How much do you think is reasonable spread between First Strike VS First Day labels?

Paradisefound

Do you think 25% premium is worth it for First Strike labels? Are these coins in First Strike labelled slab really the first part of mint striking batch; thus is better?

jmlanzaf

@Paradisefound said:
Do you think 25% premium is worth it for First Strike labels? Are these coins in First Strike labelled slab really the first part of mint striking batch; thus is better?

First Strike is a misnomer. It is based on day of shipment not actual date of striking. It's actually possible for a coin that is pre-produced, that the First Strike coins are actually the last strikes because they just happened to be on the top of the pile.

From a "coin" standpoint, there should be no difference between 1st Strike, 1st Day, and any other coin in the same grade. It really comes down to which label you want. If I buy the very first coin struck, am the very first customer to buy it, walk it over to PCGS myself, and opt NOT to pay for the special label, my MS70+ CAC coin will not say First Strike or First Day, even if it was the very first strike off the very first die.

TomB

Truly, I think that there should be no spread at all unless one is collecting the insert, which if they are and they realize it then there is nothing wrong with that, either. The label denotes the time window the coin was received by the TPG and has little or nothing to do with when it was struck or its quality.

cmerlo1

Zero.

Paradisefound

@jmlanzaf said:

Thank you for your sharing your knowledge.
The First Strike always command higher prices and actually realized it too. So...I should not emphasized too much on collecting First Strike?

jmlanzaf

@Paradisefound said:

@jmlanzaf said:

Thank you for your sharing your knowledge.
The First Strike always command higher prices and actually realized it too. So...I should not emphasized too much on collecting First Strike?

Not for the coin. We had this discussion a few months ago and a lot of people said they prefer the First STrike because of the flag on the label. Personally, I don't care about the label, so it wouldn't matter to me. But it mattered to them. And, if it matters to YOU, and you don't mind the premium, go ahead.

This is strictly my personal opinion, but I wouldn't expect it to matter to the future price. Labels change. Fashion changes. Even if the coin goes up more, you paid more to get it. Let your happiness dictate the price. I always figure that I had fun looking for the coin, buying the coin, and owning the coin. Anything I get back for it later - or after I'm dead - is a bonus!

Insider2

@cmerlo1 said:
Zero.

AMEN. However it's a very clever marketing idea to generate a "special" label for thousands of coins.

Anyone who wishes to know the true "spread" should buy on Monday and see what it sells for on Tuesday.

KellenCoin

I think neither of them should have a premium.

ctf_error_coins

I prefer last strikes .......

Smittys

000

JBK

"First Day of Issue" is a novelty.

"Frist Strike"/"Early Releases" etc. as far as I know, is coin that was produced with in a certain timeframe (first month of production, for example). Keep in mind that the dies were fresh only for the start of production, There will also be coins struck with worn out or nearly worn out dies as well, within that timeframe. ("Worn out" is a relative term, of course, since I have never seem a truly worn out die on a SE the way you see them on circulation coins).

Chasing labels will drive you crazy in my opinion, but to each his own.

TwoSides2aCoin

You're asking an unreasonable question.

TwoSides2aCoin

Percentages, like statistics are for __________. There is the key to your answer. What are YOU willing to pay for what you collect ? Nothing else should matter in the coin world (my opinion)

ChrisH821

I wouldn't pay any premium for them... Actually for moderns I almost prefer OGP.

messydesk

For me, there are some coins with special labels for which I would discount my offer price by the cost of reholdering with a normal label.

That said, I will reiterate my gratitude for those willing to pay TPGs for these labels, as that revenue no doubt helps keep the prices of their services that I do use from going up too quickly.

tommy44

For you it depends on how you would like your collection presented. A comparably graded coin in any holder should have the same value, the value added with the label is just marketing fluff to me, to others it might be important and worth the extra money. For example, if creating a registry set or planning to display them one might want a special label.

Treashunt

How much do you think is reasonable spread between First Strike VS First Day labels?

Zero $ or even cents

johnny9434

i really dont need either one. jmo

dpoole

I'm still baffled (in my eternal battle against cynicism) as to who originally came up with the notion and why. Who would have thought a criterion-based (i.e., get it in for grading within X period of time) label designation totally unrelated to the quality of the coin would have been adopted by both major services, and would even inspire separate price lists?

Paradisefound

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Percentages, like statistics are for __________. There is the key to your answer. What are YOU willing to pay for what you collect ? Nothing else should matter in the coin world (my opinion)

An example I see for a same pedigree of 2016 ASE Lettered Edge First Strike $165 vs $135 First Day Strike.

oih82w8

No value added to me. I don't care for those supercilious labels.

jmlanzaf

@dpoole said:
I'm still baffled (in my eternal battle against cynicism) as to who originally came up with the notion and why. Who would have thought a criterion-based (i.e., get it in for grading within X period of time) label designation totally unrelated to the quality of the coin would have been adopted by both major services, and would even inspire separate price lists?

Geniuses at the TPG. Who would have thought that creating registry sets would create huge demand for otherwise common BU modern coins? And who would have thought creating LOW GRADE registry sets would create ridiculous prices for P01 coins? Gotta hand it to them. BRILLIANT!

291fifth

ZERO premium. Just a marketing gimmick.

Kkathyl

the requirement is simple it make it to the grader by the cutoff date established. If a mint strikes all the coins at once, you could get a coin that was at the tail end of the process. That being said, it is graded 70 so should be fine. I buy first days at US mint always because I don't want to buy someone return or reject from the mint. When you buy from the mint you will notice they include a pack list and give you a week or 2 to return. that's is just me. But I wont pay 25% more for a first strike coin. I rather get them direct. that's just me though.

if your not one to submit your own coin, buying the graded coin takes out the risk and gives you a little peace of mind and a very nice holder.

Icollecteverything

I wonder if all the special labels are a problem, I see the TV dealers like them.

ricko

I would not pay anything for that label.... I find it misleading and pretentious.... Cheers, RickO

topstuf

Can this thread be stickied?

Insider2

@dpoole said:
I'm still baffled (in my eternal battle against cynicism) as to who originally came up with the notion and why. Who would have thought a criterion-based (i.e., get it in for grading within X period of time) label designation totally unrelated to the quality of the coin would have been adopted by both major services, and would even inspire separate price lists?

Pure genius! Now all the TPGS do it. Possibly the same fellow who thought up special custom labels also.

My guess it was Miles Standish when he was with PCGS. Apparently, he is a marketing genius (I have only been introduced to him and in his presence twice for a total of two minutes). Must be true as he was hired away by another TPGS to market their product.

Overdate

First Strike labels carry little or no premium over standard labels in grades 69 and below.

RogerB

RE: "How much do you think is reasonable spread between First Strike VS First Day labels?"

Nothing. Both are meaningless hyperbole.

Also, a good, reasonable spread is peanut butter.

blitzdude

@Paradisefound said:
Do you think 25% premium is worth it for First Strike labels? Are these coins in First Strike labelled slab really the first part of mint striking batch; thus is better?

Absolutely not. Zero, zilch, nada!

mvs7

@cmerlo1 said:
Zero.

Absolutely this!

Cameonut

Zero - all sizzle and no steak.

Time for dinner!

BStrauss3

Zero - marketing fluf

mustangmanbob

Like running blindfolded through a minefield. Is there a future legaL liability that will be exploited in class action suits.

For example, special mint issue of 75,000 coins, that the mint hypes up, everybody wants one, etc. Let's say a special 2018 proof set dated 1918, of the coins that were minted in 1918 (even the gold) made on an original steam press. The mint states that to get the precision needed, only 1000 coins can be made from a set of dies, until they wear out, and a new set is needed. Although the mint states all of the coins are "market acceptable" the gurus on this site can tell a coin from the 1st 10 versus the last 10 off a die set. All coins are produced over a 4 week period, boxed, and prepared for

THE BIG SALE DAY.

All sell out in 2 minutes. All 75K are shipped on the same day.

All coins are eligible for 1st strike and 1st day labels.

The TPG know, or should have known, that some of the coins are struck at the end state of dies, yet will get a 1st strike designation. The premium paid for the labels are, by definition, meaningless and actually misleading, as the coins that were truly last strikes on the die sets are labeled as 1st strikes, and some Joe Average is sold these coins by a telemarketer, gets "Educated" and gets a PI attorney to file and get certified for a class action suit for deceptive trade practices.

I am glad I am NOT the sharpest blade in the box.

Slab Labels, Double die or machine doubling, RPM's, die marriages, P01's, hoard history, deliberate or quasi dubious mint "errors" etc. are meaningless to me, thus keeping my simple life simple.

drfish

If I’m buying just after the Coins release I will always opt for PCGS FS labels on burnished gold Eagles or proof Buffalos. Their is little to no premium for the FS label at that time. When it’s time to sell the FS label almost always gets more cash - sometimes significantly more. They also usually sell quicker. See 08w Buffalos/APEs/Liberty Spouses , the 09 Hi Relief, and recently the 17W burnished AGE as examples.
Once the aftermarket price jumps kick in on the low mintage FS issues, there’s no way I’m paying a 25- 300% premium for a label. But I’ll pay $20-30 right after issue - it’s only a percent or two extra on the big gold coins I collect . I look at the FS label as the Modern Coins equivalent of CAC (not as an indication of higher quality but increased marketability) it doesn’t cost much, it helps sell the coin, and can sometimes dramatically increase the sale price

Overdate

@drfish said:
When it’s time to sell the FS label almost always gets more cash - sometimes significantly more. They also usually sell quicker.

True for 70's, not so much for 69's and lower. That's one reason I prefer First Strikes in 69. I miss out on the speculative gains (or losses), but I get essentially the same coin for a lot less money, and they throw in a nice-looking free flag on the label!

mrcommem

zero