Hawai'ian proof coins - 1883. Minor update.
RogerB
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This little letter might be of interest to collectors of Hawai'ian national coins. A follow-up letter describes the two sets as "proof coins."
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So is he implying that all 20 sets were not authorized or that only the two given for inspection and the mint cabinet not authorized? My wife collects Hawai'ian coins and she has a proof quarter. Very interesting ....
Very interesting!
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
So were all sets coined accounted for in the records? Or do the records only show those authorized? Cheers, RickO
Of course Hawaii was not a state in 1883, so that may have something to do with it ...
Out with it Roger!
The Hawai'i coinage contract required the mint to develop regulations for striking coins for foreign governments. At present I don't a complete set of correspondence/instructions back to the first request. Monthly coinage reports do not show the Hawai'i coinage....yet.
This is one of several similar responses to inquiries from coin collectors.
The two proof sets, mentioned in the initial post, were sent to the Hawai'ian Agent in San Francsico. Did he authorize proof sets?
@RogerB - have you run across any of the original contracts or correspondence between the mint and foreign governments to manufacture coins on their behalf? The first would've been after the Act of January 29, 1874 before we coined 1 and 2.5 centavos for Venezuela in 1876 and the second would've been before this Hawaiian coinage. That would've been it for the 1800s until the last few years of the century when we were contracted by Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, and Mexico.
mvs7 - Part of these records are at NARA in Philadelphia and part are at NARA in College Park, MD. CP records are filed by project/country and include a lot of the business records - contracts, etc. - that went through Mint HQ. Philadelphia records have pieces of these plus operation/production records.
The bottom line is that you have to check both places, plus letters sent and received to get a complete picture.
PS: Contracts were usually developed by the Department of State, and originals should be in their archives.
Thanks @RogerB, that’s very helpful.
Interesting letters, thanks for sharing!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Any docs with respect to the copper proofs? Were any actually distributed?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Any reference to who was in charge of spelling legends and mottos during 1847 and the 1880's? LOL
RE: Copper pieces. Nothing mention in the group of letters I've looked at. But, there are a few hundred volumes and boxes I have yet to examine. Plus, I've examined none of the foreign coin project files except Saudi Arabia.
RE: Spelling.
Got to wonder at times. Foreign coin production required the contracting country to provide designs and hubs. Usually, this meant having a drawing prepared, then privately contracting with the Mint Engraver to prepare the hubs and supervise die manufacture. Thus, spelling on foreign coins was the responsibility of the country placing the order.
Here is a letter requesting payment to Charles Barber for Hawai'i dime dies. This denomination replaced the original 1/8th dollar that was designed but not produced.
That is so cool going through those old records, and interesting about the requesting country being responsible for the spelling. Was it that way in 1847 when the Hawai'ian cents were made and misspelled?
Of course you know legend has always been that "we" misspelled a word on the coin and the Hawai'ian's threw them in the ocean. But, the Hawai'ians were busy around that time trying to spell their language in English too. The name “Honolulu” came into use about 1825. Earlier forms of the same name were Honoruru. Hanarura and Hanarourou. The island of Oahu was formerly known as Woahoo and Kauai as Atooi.
The Paris mint also screwed the spelling on the proposed nickel, as have other various token manufacturers through the years.
It is a beautiful language when spoken or sung, but gimme some consonants!!
What would be the result of mixing ancient Hebrew and Hawai'ian?
Hawaibrew? Hebwai'in? Yiddish?
Well they were going from petroglyphs to English, so I'm sure it took a few times
On the 1/8th dollar, weren't some produced?
@DMWJR - Although Hawaii originally wanted an eighth dollar (along with the dollar, half, and quarter), it was decided to substitute the dime instead for the 1883 coinage so that they could use US coin planchets for all denominations. Some ~20 proofs were produced and included with the presentation sets minted the following year. See this CoinFacts page for additional info.
Thanks. There are also some very good Russian fakes on the bay, but the portrait is too large for the usual coin spacing.
Makes sense, a different size planchet could have meant a large increase in costs given the lower required mintage
The "coin facts" page only has this for a source:
Sources and/or recommended reading:
"Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia Of U.S. And Colonial Coins" by Walter Breen
"Hawaiian Money Standard Catalog, Second Edition" by Donald Medcalf and Ronald Russell
Neither cite original sources so they are only hearsay. (I.e., a determination cannot be based on these; they are only indicators.)
Two sets of proofs (with 1/8-dol) are mentioned in the opening letter and another, so there would have to be at least 18 more prepared and documented. Two dime proofs are mentioned in the second letter.
@RogerB agreed. I only linked the CoinFacts page because I didn't have time to write out the rest of the hearsay. Breen is obviously a known question mark when it comes to accuracy without primary sources. That story about substituting dimes instead of eighth dollars for cost and convenience was the commonly accepted belief in the 80s with old-time dealers in Hawaii, but they were likely all informed by the Medcalf book, which they all sold. IIRC, Medcalf himself was still one of the old-time dealers operating then... his son has since taken over.
As I find more material on Hawai'ian coins I'll let members know.
Checked the Foreign Coinage Project Files at NARA College Park. They have only mid-20th century inquiries and related material. A check of the finding aid for NARA in Philadelphia does not show a project file for Hawaii.
The foreign coinage files at NARA contain letters from the 1950s and 1960s primarily relating to the location of the hubs and dies. Hubs were at the Philadelphia Mint, dies at the Hawaii Museum. There is a 16-page presentation script discussing the fake gold, platinum and other imitations that were making the rounds at that time.
Nothing specific relating to any of the proofs. Absence of a project file at Philadelphia NARA means that information might be found in the correspondence files there, and possibly some at College Park (but not much expected).
That's it for the present. If something interesting turns up, I'll post it.