PCGS counterfeit coin turn around time
Gotgoodsman
Posts: 29 ✭
in Q & A Forum
I sent a coin to PCGS and I wasn't sure if it was real or not. Does anybody know how long it typically takes them to identify a counterfeit? Does it take the same time for them to ship it back? It's been 20 business days and I used the standard submission
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They treat your coin as a normal genuine coin submission. there are different turnaround times based on the SPEED YOU WANTED. Post the tier you used and someone may know how long they are taking .
It was regular service. I sent a world service regular before and it was fake and it only took 3 days for them to ship back
Well according to some posters here it takes well less than 6 seconds to spot any fake.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
I agree. Two to six seconds for 95% of the US counterfeit or altered coins. Longer for world coins. You see, in order to authenticate a coin, you need to know what a genuine specimen looks like. So when a coin dated 1886 from the East River Archipelago Colony that you have never even heard of comes to your desk, well...it's not going to be that easy.
OK, two to six seconds starting now!
Nice try Newbie.
I was born at night but not last night! Yikes, this took over six seconds to type.
Next time you wish to play games with the members here, I suggest you post a GENUINE COIN as that would have been a lot more difficult to authenticate using just an image!
Now, let's discuss the "folly" of EAC grading.
PS I notice that some of you EAC "Ex-Perts" like to send coins you know are counterfeits to the major grading services hoping to get them slabbed as genuine so you can impress each other. This is so UNETHICAL and should be against the bylaws of that fine organization! IMO, your post here is just that and ... never mind, I don't wish to break the rules around here. Pull this stunt again and I'm going to start a new discussion. In fact, I just may anyway!
PPS When I started as a professional, the clubs, collectors, and dealers were on the same side as the authentication service. IMO, some EAC members know more about authenticating copper coins than any TPGS authenticator. You should be helping out and teaching, not trapping, or embarrassing them! Now why not try to redeem yourself and let us all know the reasons the coin you posted is a deceptive die struck COUNTERFEIT.
OK, I'm not even going to try because I know absolutely nothing about Seated Liberty Half Dollars. I am curious however, did this one make it into a slab?
@Insider2 sir if you could help me out please, I know you don't like to answer questions but what on earth is a EAC? TIA
Edit: Just answered my own question on EAC but now more confused than ever, I thought we were referring to a 90% silver fake here.........?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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just a cross-reference for the 72s posted.
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This is a very deceptive counterfeit. Yes, several were slabbed before being detected. I believe members of the LSCC (another club) were the first to ID it as a fake.
EAC is a club devoted to the collection and study of U.S. Copper coins. it is over fifty years old. Over that period, its members have included many of the most knowledgeable and famous numismatists.
Thank you very much for answering. As if we don't have enough problems with the counterfeiters now we have respected numismatists purposely trying to trick the TPG services? Don't see any value in that at all, still can't get over the whole 6 seconds to grade a coin. Situations like this are exactly why more time should be devoted to authenticating and grading.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Insider2- after that tirade you want me to "redeem" myself with an explanation of what's wrong with this one? Really? You obviously know all, so you explain it to the masses.
In terms of sending some of these latest deceptive struck fakes to the top TPG's, yes I have done just that, and then notified the TPG of the "error" and returned the slabbed example back for a second review, having it cracked out, imaged, scanned and measured to better document what makes the fake tick.
Examples already slabbed have been used in counterfeit detection seminars in an effort to aid in detection (along with images and analysis to describe them) and whether you like it or not it adds to the credibility for less experienced hobbyists of just how deceptive they are, as well as the TPG's.
And yes, 6 or whatever seconds per coin for review is not enough, and if all of this makes the TPG's a little more cautious maybe the next one's sent in by an actual seller will be caught and the "coin" not "certified" for sale in the marketplace.
Certainly have to agree 100% with this.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
@burfle23 said: "Insider2- after that tirade you want me to "redeem" myself with an explanation of what's wrong with this one? Really? You obviously know all, so you explain it to the masses."
News flash. I don't know if I would have caught that particular counterfeit or not. I certainly hope so, as a stereo microscope, two eyes, and florescent light is a good equalizer. I also have the luxury of not working under any time pressure as the guys at the top two services do. Additionally, I am the furthest from a know-it-all than anyone I have worked with and I've worked with two of those folks. Most of my former colleagues share info and could discuss coins or dissenting opinions w/o being disagreeable.
A member has already posted a link on this thread to the counterfeit diagnostics. Jack Young, an EAC member has described these fakes on the internet also.
@burfle23 said: "In terms of sending some of these latest deceptive struck fakes to the top TPG's, yes I HAVE DONE JUST THAT,[in spite of the other things I wrote, at least you are honest about how you operate] and then notified the TPG of the "error" and returned the slabbed example back for a second review, having it cracked out, imaged, scanned and measured to better document what makes the fake tick."
You made my case. When I find a "new" to me counterfeit I get on the phone. As a former employee at NGC and NCS it is easier to contact them or ANACS. I have no idea who I would call at our host. Since I live in Sarasota, it is easy to bring a new fake over for a look. In the 70's the director took a walk over to the U.S. Mint Lab with any new fakes. That's how I learned about cooperation.
@burfle23 said: "Examples already slabbed have been used in counterfeit detection seminars in an effort to aid in detection (along with images and analysis to describe them) and whether you like it or not it adds to the credibility for less experienced hobbyists of just how deceptive they are, as well as the TPG's."
What? No student would believe they are deceptive on your word alone? Better to show the students what you
guys were able to slip past the authenticators? So sorry about that, I've never had that problem with students. My problem comes from the actual "know-it-alls" who take a while to agree with an opinion. I've had a target on my back and the places I've worked have had a target on their backs. Mostly from crooks and unethical dealers who knowingly or unknowingly try to get counterfeits and all types of alterations past us.
It is EXTREMELY HUMBLINGING when we miss something. Only now, by your admission, we have folks who should be on our side joining the crooks!
@burfle23 said: "And yes, 6 or whatever seconds per coin for review is not enough, and if all of this makes the TPG's a little more cautious maybe the next one's sent in by an actual seller will be caught and the "coin" not "certified" for sale in the marketplace."
I agree, now allow me ask you a question. Perhaps you'll reply. How long does it take you to grade a typical Large cent. How long DID it take for you to authenticate a typical Large cent in 1990? How long does I take today?
You see, I've been in five grading rooms over the years. Recently, I've timed the average time it takes me to remove a coin from a box, remove it from its flip, examine it, punch the grade in to the computer, put the coin in the flip, put the flip in the box and take the next flip out. I timed this in order to discuss that operation with certainty on the coin forums.. I'll bet the typical experienced finalizer could have finished at least two to four coins in the time it took me to write this sentence. They are faster than me. Additionally, we need to be watchful of our "friends."
I am Jack D. Young, and have 14 articles on the subject published on Coin Week and thought this venue may be a good place to continue to raise awareness on this topic but I have no intention of continuing an argument with you on this- you have your opinions, I have mine and quite frankly the TPG's are regarded as paid experts and entrusted with properly grading and authenticating coins for the general coin collecting public. Many believe the label on the slab without question, buying the slab and not the "coin" and bypassing any numismatic knowledge or experience with what they buy- I truly believe one should collect what you know, and know what you collect...
And it can take me easily up to an hour to properly attribute a coin, even in my wheelhouse, and much longer for a truely suspect example like the one I posted.
Hi Jack,
Earlier this week, after a SIMILAR DISCUSSION on another web site regarding TPGS errors, I suggested that you join us here on Collector's Universe (a much better forum) so you could share your knowledge with members here. I'm very glad you did.
PS If you don't own a stereo microscope, you should get one. At least 97% of the attributions I do on a daily basis on all types of coins are done using one. A very long time ago, I learned it is much quicker than using a hand lens.
PSS I have never seen a professional take an hour to attribute a coin. So, I'll assume (Oop's we know what that means) that the coins you are working on grade Good and below, or you are not writing about authentication. I've already posted that in a few cases, "proper" authentication has taken several months! The six second comment for authentication and grading that a poster cannot believe is reserved for so-called "dangerous" fakes that look like junk to a professional who has seen several dozen over the decades or commonly seen coins that have been graded by the tens of thousands.
EAC=Early American Copper.
Coin Week research article for those interested in the 1872-s "half dollar":
https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coins-mystery-1872-s-half-dollar-1-page-attribution-guide/