WINNER DRAWN -----Contest----Pine Tree Giveaway----Sort of.

1630Boston · February 9, 2018 7:18AM

The randomly drawn winner is @Insider2 , PM Me.
Thanks to all for your informative input on this subject.

I've been studying Massachusetts Pine Trees for a while, and while I think I am proficient at determining the NOE classification in most instances, I need some reassurance from the experts here.

Tell me if I got these correct.

RULES
This will be a random drawing with one winner.
You get 1 entry for posting anything here.{hopefully relevant}
You get an additional entry if you believe I am wrong and can convince me why I am.
You get an additional entry if you can tell me how to determine the rarity of these,{ I do not think coin facts lists the rarity for these anymore}.

The contest ends Sunday 02/11/18 at Noon EST.

The prize is: A raw, Circulated 11 coin set of Jefferson Silver War Nickels [11 different coins].

Tell me if I am correct:
I believe the threepence is NOE 36, Crosby 2A-B, Salmon 2-B, R.4
and the sixpence is NOE 33, Crosby 1-A, Salmon 2-B, R.3 ?

oih82w8 · February 9, 2018 7:28AM

I have nothing to contribute on the series, although I have been fond of them since I saw them in the Redbook, many years ago. Nice contest!

ricko · February 9, 2018 9:19AM

I cannot help with information, so not in the contest.... but I have always been intrigued by the Pine Tree coins and have long hoped I would find one metal detecting in this area since it was populated at that time and had commerce as well...No luck so far.... Nice coins. Cheers, RickO

AUandAG · February 9, 2018 9:46AM

Never had a chance to own one. I always do wonder why they call them Pine trees. Looks more like a Spruce tree to me.

bob

asheland · February 9, 2018 12:59PM

I don't know the series that well, but those are nice examples pictured!

topstuf · February 9, 2018 1:33PM

@AUandAG said:
Never had a chance to own one. I always do wonder why they call them Pine trees. Looks more like a Spruce tree to me.

bob

They refused to call them Fish Bone Shillings.

AUandAG · February 9, 2018 1:35PM

Yeah, artists they were not.

bob

mvs7 · February 9, 2018 1:36PM

All I know about the MA pine trees is what's in the Redbook. I'll chime in, though, to say those are some nice-looking examples. Good luck on your attributions!

Insider2 · February 9, 2018 1:50PM

Your attributions are correct. I see you already have the book.

Kkathyl · February 9, 2018 2:03PM

That's some fine Pence you have. I appreciate the entry and the coin pictures.
NOE 33 1-A on sixpence for sure agree enlarge die break between 1 and 6 check do you have weights?
I don't see anything on the Three but would ask how did you get the coin and also the weight?

1630Boston · February 9, 2018 2:06PM

@Insider2 ...thanks to @Aegis3 I found the following

I also found valuable info from a 2012 article at @CoinRaritiesOnline , thanks CRO

1630Boston · February 9, 2018 2:16PM

@Kkathyl
The III Pence is 15.89 gr.

Insider2 · February 9, 2018 2:42PM

IMO "THE" reference now is: The Silver Coins of Massachusetts by Salmon. Noe is good but you should have this and Whitman's Colonial Encyclopedia.

topstuf · February 9, 2018 2:44PM

@1630Boston said:
@Insider2 ...thanks to @Aegis3 I found the following

I also found valuable info from a 2012 article at @CoinRaritiesOnline , thanks CRO

Library of Coins?

messydesk · February 9, 2018 2:51PM

I agree with the attributions.

yosclimber · February 9, 2018 3:00PM

@1630Boston said:
...
You get an additional entry if you can tell me how to determine the rarity of these,{ I do not think coin facts lists the rarity for these anymore}.
...

For rarity, you could do what I do for Liberty Seated Half Dimes:
Using the PCGS Auction Prices Realized as a master list,
I download every auction image from 2008-2017 (these have the best quality photos for half dimes; for larger coins you could go earlier),
attribute each one,
count unique examples (i.e. don't double count repeat appearances of the same coin),
and use this to estimate relative rarity.
https://pcgs.com/auctionprices/category/massachusetts-silver-coins-1652-1662/5953
If the auction appearances are a random sample of the surviving examples,
this is a good method for estimating total surviving population.
(Surviving population should be proportionally higher than the count of auction examples).
For examples see my page
https://web.stanford.edu/~clint/hdag/index.htm

sellitstore · February 9, 2018 3:01PM

That weight on the 3 pence doesn't look right.

If "gr." are grams, it's way too heavy, if grains, too light.

Insider2 · February 9, 2018 3:06PM

@sellitstore said:
That weight on the 3 pence doesn't look right.

If "gr." are grams, it's way too heavy, if grains, too light.

Weight is not such a big thing with these coins. Mostly they fall into a "range" due to clipping, wear and damage.

PS Here is a page from the book I mentioned:

messydesk · February 9, 2018 3:11PM

For rarity, I'd do what I did for the attribution. Search Heritage for the specific variety and see how many they've sold over the past several years as compared with other varieties. They do list an R number as well, but I don't know how well these reflect reality for these.

Kkathyl · February 9, 2018 3:33PM

Moffatt & Co. partner Timothy Grat, with the Gallery Mint released reissues of the three pence many many years ago. I agree weight does not matter but originality does. if we find the weight of those we can rule out any possibility of that.

Insider2 · February 9, 2018 3:36PM

@messydesk said:
For rarity, I'd do what I did for the attribution. Search Heritage for the specific variety and see how many they've sold over the past several years as compared with other varieties. They do list an R number as well, but I don't know how well these reflect reality for these.

The OP's rarity #'s match those in the recently published book. Of course, that means nothing as many authors "parrot" previously published info.

Azurescens · February 9, 2018 3:38PM

Just posting to say hello and enter this contest. Thanks KKL.

mannie gray · February 9, 2018 3:58PM

Great early coins, I am fascinated by them but have never owned one.
The only references I own besides the Redbook that would help me attribute are Breen's Encyclopedia, and Coin World's excellent Comprehensive Catalog & Encyclopedia of United States Coins, (1990) that I have read so much it is literally falling apart and taped together.

davewesen · February 9, 2018 4:08PM

they looks good - attributions match some sold on Heritage

erwindoc · February 9, 2018 4:28PM

Nice coins!

Kkathyl · February 9, 2018 5:35PM

Your three pence looks better then this similar size

1630Boston · February 9, 2018 7:27PM

Believe it or not................... The above 3Pence is PCGS F15 which may account for some of the weight loss,
To me it looks better than some higher graded specimens.

mbogoman · February 9, 2018 7:55PM

I agree, too. Checking against the pics in my Salmon "The Silver Coins of Massachusetts", you are spot on.

The Salmon book also has rarity details for each variety, but the stats are a few years old now and wouldn't reflect anything new that has shown up since publication.

TurboSnail · February 9, 2018 9:40PM

CoinWeek: Uncool Coins #2 - 1652 Massachusetts Pine Tree Shilling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYA7_1vMm7c

Kudbegud · February 9, 2018 10:29PM

You know 100 times more than I ever will. I'd like to win one so enter me please.

1630Boston · February 10, 2018 5:32AM

As stated in at the beginning, the "prize" is a set of War Nickels.

jesbroken · February 10, 2018 1:17PM

No beneficial post, so don't enter me. I would just like to say the only Pine Tree I have ever been able to afford was so worn I did not want it. These are very interesting coins and so old it is amazing any have survived.
Jim

1630Boston · February 12, 2018 7:14AM

Winner announced in OP

oih82w8 · February 12, 2018 7:19AM

Congrats @Insider2 !

WINNER DRAWN -----Contest----Pine Tree Giveaway----Sort of.

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