Say hello to Tyrod Taylor and Jarvis Landry!!!

keets

Well, the Cleveland Browns are finally starting to do things my way. They used some salary cap/late picks to get a better than average WR and a QB that shows promise, is young and has a little NFL experience. Taylor isn't the guy I would have gone after and the move comes a few years too late, but at least the Team has changed their thought process. Now they have the No. 1 overall in the Draft and will probably take Saquon Barkley. Hopefully they won't rush him to start if he's their pick.

Al H.

stevek

Very sorry to say, but for the type of team the Cleveland Browns are, and we all know what they are, acquiring those two players is not the right strategy at this time for long term success.

For a team that is mired in losing, the first thing to do is build the offensive and defensive line, then ya add on play scorers, you don't add them first. But the Browns keep making the same mistakes season after season.

Yes, perhaps this may help them sell a few tickets, but that's about it.

They actually had the right idea with Johnny Manziel a few seasons ago, but it was obvious even at the time, that they chose the wrong QB.

I'm not that familiar with the Cleveland team players, but in their situation which is dire...they should be thinking about two positions for the first pick in the draft and two positions only...QB or left tackle. I realize Barkley is good, perhaps great, but a running back is NOT the right first pick choice for them at this time. With their second pick, not duplicating the first pick position, they should chose a QB, left tackle or right tackle.

In any event, they will likely choose Barkley, and I hope it all works out for ya. As we all know, you never can be 100% sure with any player in the NFL draft.

erikthredd

@stevek said:
Very sorry to say, but for the type of team the Cleveland Browns are, and we all know what they are, acquiring those two players is not the right strategy at this time for long term success.

No i think these are good moves just for the stability they would bring to the offense. Landry is a legit 100/1000 WR and Taylor gives them a competent QB to start while hopefully whichever QB they draft gets to sit and watch in his first year or two. Adding these two players didn't turn the Browns into a top 5 offense but both their passing & rushing game got better overnight. Not to mention they still own five picks in the 1st two rounds and a boatload of salary cap space.

Also good move by Philly dealing for Bennett. He was a great addition to their DL rotation. I'm hoping NE finds a way to convince Richard Sherman into coming to the Pats this season.

keets

Steve, if you have been paying any attention to what I post about the Browns(apparently you haven't) I said for quite a while that they should use salary cap and draft picks to do what you said, build the OL/DL. after that, my main rant is their insistence on always trying to draft a QB. they made progress in the past 1-2 years with the DL and will probably draft lineman this year.

since you admittedly are "not that familiar with the Cleveland team players" you are forgiven. also, they need to quit with the NFL obsession of insisting on using that pick on a QB. if you were familiar with the Team you would know that the problems run deeper than a QB, it is all about management sticking with a HC for more that two years and having a blueprint of some kind to build the Team.

if they followed Pittsburgh they would be better off and improve quickly. and no, you can't use "right idea" and Johnny Manziel in the same sentence and expect not to be laughed at.

keets

I think Sherman could help New England and Belichick might be the only HC who can get him to STFU, since his mouth is a liability.

erikthredd

@keets said:
I think Sherman could help New England and Belichick might be the only HC who can get him to STFU, since his mouth is a liability.

Yeah i think that might be the biggest reason why he doesn't end up here. Still,BB is gonna have to find a replacement for Malcolm Butler.

Odessafile

Paying 10-11 millon in essence for a 2nd rounder with the entire Texans deal last year for Osweiller was perplexing ...and then passing on the slew of top talent at QB ~ I don't want to even name them or Ill end up in a sanitation ward....... these turds are due to come up lucky soon. But Im not holding any inhales.

stevek

@keets said:
Steve, if you have been paying any attention to what I post about the Browns(apparently you haven't) I said for quite a while that they should use salary cap and draft picks to do what you said, build the OL/DL. after that, my main rant is their insistence on always trying to draft a QB. they made progress in the past 1-2 years with the DL and will probably draft lineman this year.

since you admittedly are "not that familiar with the Cleveland team players" you are forgiven. also, they need to quit with the NFL obsession of insisting on using that pick on a QB. if you were familiar with the Team you would know that the problems run deeper than a QB, it is all about management sticking with a HC for more that two years and having a blueprint of some kind to build the Team.

if they followed Pittsburgh they would be better off and improve quickly. and no, you can't use "right idea" and Johnny Manziel in the same sentence and expect not to be laughed at.

I really enjoy watching the NFL draft, but I don't really start getting into it until a few weeks before it begins. So i haven't really closely looked at the available QB's. A sharp GM in this Brown's situation will also be looking at next year's draft as well, figuring his team will probably get the #1 pick again next draft. If there is a stud senior QB coming up in next year's draft, then perhaps ya grab Barkley, and then grab the stud QB next year in the draft. If there is no apparent stud QB next year to draft, then I still think the Browns should do QB or LT for the first pick.

I hear ya about the NFL and high draft choice QB's. However ya gotta take that shot if you want to be a Super Bowl winning team. QB is by far the most important position in team sports, and to win big, ya gotta think big and take some risks. So ya take the shot with QB as a high draft pick and if it works, it works, if it doesn't then it doesn't.

We all know the story about Brady being a sixth round pick, and Johnny Unitas being a very low round pick...but that is rare in great QB's. The great ones are usually first or second round picks. I think Montana was a third round pick. Sometimes depending on a team's situation, the key is the ability of a GM and his scouts to find the great one, that other teams don't see. Bill Belichick who in my opinion is the greatest head football coach of all time, it's no big surprise that he would be the one who grabbed Brady, even though it was late.

You are so right about having a blueprint, and of course the great GM's do just that. The Browns do need to have some sort of 3 to 5 year plan at this point, and not just patching up a team that is awful, because that is a terribly flawed strategy for putting together a future winning team.

The interesting scenario in the upcoming draft also will be who the Browns take with their second and third picks - we shall see how they do. Good luck!

keets

You are so right about having a blueprint

here's the Browns blueprint for the last eternal 20 years:
1.) hire a new GM every 3-5 years.
2.) hire a new Head Coach and "saddle" him with the previous HC's draft picks, player personnel and game scheme.
3.) after 1-2 without a winning record, fire the Head Coach.
3a.) make sure you change QB's every year, maybe every other year.
4.) repeat step (2) and if it's time, step (3).
5.) perhaps sell the Team every 5-10 years.

this process has repeated over and over. the most frustrating part is that when they change the HC he is forced to use the previous guy's players as he tries to bring in his own, and implement his strategy. when he fails to achieve immediate success he gets fired and the process repeats itself.

stevek

Of course stinkin' Art Modell can be blamed for at least some of that. Him breaking up the continuity of a Cleveland Browns football team.

I'm of course not even a Browns fan at all, but even I, and I think most football fans thought what Modell did and the way he did it was downright despicable.

I guess the Browns just got into some bad habits and haven't been able to shake it loose yet?

erikthredd

Browns just traded defensive tackle Danny Shelton & a 2018 5th round pick to NE for a 2019 3rd round pick. NE needs any & all DL help they can get so i like the deal especially when they get an extra pick this year.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22714300/cleveland-browns-trade-danny-shelton-new-england-patriots

grote15

I expect the Browns to win at least 5x as many games as they did last year..

Brick

The Browns are so sure they have the Head Coach who will take them to the promised land they proclaimed January 31st "Hue Jackson Day."

erikthredd

i'm surprised they just didn't go after McCarron without having to give up picks.

bronco2078

I like Tyrod Taylor , it feels like he played well enough against the patriots at least. Media likes to get on him but I think he is under rated

bronco2078

I wanted the Patriots to get Talib I love that guy , he wanted to come here supposedly supposedly the Patriots wouldn't give him 100% of his money but the Rams would. The Rams are making great moves I think they will have a good run next season.

Sherman might be cheaper because of the injury but they probably won't pay him either . They won't pay Solder , they won't pay Gronk , cheap skates

bronco2078

@Odessafile said:
Paying 10-11 millon in essence for a 2nd rounder with the entire Texans deal last year for Osweiller was perplexing ...and then passing on the slew of top talent at QB ~ I don't want to even name them or Ill end up in a sanitation ward....... these turds are due to come up lucky soon. But Im not holding any inhales.

Aren't they paying Brock to play in Denver? wtf was that all about

DIMEMAN

@grote15 said:
I expect the Browns to win at least 5x as many games as they did last year..

5 X 0 = 0.....I see what you did there! Maybe they will get lucky and when 1 due to bad coaching on the other team.....do they play the Cowboys?? Nobody worse than Garrett!

Odessafile

@bronco2078 ... they paid all that dough to get the second round draft choice attached to him knowing osweiller was a stiff .. but seeing how fluent they are in dealing with stiffs they were comfortable ... I thought it was promising they didn’t start him but dumped the oversized shed of lugnuts to another franchise ... starting him as their new promising salvation I’d a gone on a jihad.

perkdog

I absolutely love what the Browns are doing, Taylor is not a horrendous choice and it didn’t cost them much at all, I mean it’s far better than taking on Cousins and his soon to be way overpriced contract. They got Landry who is a ball magnet. And they should in my opinion grab Chubb and one of the QB’s- I think it’s a crap shoot on who the best choice really is with their first two round picks. I do like that the Pats got Shelton, I think they made a mistake giving up on that kid. But getting a potential franchise QB and grabbing Chubb over Barkley is the right move I think

erikthredd

Looks like Sherman signed with San Fran,so much for wanting to play for a contender.

bronco2078

@erikthredd said:
Looks like Sherman signed with San Fran,so much for wanting to play for a contender.

tom brady 2.0 there in san fran . Plus he wants to get paid after the injury they must have offered him guaranteed money

erikthredd

@bronco2078 said:

@erikthredd said:
Looks like Sherman signed with San Fran,so much for wanting to play for a contender.

tom brady 2.0 there in san fran . Plus he wants to get paid after the injury they must have offered him guaranteed money

Its more about the money than the Brady clone. It will be funny seeing all the 49ers fans root for the guy after all the times he ran his mouth during SF-SEA games.

Justacommeman

SF makes the playoff much sooner then later. Lots of playoffs

m

grote15

I think SF is a playoff team this season.

erikthredd

i consider making the playoffs and being a "contender" two different things. We see plenty teams get into the postseason every year who are lucky to make it into the 2nd round. I'm as big a Garoppolo fan there is but NFL defenses are going to build up game film of his play and things will get much harder for him that second time around. Brady was unbelievable in year 1 as starter,not so much in year 2.

erikthredd

Looks like Kirk Cousins is heading to the Vikings
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-kirk-cousins-to-sign-with-the-vikings-at-dollar27-plus-million-annually/ar-BBK5wso?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

edit: this isn't a done deal yet.

perkdog

If I’m a QB needy team I’m going in a different direction wether it be a Free Agent like Teddy Bridgewater or the draft. I’m not paying Cousins 27+ million a year, he will end up being a waste of money in my opinion

keets

although the Browns had Draft picks galore and cap space for what/who-ever they wanted, I think they made the right move in staying away from someone like Cousins. they don't need a top-tier QB at this point in trying to establish some sensibility to the franchise, they need A.) a QB who is average and durable to guide them through 2-3 seasons while B.) they can get the rest of the Team as close to stacked as possible.

they have plenty of draft picks in 2018 and 2019. with a modicum of Scouting help they should be able to either draft a good QB to sit and learn the NFL or acquire a really good QB via the draft/free agency. they shouldn't squander the #1 pick, or even the picks from the first few rounds. they have an opportunity to get some talent at other positions.

to my way of thinking the Team GM and everyone around him needs to be thinking long term, not short term to get a QB and have a winning record next season.

galaxy27

i love what the Niners and Browns are doing, and the only other time i said that in my life i was drunk.

i'll make a friendly wager with anyone right now that SF will have a better record than Seattle next year. acquiring Brady 2.0 (i like that, bronc) for a song may turn out to be one of the greatest heists in U.S. history, and the Legion of Boom is now where matadors go to intern. anyone wanna buy me dinner?

as for Cleveland, i approve of the acquisition of Taylor because he doesn't turn the ball over. but i think he's merely a stopgap, bc one of their other 20 first-round picks will be used on a signal caller they truly covet. if i'm a Browns fan, the thought of Barkley in my backfield sends a thrill up my pants leg. i personally think he's Fournette on a heavy dose of roids. if Cle doesn't take him, the Giants have a Christmas card ready.

keets

**if i'm a Browns fan, the thought of Barkley in my backfield sends a thrill up my pants leg. **

I'm a Browns fan and that thrill goes DOWN my pants leg, so I understand the sentiment. he looks real.

Justacommeman

Last time a Penn State RB went number 1 overall was Ki-Jana Carter. He has the all-time yards per run ( 7.2 ) in school history. Barkley at number 1 seems like a huge risk.

mark

DIMEMAN

I just wish you could draft a new head coach and owner.

bronco2078

no running backs don't matter anymore , don't waste any picks on them. The Patriots won super bowls with disposable running backs , so can everyone else.

How about the draft some offensive linemen to protect whoever the QB of the future after taylor is?

galaxy27

@bronco2078 said:
no running backs don't matter anymore , don't waste any picks on them. The Patriots won super bowls with disposable running backs , so can everyone else.

in some cases this is very true. the two teams that made the super bowl come directly to mind. even Minny pieced it together when Dalvin Cook went down.

but then you take a look at a team like Dallas that has neither a sound D nor an upper-echelon NFL QB to fall back on, like the aforementioned franchises. seriously, what were the Cowboys sans Zeke? they were the Browns' long lost cousin........a family tree devoid of talent and playmaking ability, with no chance of ever hoisting a Lombardi.

if i'm calling the shots for Cleveland, no way am i passing up freak show RB at 1 knowing full well that i have picks at 4, 33 & 35 to address other issues, including the signal caller position. the dropoff from Barkley to guys like Chubb or Guice is much larger than, say, Josh Allen to guys like Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield, imo.

erikthredd

@galaxy27 said:

@bronco2078 said:
no running backs don't matter anymore , don't waste any picks on them. The Patriots won super bowls with disposable running backs , so can everyone else.

in some cases this is very true. the two teams that made the super bowl come directly to mind. even Minny pieced it together when Dalvin Cook went down.

but then you take a look at a team like Dallas that has neither a sound D nor an upper-echelon NFL QB to fall back on, like the aforementioned franchises. seriously, what were the Cowboys sans Zeke? they were the Browns' long lost cousin........a family tree devoid of talent and playmaking ability, with no chance of ever hoisting a Lombardi.

if i'm calling the shots for Cleveland, no way am i passing up freak show RB at 1 knowing full well that i have picks at 4, 33 & 35 to address other issues, including the signal caller position. the dropoff from Barkley to guys like Chubb or Guice is much larger than, say, Josh Allen to guys like Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield, imo.

Before Zeke,Dallas just had a 1000+ rushing season from Darren McFadden and before him they had Demarco Murray who led the NFL in rushing with 1800+ rushing yards IIRC. The key to the Cowboys rushing success has more to do with their great OLine in my opinion than it does Zeke.
The Browns already have 3/5ths of a great OL and have the picks to go fill in the rest. Technically with their 5 picks in the 1st two rounds they could get their stud RB, QB to develop,fill out the other two Oline spots then grab the best available WR or TE and that Browns offense has been completely rebuilt by round 2.

galaxy27

@erikthredd said:

Before Zeke,Dallas just had a 1000+ rushing season from Darren McFadden and before him they had Demarco Murray who led the NFL in rushing with 1800+ rushing yards IIRC. The key to the Cowboys rushing success has more to do with their great OLine in my opinion than it does Zeke.

as currently constructed, Zeke is the Cowboys. prior to him being suspended last year, the Cowboys averaged a little over 28 points per game. when he went to the bench, Dallas' next three tilts were against playoff teams.......they scored a grand total of 22 points and were subsequently blown out in all three. unfortunately i was subjected to all of those games, and it immediately became crystal clear why the organization smooches his behind no matter what he does: because without him, they are nothing.

the o-line is still one of the NFL's best, but it's not what it once was when McFadden & Murray were toting the rock

.02

keets

there is little doubt that the NFL is currently a passing league, but you can count the number of Teams who can effectively do without a running game on one hand. they all try to do it but it isn't easy. just as in the 50's-60's the NFL was one dimensional, so it has become today, too pass heavy. during the 70's-80's most Teams were balanced better and all of the really great Teams of that era had a fine running back, someone that could be counted on to grind out yardage. as recently as the expected dynasty in Seattle there was Marshawn Lynch, so I have hope that the concept isn't gone forever.

A History Lesson FromMyLoftyPerch.

the rules over the past 30-40 years have slowly changed to favor passing, more offense, a quicker pace and higher scoring. think $$$ in the stands and on Cable TV. it has even trickled down to the NFL farm system, college football. the Prime Minister of the current trend is/was Bill Walsh, and thus begins the very peculiar Cleveland connection. Walsh began his NFL career under former Browns Head Coach Paul Brown in his re-incarnation leading the Cincinnatti Bengals. he was eventually hired by Youngstown, Ohio native and Cleveland area mogul Edward J. DeBartolo, Sr. and put the finishing touches on the West Coast Offense out in San Francisco.

perhaps the best current practicing Head Coach in the NFL of the Walsh philosophy is Bill Belichick. strangely, he isn't connected to the Bill Walsh "tree" in any way I know of, but he is connected to the Cleveland Browns. in typical fashion, he was ridden out of town on a rail by a vindictive press corps and impatient fan-base. little known to many fans is that while in Cleveland Coach Belichick had an assistant named Nick Saban!!!

though they parted ways in the mid-90's their brief reunion in New England would result in.............................two Legends, one with the Patriots and another with the Crimson Tide in Alabama. I will add to this the FACT that when he first came to Cleveland as Principal Owner, one of the first things that Art Modell did was negotiate a TV contract and initiate other things like MNF which have been highly successful for the NFL and brought untold millions of dollars to individual franchises and the League overall.

how is it that all of that took place and not only have the Browns been kept away from the party, but the City lost the franchise entirely?? it is very confusing to me. I hold out hope. these recent trades are a good sign and the start of Free Agency in a few days is a good thing. I may watch the Draft, I just pray that it isn't on ESPN.

erikthredd

@galaxy27 said:

@erikthredd said:

Before Zeke,Dallas just had a 1000+ rushing season from Darren McFadden and before him they had Demarco Murray who led the NFL in rushing with 1800+ rushing yards IIRC. The key to the Cowboys rushing success has more to do with their great OLine in my opinion than it does Zeke.

as currently constructed, Zeke is the Cowboys. prior to him being suspended last year, the Cowboys averaged a little over 28 points per game. when he went to the bench, Dallas' next three tilts were against playoff teams.......they scored a grand total of 22 points and were subsequently blown out in all three. unfortunately i was subjected to all of those games, and it immediately became crystal clear why the organization smooches his behind no matter what he does: because without him, they are nothing.

the o-line is still one of the NFL's best, but it's not what it once was when McFadden & Murray were toting the rock

.02

I have A cousin who is a die-hard Cowboys fan so i've had to spend way more time talking about them than i'd like to. The OL wasn't as good as 2014-16 because one guy retired after 2016 (Doug Free) & another left as a FA (Leary). Zeke had a GREAT season in 2016 but a huge part of the reason why was that Offensive Line AND having a QB that pretty much played mistake free as a rookie. I don't know how many times i had the argument with him of "who made who" between the OL/Prescott/Zeke especially when it was ROY voting time.

Last year,the QB regressed in year 2,the OL had to fill holes and the RB missed 6 games while rushing for a whole yard less per carry than the year before. You can also look at Dez,Witten & Beasley who all had down years in 2017 compared to 2016.
Take the defense out of the picture and their entire offense got worse not just because Elliott missed 6 games. That offense in 2016 kind of had a "perfect storm" with the way they played,last season was probably a better snapshot of who they really are.

erikthredd

On a sidenote,about the Garopollo hype above,just look at Dak Prescott from year one to year two. Started out at 13-3 while completing 67% of his passes,had a 104 passer rating and threw just 4 interceptions. THEN year two, goes 9-7 with a 62% completion, 86 passer rating & 13 interceptions.
I think Jimmy will be a top 5ish QB at some point but defenses will catch up to him probably sooner than later. His team could make the playoffs in 2018 but i doubt they're a legit contender for a few years and by then Sherman might already be gone.

@keets you can catch the draft on the NFL network channel too. just an FYI, round one is usually that thursday night, rounds 2&3 on friday night then rounds 4-7 on saturday starting at noon.

keets

FWIW, Team stability is always an overlooked component of any Team sport. when there is constant shifting due to injuries or that BS with Elliot and things change from week to week it is hard to have a steady flow of production. absent the OL departures, if Dallas has Elliot in the backfield for the entire 16 game season I think the Team will "regress" to the form they had in 2016.

while we're talking about Dallas, let's look at Tennessee. they have two Heisman winners in the backfield who are both pretty overrated yet compare favorably with what Dallas has. Elliot was overlooked when he played for OSU for some reason but Dallas managed to see the truth. same for Prescott, but he was probably more of a "hope" pick. I wonder if either Marriota or Henry will ever live up to their College hype??

some will say that at Dallas we are seeing over-performance and at Tennessee we are seeing under-performance. I tend to think we are seeing the truth. Dallas at 9-5 and Tennessee at 8-6.

erikthredd

@keets my whole thing with Zeke Elliott is i just don't think he was as great as his rookie year. Just two years before,pretty much the same starting offensive line helped Demarco Murray rush for the 17th HIGHEST rushing total in NFL history. I just think his OL gets greatly overlooked.

Tom Brady should be smiling today after hearing Miami is cutting Ndamukong Suh

keets

I guess I have an advantage in evaluating Elliot since I had the chance to watch him during his college days. he's the complete package, a good receiver, better than average pass blocker, a great running back with excellent hip movement and true sprinters speed. last year should be overlooked for what it was, a distraction filled season where he wasn't sure about much at any time..

as for the OL, I suppose we could say that about Derrick Henry. he has now had two complete seasons with the Titans and not made much noise. you are correct in saying that the OL toils in anonymity and the RB gets the credit, but I think Elliot is the real deal once he spots the hole or reaches the corner.

erikthredd

Fair enough. I think he's a good RB but that first year the team had everything going for them, not so much the following year. Thats the NFL in a nutshell though.

stevek

So what are the chances of the Cowboys either not making the playoffs or losing in the first round of the playoffs? I'd say it's a 100% certainty.

Jerry Jones has a remarkable ability of finding talented players, lumping them all together, and coming out with nothing. It's really an incredible technique that Jerry has, and I highly admire him for it. I hope that Jerry continues to further hone this superb skill even better. Long live Jerry Jones.

erikthredd

Browns signed RB Carlos Hyde 3yrs/15M & TE Darren Fells 3yrs/12M
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22758237/cleveland-browns-expected-sign-running-back-carlos-hyde

grote15

The Dawg Pound is back!

keets

they also signed two OL's and a DL, following MY plan. I hope the guys can stick and help with some protection, Joe Thomas is getting close to the end of the line.

grote15

I believe Thomas retired.

perkdog

Thomas did retire, Browns are looking good though. Again I think DE Chubb and a QB at #4 is their best bet in the first round

keets

After 11 seasons and 10,363 consecutive snaps, the Browns announced the nine-time All-Pro is retiring after a storied run with the NFL’s most hopeless team.

y'know, I was at my Mom and Dads house today and the ol' boy was flipping through channels with the volume off as we talked, one of the stations we passed through had a news conference going on with JT but I didn't pay it any mind. it doesn't surprise me since he toiled the way he did out of dedication to his Team and personal pride.

I met Joe Thomas after his rookie season at the Cleveland Sport, Travel and Outdoor Show. he was doing a greet-and-chat type of thing at a booth. he came off as a typical 22 year old young man. of course he was sitting behind the booth and I was standing, had he stood up I suppose I would have a different opinion!! I know he gets a lot of criticism from fans, but I think his talent and HOF worthiness can be gauged by what his opponents say/said about him. to a man it has always been respectfull compliments.

I can only assume that the injury last season was worse than first reported and the rehab back to playing at this point in his career and life gave him pause. it may be only 11 seasons but he stuck with one Team, a real exception in this era. hat's off to Joe, he always answered when the bell rang.