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Looks like the Cavs implosion is gonna be bigger than expected

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  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I watched the second half. Cleveland was outstanding today.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Brick said:
    I don't see Cleveland in the hunt for any Championship without LeBron. Championships are what they play for. The only reason free agents have gone to Cleveland is because LeBron is there. After he is gone it will again be a place to have your agent keep you far away from.

    Well said.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2018 3:44AM

    **The only reason free agents have gone to Cleveland is because LeBron is there. **

    this is pure garbage.

    certainly there have been a few signings reflective of Lebron, such as Dwayne Wade, but most of the free agents signed by the Team over the past several years haven't been players of much consequence. for the most part they have been players with lower salary requirements to fill an available spot, guys who would have essentially signed with any Team that offered them a contract.

    the exception to that may have been the summer of 2017 but that hasn't been the rule. for the most part Cleveland hasn't gone looking for the kind of marquee players who can pick-and-choose where they want to go.

    as for "being in the hunt" without Lebron James, do you realize how ridiculous that is?? the way the NBA is now structured, with talent flocking to a few select Teams, I can count on one hand the Teams that are "in the Hunt" with or without him. Cleveland could lose Lebron James this summer and sign 2-3 players and be just fine, very competitive and in the playoffs but not "in the hunt."

    here's the list of guys starting in 2014 that came to Cleveland just to have the chance to play with Lebron James and win an NBA Championship!!! Brick, if you really believe that you're delusional.

    Price, A.J. PG Signed as Free Agent 11/30
    Cherry, Will PG Signed as Free Agent 11/2
    Holt, Stephen SG Signed as Free Agent 10/1
    Edwards, Shane SF Signed as Free Agent 9/28
    Crawford, Chris SG Signed as Free Agent 9/27
    Price, A.J. PG Signed as Free Agent 9/25
    Kirk, Alex C Signed as Free Agent 8/11
    Hopson, Scotty SG
    Cooley, Jack F/C Signed as Free Agent 10/17
    Christmas, Dionte G Signed as Free Agent 10/10
    Stephens, D.J. SF Signed as Free Agent 9/29
    Daye, Austin F Signed as Free Agent 9/28
    Dunigan, Michael C Signed as Free Agent 9/28
    Johnson, Chris C
    Douglas, Toney G Signed as Free Agent 10/3
    Holland, John SG Signed as Free Agent 9/26
    Jefferson, Cory PF Signed as Free Agent 9/26
    Liggins, DeAndre G/F Signed as Free Agent 9/26
    Holmes, Jonathan PF Signed as Free Agent 9/22
    Moreland, Eric PF Signed as Free Agent 9/21
    Brown, Markel SG Signed as Free Agent 9/21
    Andersen, Chris F/C
    Perrantes, London PG Signed as Free Agent - Two Way Contract 10/18
    Wade, Dwyane G Signed as Free Agent 9/27
    Williams, JaCorey SF Signed as Free Agent 9/26
    Perkins, Kendrick C Signed as Free Agent 9/25
    Holland, John SG Signed as Free Agent - Two-Way Contract 9/8
    Rose, Derrick PG Signed as Free Agent 7/25
    Green, Jeff F Signed as Free Agent 7/11
    Calderón, José PG Signed as Free Agent 7/10
    Tavares, Edy C Signed as Free Agent 4/12
    Jones, Dahntay G/F Signed as Free Agent 4/12
    Sanders, Larry F/C
    Bogut, Andrew C Signed as Free Agent 3/2
    Williams, Deron PG

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I may be delusional but if anyone thinks Cleveland is in the finals without LeBron they can join me in my rubber room. Take away LeBron and the Cavs may be in the playoffs for a couple years but slowly get worse each year as they become mediocre and less than mediocre. The best players left will look for another place to land. I would like to see James finish his career in Cleveland and become part owner of the team, that's the best chance for Cleveland to remain relevant in the NBA. I believe the League forbids active players from becoming part owners.

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Brick said:
    I may be delusional but if anyone thinks Cleveland is in the finals without LeBron they can join me in my rubber room. Take away LeBron and the Cavs may be in the playoffs for a couple years but slowly get worse each year as they become mediocre and less than mediocre. The best players left will look for another place to land. I would like to see James finish his career in Cleveland and become part owner of the team, that's the best chance for Cleveland to remain relevant in the NBA. I believe the League forbids active players from becoming part owners.

    Cavs play in the East where the 6-8 seeds are usually around .500 or worse and i could see this current roster minus LeBron making it in. They'll also have a top 10 pick,possibly top 3, to add a legit young player.
    If LeBron leaves the Cavs are no longer a destination team like they are now. They'd have to severely overpay mid-level type players to go there. And could pretty much forget about signing a top free agent. Who knows what happens regarding Gilbert selling the team but it's look like they have a competent GM,replace Lue and they could probably make the playoffs. would they be a finals contender? No but they look to be better setup than the last time LeBron left.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coach Lue isn't a problem.
    It isn't a foregone conclusion that Lebron James is going to leave.
    Given the outcome of yesterday's Boston vs. Cleveland game, well............................
    The outcome of the Draft will probably have a bearing on who goes where from what Teams.
    Free agents typically go where the money is and where they think they can have the most control.

    There are still almost 30 games to go, about 1/3 of the NBA season. In the course of about two weeks this thread has gone from the Cavs imploding and the future looking bleak --- to --- the Team having a possible resurgent shot at the finals and collapsing next season with Lebron James gone and no player in his right mind wanting to play in Cleveland.

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally I don't think LeBron is going anywhere. Cleveland is the best fit for his legacy. He is about Championships. Where would he go? Golden State? He would appear to only be a mercenary. Houston? That's more of a possibility as he could put them over the top. L.A.? That's the consensus but they need more than LeBron to win it all. James has lost half a step. Next year maybe a full step. In a couple years he may no longer be the best player in the League. Cleveland is the best fit for LeBron to win a championship and be responsible for it.

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think last night's game matters one bit if LeBron stays or not and outside of Lebron's bragging rights over Kyrie,it's just one loss that's it.
    We can agree to disagree on Lue. If i were Cavs fan and LeBron leaves,I'd want to see them start over which would include finding a new coach. Too many players in that huddle have seen Lebron take over the huddle to many times and it's a lot easier to replace the coach than it is some overpaid player.
    As for Lebron staying or not,they had a good win last night but that Cavs team isn't good enough to get by GS who has 4 All Stars starting and 2 former All Stars coming off the bench. I can see why Cavs fans hold out hope he stays but there are too many teams he could go to that would put that team on GS's level by adding Lebron like Houston,OKC,SA & Minnesota.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    to Coach Lue, I think he is perceived the way you describe because he's low key and doesn't seek out the limelight like the other "prima donna" Coaches in the League. his demeanor during games seems authentic to that and I would suppose he knows how to communicate with today's athlete.

    and Brick, we finally agree on something!!! Lebron is very tied into his roots and his children are following in his footsteps. my thought's would be that it was easy enough to make a major change in the life of his children when he came back to Cleveland but a move now would be really hard. for all the negative media he gets and fan "hate" he is low key off the court and very charitable. perhaps that is a common thread he shares with his Head Coach and why they are able to work together.

    with all that said, he may move on. this has been a season which really tested him.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    Coach Lue isn't a problem.
    It isn't a foregone conclusion that Lebron James is going to leave.
    Given the outcome of yesterday's Boston vs. Cleveland game, well............................
    The outcome of the Draft will probably have a bearing on who goes where from what Teams.
    Free agents typically go where the money is and where they think they can have the most control.

    There are still almost 30 games to go, about 1/3 of the NBA season. In the course of about two weeks this thread has gone from the Cavs imploding and the future looking bleak --- to --- the Team having a possible resurgent shot at the finals and collapsing next season with Lebron James gone and no player in his right mind wanting to play in Cleveland.

    I wish we could get into whether any players were kneeling during the anthem though. Then we would have covered it all

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to hear who you think is a prima-donna nba head coach. The only ones that are in the limelight are Kerr & Poppovich who have both earned their reputations and maybe Doc Rivers. The last guy that i would consider one is Phil Jackson but he hasn't coached in years.

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    keets - I actually agree with you quite a bit. Sometimes there is no need to post a +1. I posts more on the Cavs threads because I am a huge Cavs fan and seldom miss a game. I was a big Celtic fan when I was a youngster and it continued when they got Havlicek and through the Bird, McHale, Parrish years. When LeBron was drafted by Cleveland my allegiance changed in spite of the fact I had a minority ownership in the Celtics. :)

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    maybe prima donna was the wrong word, the guys I'm thinking about are the ones who pop a vein whenever there's a call they don't like.

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This Sports Talk Forum is a little bit like the Cable TV sports shows (i.e. ESPN and Fox Sports) when it comes to covering pro hoops.

    Center Stage is discussion of Le Bron James, with endless talk of "is he" or "isn't he" [leave or stay; win another title or not; slowing down or not; GOAT or not; will he pass Kareem or not as scoring leader]. All other pro hoops talk pales in comparison to talk of King James.

    Just as an aside, can you name any hoops player who can dunk with more power and authority than Le Bron James (especially when he gets a running start with a clear path to the hoop)?

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:
    This Sports Talk Forum is a little bit like the Cable TV sports shows (i.e. ESPN and Fox Sports) when it comes to covering pro hoops.

    Center Stage is discussion of Le Bron James, with endless talk of "is he" or "isn't he" [leave or stay; win another title or not; slowing down or not; GOAT or not; will he pass Kareem or not as scoring leader]. All other pro hoops talk pales in comparison to talk of King James.

    Just as an aside, can you name any hoops player who can dunk with more power and authority than Le Bron James (especially when he gets a running start with a clear path to the hoop)?

    Go watch some Russell Westbrook dunks, his are just as ferocious.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Spud webb?

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Point of Order , OP , I would like a clarification of the title of the thread.

    Isn't an implosion when something gets smaller or smushed inward ? How can an implosion therefore be bigger ?

    Is the title ironic in nature?

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:
    Point of Order , OP , I would like a clarification of the title of the thread.

    Isn't an implosion when something gets smaller or smushed inward ? How can an implosion therefore be bigger ?

    Is the title ironic in nature?

    Wouldn't LeBron & Gilbert both leaving the Cavs make them smaller. The hype around the team definitely would be.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is the title ironic in nature?

    my understanding of the thread title is that the Team was experiencing an inward collapse and that it might get bigger or more intense. given what was happening when the thread started I think it was very accurate.

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    +1 :)

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2018 7:42PM

    finally able to watch the Cavs with the "new" version of players and it looks promising. they look quick, push the ball downcourt and seem to be able to match the speed and athletic ability of OKC. Larry Nance looks very active around the glass and Clarkson can fly!!!

    so they close out OKC 120-112 with the new guys playing a lot in the game and allowing Lebron James to get some rest. if this is a realistic sample of what's to come I should be able to watch again.

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am impressed at how well they mesh together this quickly.

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Little known fact. The NBA actually folded, went out of business, around 20 years ago. The games you see on TV are replays of previous games, just with photo-shopped faces and uniforms.

    For example, LeBron James is actually Willis Reed.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Larry Nanace, Jr is playing like Sr.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    Larry Nanace, Jr is playing like Sr.

    If you haven't read this yet,its a pretty good write-up on how all the Cavs deals came together at the deadline.
    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/Woj22432626/how-cleveland-cavaliers-changed-their-season-flurry-trades-adrian-wojnarowski

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    wow, more "fluff" about how Lebron James is running everything and nothing gets done without his approval, it's nauseating.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as the Cavs gm going all out to remake the team before the deadline.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the Cleveland Cavaliers general manager sought a most elusive engagement: a sit-down with LeBron James.
    very first paragraph, like he needed to talk with Lebron to get his opinion and make sure it was OK.

    Altman assured James that management was determined to uproot the roster and fight to restore order
    this is the set-up for the previous and upcoming stories about Lebron leaving.

    it's all the typical national media led by espn about who runs the Team and that if anything happens it has to be OK with Lebron James.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well Espn is Espn. I didn't put much into the LeBron part of it. I do think its telling how much respect they had for Dwayne Wade while they were looking to get IT out of there as fast as possible. He pretty much has ruined his reputation in just 15 games in Cleveland.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As seen today in LA.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :D

  • pocketpiececommemspocketpiececommems Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If James moves to LA then Lavar Ball can coach him and his 3 sons. They wouldn't need a fifth player because Lavar would be a player coach since he is better that Michal Jordan. :o

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As seen today in LA.

    as Lebron and the Cavs will be seen tonight and Sunday in LA.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems like the Cavs were here on vacation. The got blown out by the Clippers and Lakers. Don't know what to make out of them.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    Seems like the Cavs were here on vacation. The got blown out by the Clippers and Lakers. Don't know what to make out of them.

    mark

    they're garbage and LeBron is outtie after this season. they attempted to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t, but the menu never changed. if they make the Finals, they'll be run off the floor by the Warriors or Rockets.

    if.

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 9,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They were going to go thru some growing pains after adding that many new faces in one day during the season so how they play today doesn't matter compared to how they play two months from now. They've had no problem with Toronto the past couple years and Cleveland is definitely in Boston's head after that last game a few weeks ago. Houston has had a great season but until they get by GS come playoff time,it means nothing. I won't say the Cavs are better than GS but their chances are better with this current team than they were with the IT,Wade,Rose,Crowder Cavs from 2 months ago.
    Is Kevin Love even back yet? Getting back an All Star right before the playoffs should help bigtime.

  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Injuries have certainly hurt the Cavs. It seems they have a different starting lineup regularly. But the largest obstacle they can't seem to recover from is losing Kyrie.

    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

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