed too, unless I sell them raw.

Fun stuff!

koynekwest

@JBK said:

@Zoins said:

@JBK said:
I am not sure how or why a TPG would "recognize" this coin. It is apparently a normal business strike in special packaging. It is not sealed, so any other coin could be substituted. The value is in the provenance and packaging. A TPG has no role in this scenario.

These are not normal business strikes. Here's a description from SmallDollars.com by @MWallace:

http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page22.html

These coins were struck using specially prepared dies and planchets. They exhibit a duller satiny finish versus the brighter appearance on circulation strikes. They were also struck on a press that was calibrated to strike medals and coins for uncirculated mint sets, i.e. struck at a slower speed and higher pressure to bring up the relief of the designs.

Thx for all the addl details. I still wonder if they are independently identifiable as VIP strikes vs. mint set or other unusual business strikes, but all of your posts give us the relevent background in any case.

Back when the Sacs first came out I did some roll searching and found one that had a different, almost matte finish. I held onto it and when I come across it I may ask for opinions.

I, too, have a few that show a satiny strike. I was able to locate three different types of surface on the 2000 P and D when they were first issued-what I call the coarse grain satin, a fine grain satin , and prooflike in addition to the "regular surfaces. The two satins are quite dull, especially the coarse grain one.

FunwithMPL

So what are those strikes? I don't think that VIP is the proper term to use. And perhaps that is why any of the good grading company's won't grade them as VIP strikes. I had a friend try with a good grader to get his slab it came back not in a slab with a note company does not slab event coins.

1Bufffan

OK let me get this straight, The Mint comes up with this Idea to get a new Series of "Golden Dollars" started so they make up some in real gold to send into space, then General Mills thinks that they can package 5,000 plus into cereal boxes, Walmart gets onboard and says that they will give them out as change for a dollar. The Mint in the mean time gives Glenna Goodacre 5000 of these for being the designer for the Obverse, and still spends over 140 Million dollars to promote them, starting off with so they say with a First Strike ceremony in Philadelphia at the US Mint. in November of 1999, But the coins for space and General Mills were already made because of the "Tail Feather" then the Glenna ones are made and given to her without the "TF" reverse but then they say about the rinse put on to help discolor, so now we have another mix put into the Batch. Coor's Brewing even made up some with a sticker, they don't remember how many, to give out to employees to spend around town to see how they would distribute and be spent. Then comes the Millennium strikes. Golden Dollars are then produced buy the Millions then on into the Presidential Series with Many more million so many they have to Build extra storage space just house them why not just dump them and say start spending them. We as collectors should just Clean out and dump All the loose change we have and give the people at the mint some time off, because they won't have to produce anything for awhile.

CoinDude253

I have one of these VIP issues minus the outer cardboard sleeve. What would the approximate value be without it?

joeykoins

Wow! Welcome to the forum. If it's true and you do have one of these elite coins, what a fantastic opening post to our forum. Pics please? Pretty cool and RARE coin!
As to value? I would start at $3000.

CoinDude253

I’ve had it for 10years or so.. I collect actual silver dollars.. Doesn’t really fit in with my nice Morgan’s, Peace, and silver Eagles 🤣

CoinDude253

And thank you for the welcome to the forum Joey! 😁

ChrisH821

@CoinDude253 said:
I’ve had it for 10years or so.. I collect actual silver dollars.. Doesn’t really fit in with my nice Morgan’s, Peace, and silver Eagles 🤣

Interesting. @MWallace can probably help you

CoinDude253

I’m debating selling this and investing in some silver.. What would be the best way to do that? eBay?

1Bufffan

I also have one but no one wants to recognize it as a " VIP" First strike ceremony coin! so in the original packing it will stay, it would be nice but does not fit into any "Registry Set" criteria so I guess that's why no one will "Slab" it as such!! only 600 were made and I think it is Special!

CoinDude253

Any interest from anyone here, before I throw it on eBay ? 😁

1Bufffan

I see there is one on the "Bay" now in an Anacs holder that makes one graded from ICG one from SEGS and now one from Anacs, why then does are Host and Ngc not recognize this as a special coin to be labeled as such???!!! there is plenty of articles written about this it just unsets me that I cannot get mine labeled as one of the 600 coins produced at the ceremony.

dcarr

@1Bufffan said:
I see there is one on the "Bay" now in an Anacs holder that makes one graded from ICG one from SEGS and now one from Anacs, why then does are Host and Ngc not recognize this as a special coin to be labeled as such???!!! there is plenty of articles written about this it just unsets me that I cannot get mine labeled as one of the 600 coins produced at the ceremony.

Well, you could get yours labeled as such ... by ANACS.
I think that would be sufficient for a lot of potential buyers.
The current eBay listing may indicate if that is true or not.

JBK

@1Bufffan said:
I see there is one on the "Bay" now in an Anacs holder that makes one graded from ICG one from SEGS and now one from Anacs, why then does are Host and Ngc not recognize this as a special coin to be labeled as such???!!! there is plenty of articles written about this it just unsets me that I cannot get mine labeled as one of the 600 coins produced at the ceremony.

How can you prove yours is one of them? The capsule can easily be opened and a coin swapped out. If there are no specific die markers or surface characteristic then it would just be another Sac $ once removed from the capsule.

I have no doubt that yours is legit, but the major TPGs need to be 100% sure before they put their name on that slab.

CoinDude253

Finally did it.... Listed it on the bay

JBK

@CoinDude253 said:
Finally did it.... Listed it on the bay

Keep us posted. I will be interested in what it goes for.

Good luck.

CoinDude253

So far had an offer of 10.00 🙄🤣 I Counter offered at 3500.