Looks like the Cavs implosion is gonna be bigger than expected

erikthredd

ESPN's Stephen A. Smith is reporting that Dan Gilbert is looking to sell the team.

galaxy27

time to max out before Bron Bron jets

Brick

He may have waited a year too long.

BillyKingsley

Not really a secret. LeBron has talked about buying it when he retires already. Unfortunately the NBA does not allow playing and owning or coaching at the same time.

Coinstartled

I suspect his gain on the sale will be spectacular.

BLUEJAYWAY

What would be the sale price w/o the Lebron franchise included in the deal.

BLUEJAYWAY

@Brick said:
He may have waited a year too long.

Entirely possible. As with cards, best to sell on the rise up than the fall down.

erikthredd

Last team that sold was the Rockets at 2.2 billion last september

SanctionII

Maybe if Dan Gilbert (and any other franchise owner) is not conducting himself or herself in a manner that is deemed by the other owners, the commissioner, the player's association and/or star players (like the King, etc.) to be acceptable, a movement could begin to call for and to cause the owner to have the franchise sold to someone more "appropriate" and more "acceptable" against his or her will and wishes.

Has Dan Gilbert (or any other owner) done or said anything to make him or her disliked in the similar or same vane as Donald Sterling?

I also watched morning Sports TV today and saw multiple discussions about dissension in the Cavs lockeroom, with reports that Isiah Thomas was throwing shade at Kevin Love.

Some commentators were saying is out of line since Thomas has only been playing with the club for a few weeks and does not have the gravitas to pull off jumping down another player's throat. Lots of other comments and speculations about the Cavs also.

The NBA does seem to have many, many side stories this season that seem to belong in the realm of the "Housewives" reality shows.

keets

and the wolves have descended. now it seems it isn't just satisfying to "hate" Lebron James, it feels good to "hate" the entire franchise he plays for and to even speculate that there may be something fishy going on. this is the sports version of FOX News, and all because a Team is struggling to win. eerily strange that nobody was even mentioning the player or the Team back in November and December.

my hunch is that the ship will be righted and everything will work out. possibly the run of Championship series' will end for Lebron James, but as fans I would expect us all to dwell on that accomplishment and not to drool over its ending.

why would the OP be so adamant about defending the Patriots and so willing to "hate" on another sports franchise that has been in the spotlight for awhile? I suppose that is just the way we all follow sports.

BTW, did anyone notice that the Boston Celtics won last night?? thay had lost four games, hadn't won in a week and there were crickets!! it happens in sports, Teams slump. the Cavs are in a tough spot now so I guess it is time to dog-pile-on-the-rabbit.

erikthredd

Keets how am i hating on the Cavs? Because i used the word Implosion? or because i posted the team might be sold?
So you don't care when someone starts a thread to make fun of your team giving up 148 points in a game but you have a problem when i start a thread for what is a much bigger story that the team might be sold? Gotcha.

Where have you ever seen me type that i hate Lebron James? I'll wait for you to go back thru all of my comments on this site and show me when i have ever said anything close to i hate Lebron. I've never even said anything close to hating the Cavs either.
I do think Lebron has that team hostage to the point no one respects the head coach but thats the price they paid to have the best basketball player on the planet come back to the team,which Lebron gained a ton of respect from me for making that decision after it all ended the first time.

You mention me defending the Pats "hating", you want to hate the Pats go right ahead. I have a problem when those same people turn around and make Pats fans the story and not the team. It happens on every single comment section talking about the Patriots when a Pats fan disagrees non-Pats fans.

As for the Boston Celtics,i don't see what mentioning them here has to do with anything. How often do the Celtics even get brought up in the Sports Talk section,maybe one or twice a month if that even though they're still the best team in the conference after a 4 game losing streak.

bronco2078

Isiah could have poisoned the cavs . The way after he got traded he acted like a 4 year old was a bad look for him. Its not as though he was traded to an awful team , he gets to play with LeBron now , most would consider being on the floor with the best player in the league a plus. He wants all the attention and is butthurt about sharing that with others. He was arguably the best player on the celtics last year now he is what 3rd or 4th best on the cavs?

larryallen73

The Isaiah Thomas thing is weird. I have liked him since the Kings drafted him and then let him go for nothing. Integrating him into a good team will take some time but I suspect they will figure it out. Although now they are talking about trading for George Hill which I don't really understand.

erikthredd

@bronco2078 said:
Isiah could have poisoned the cavs . The way after he got traded he acted like a 4 year old was a bad look for him. Its not as though he was traded to an awful team , he gets to play with LeBron now , most would consider being on the floor with the best player in the league a plus. He wants all the attention and is butthurt about sharing that with others. He was arguably the best player on the celtics last year now he is what 3rd or 4th best on the cavs?

Ainge should try to make a deal to bring him back to Boston, IT is exactly what the Celtics need coming off the bench, a reliable scorer. This will never happen though.

keets

as I have said elsewhere, part of the problem was the trade for Thomas, other new players and injuries. around Christmas the injured players were returning and that's when the problems started. I would ask if the Cavs are better having Thomas start or Jose Caldron??? that is a big part of it since I think Calderon is a better overall player but Thomas is a better scorer.

add to the mix that the Cavs have played most of the season without a true Center and it has finally caught up to them. they have no boards on offense and are slow to get back after a missed shot or turnover and it's killing them. it isn't a realistic approach, but the Team needs to learn how to play together before they can learn how to win consistently.

erikthredd

@keets said:
as I have said elsewhere, part of the problem was the trade for Thomas, other new players and injuries. around Christmas the injured players were returning and that's when the problems started. I would ask if the Cavs are better having Thomas start or Jose Caldron??? that is a big part of it since I think Calderon is a better overall player but Thomas is a better scorer.

add to the mix that the Cavs have played most of the season without a true Center and it has finally caught up to them. they have no boards on offense and are slow to get back after a missed shot or turnover and it's killing them. it isn't a realistic approach, but the Team needs to learn how to play together before they can learn how to win consistently.

Well said. Honestly IT is a great scorer but he limits the team in everything else he does and like you said with his injury,he's not ready to get full time minutes. With Cleveland's problems on defense it doesn't make sense to be starting Thomas. I don't know how much time he's actually been on the floor practicing with the Cavs since he got there but you would think it might not have been much till recently. I haven't kept track of their other injuries aside from IT but i did read he called out Kevin Love recently for leaving a game sick or something like that. I don't think IT has earned that right in the locker room when he's literally done nothing for the team yet.

Boston's problems right now are they have 2/3rds of their roster full of first & second year players. They've been without their 2nd best player in Hayward (like the Cavs lost Kyrie) and had to rely on way too many young players playing major minutes to the point it finally caught up with them. Ainge brought in 10 new faces this past offseason and only the biggest Celtics homers really thought they would have been this good that fast. That was even assuming Hayward would have been part of the team.
Even if the C's end up with the 1st seed again they still have to go thru the Cavs come playoff time. Until that happens your Cavs are still the favorite to get to the Finals.

keets

I think Kevin Love has a history of back problems.

erikthredd

Speaking of injuries,especially a stupid one, Celtics guard Marcus Smart swipes at a hotel room picture lacerating his hand and causing him to now miss probably a week or two. Moron.

bronco2078

@erikthredd said:
Speaking of injuries,especially a stupid one, Celtics guard Marcus Smart swipes at a hotel room picture lacerating his hand and causing him to now miss probably a week or two. Moron.

Didn't the other idiot do that a few years back? Punching a wall or something?

erikthredd

I don't know who you mean but Boston sports talk radio hinting this might have happened after a girlfriend of Smart posted pics on Instagram of the two of them smoking weed while holding large bags of pot. Sounds like his injury happened the same night the pics went public. Don't know how accurate this is but Marcus just came out and apologized publicly to his teammates. Weird stuff.

bronco2078

The other idiot would be Rondo

keets

watching the Cavs try to hold on and win against the Pacers it appears that their recent struggles have gotten into the player's heads. strangely, as they have gotten healthy physically they seem to have suffered mentally.

erikthredd

@keets said:
watching the Cavs try to hold on and win against the Pacers it appears that their recent struggles have gotten into the player's heads. strangely, as they have gotten healthy physically they seem to have suffered mentally.

I just saw the Kevin Love rebound where he bent down to hand it to Thomas and i gotta say good for Kevin for giving it back to IT,no pun intended. I had a ton of respect for Isaiah after what he played thru during this past postseason but since he got sent to the Cavs he's done nothing but whine while acting like he's a top 5 NBA superstar. The Cavs GM should deal him out of there before it gets worse IMO.

Here's the Love rebound for anyone that missed it.
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/27/16940012/kevin-love-isaiah-thomas-cavaliers-rebound-hand-off-dont-like-each-other

Justacommeman

Here is a crazy betting stat. The Cavs are 0-7 on National TV since Christmas Day and have never led in the 4th quarter in any of them

mark

Brick

Those stats may be deceiving. They are actually not playing that well.

Coinstartled

Getting smoked tonight.

Justacommeman

Ouch. I watched for 5 minutes. They are literally unwatchable right now

mark

erikthredd

Cavs just traded Isaiah Thomas,Channing Frye & the Cavs 2018 1st round pick to the Lakers for Larry Nance & Jordan Clarkson.

edit: Cavs then made a 3 team deal with the Kings & Jazz
Full 3-team trade details:

Kings receive:
Joe Johnson
Iman Shumpert

Jazz receive:
Derrick Rose
Jae Crowder

Cleveland receives:
Rodney Hood
George Hill

edit #2 lol: Cavs send Dwayne Wade back to Miami for a protected 2nd round pick

keets

here's my take on all that's happened:
Once Thomas came back something happened, the Team was better, way better, with him in street clothes as a cheerleader. though I assume everyone will want to say "Lebron James" cleared house I don't see that.
Isaiah Thomas has been injured and still doesn't seem healthy.
Channing Frye is a 36 year old guy that stayed on, he should have retired.
Derrick Rose isn't healthy.
Iman Shumpert isn't healthy.
Jae Crowder is a good guy but has been inconsistent.

I don't know anything about who Cleveland got but I know what they traded, injured players. Dwayne Wade was a good fit, I think he was a victim of the Thomas debacle and I will miss seeing him play.

erikthredd

They got younger & more athletic with all of these deals. I don't think it gets them past GS but it probably makes a potential Boston-Cleveland playoff matchup more evenly matched than it might have been a week ago. Even if it doesn't help them win the finals this year,they'll have some decent role players locked up for a few years for whatever next season's team looks like.

Cavs still have 2hrs before the deadline,i wouldn't be surprised if they try to move some of these guys they just got to the Clippers for DeAndre Jordan.

edit: I've never seen a player act so entitled like we just watched how IT acted after he got to Cleveland. From the whining about getting traded to all the recent "adjustment" complaints about Ty Lue and everything in between. Its pretty crazy how disruptive he really was in such a short amount of time in Cleveland.

erikthredd

delete

Brick

One thing I noticed this year is when the Cavs were solid (18-1?) Jose Calderon was in the starting lineup. Now he is no super star or even a starter on most teams but he handled the ball well with very few mistakes. He was replaced with a lot of flash and a lot of miscues.

keets

Starting line-up:
Lebron James.
Kevin Love. --- currently out with a broken bone in his hand.
Tristan Thompson.
Jose Calderone.
JR Smith.

off the bench:
Jeff Green.
Kyle Korver.
Cedi Osman.
whoever they just acquired.

totally serviceable Team that should be better than what they "forced" onto the court pre-trade.

erikthredd

@keets said:
Starting line-up:
Lebron James.
Kevin Love.
Tristan Thompson.
Jose Calderone.
JR Smith.

off the bench:
Jeff Green.
Kyle Korver.
Cedi Osman.
whoever they just acquired.

totally serviceable Team that should be better than what they "forced" onto the court pre-trade.

Cavs definitely got better after yesterday's deals just with the addition by subtraction of Rose & IT. George Hill is a a really good "3 & D" guy,an upgrade to Jae Crowder, Rodney Hood should add some scoring off the bench and Jordan Clarkson is gonna be a solid backup point guard. I don't know too much about Larry Nance jr outside of he's a dunk contest guy with hops that should be a fan favorite type of player of the bench.
I'd say the only thing that could be a negative is they might take awhile to start playing as a unit with the rest of the Cavs lineup.

keets

it will take Lue at least 10-15 games to find the right combinations. since the Cavs play game 55 tonight that gives them 27 more till season's end. in a strange way, if the trades solve the problem everyone should be on the same page and playing good together, if not the Team will only lose what remains of a terrible year.

SanctionII

I hope the Cavs pull things together, jell with the new players and steamroll into the playoffs. It would be great for pro hoops fans to have the Eastern and Western Conference playoffs be dog fights this season. Last year both Cleveland and GS steamrolled opponents on their way to a 3rd straight finals. This year I want both Conferences to have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round series be evenly matched with 6 and 7 game series.

erikthredd

@SanctionII said:
I hope the Cavs pull things together, jell with the new players and steamroll into the playoffs. It would be great for pro hoops fans to have the Eastern and Western Conference playoffs be dog fights this season. Last year both Cleveland and GS steamrolled opponents on their way to a 3rd straight finals. This year I want both Conferences to have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round series be evenly matched with 6 and 7 game series.

I think this years Celtics,Raptors & Bucks teams are all better than they were a year ago and whatever two teams make it to the ECF,it should be a more competitive series compared to the Cavs taking 4 of 5 vs Boston. The Raptors have a pretty deep bench this time around,the Bucks look to be playing well and the Wizards are a deep team if John Wall comes back healthy.
Boston just added a solid center to come off the bench in Greg Monroe,have about 3-4M in available cap space for a potential buy-out player in the coming weeks not to mention they might get Gordon Hayward back by playoff time.
In the WCF the Rockets,Spurs (if Kawhi comes back healthy),Wolves & Thunder all look like they could make a playoff run but getting bye GS in a 7 game series sounds easier said than done.

galaxy27

the gap between Golden State & the rest of the west and Cleveland & the rest of the east has shrunk considerably this season. in fact, if neither team appears in the finals it won't surprise me one bit. if the Warriors get there, rest assured they'll be battered and bruised by the Rockets and/or the Thunder along the way. this season they are 1-4 against those two teams, and the one win was against a Harden-less Houston team.

as for the Cavs, it's anyone's guess what they'll do moving forward with a revamped roster. but imo the moves they made won't mean jack squat if they meet a legit team like Golden State or Houston in the finals.

as for IT, he's little more than a diminutive scorer. if he can't put the ball in hole, he's a liability on the court. he has 28 games to audition for a prominent role on some team's roster, otherwise he will slowly but surely be phased out of the league.

keets

I watched the first half of the Cavs/Hawks game last night and they played with more energy and better defense even though the roster was limited to just 10 players. that makes it impossible to judge the "trades" but those guys will play in Boston on Sunday, so that'll be a good test as they see spot time.

my hope from all this is more playing time for Jose Calderone and Jeff Green. they are part of the "energy" that happened last night. neither guy will give you big points but: Calderone is better on defense and brings the ball down-court to allow James to work in the offense, Green is good for 15-20 points, rebounds and always lets you know he's on the court.

I can only assume that maybe the Team's head is better if Thomas was the negative influence that's being reported.

bronco2078

@keets said:
I watched the first half of the Cavs/Hawks game last night and they played with more energy and better defense even though the roster was limited to just 10 players. that makes it impossible to judge the "trades" but those guys will play in Boston on Sunday, so that'll be a good test as they see spot time.

my hope from all this is more playing time for Jose Calderone and Jeff Green. they are part of the "energy" that happened last night. neither guy will give you big points but: Calderone is better on defense and brings the ball down-court to allow James to work in the offense, Green is good for 15-20 points, rebounds and always lets you know he's on the court.

I can only assume that maybe the Team's head is better if Thomas was the negative influence that's being reported.

They always blame the guy they traded , in this case though it might actually be true. Best part though, the next time the Cavs come to Boston at least we don't have to listen to the Thomas BS .

keets

I won't pretend to be any kind of "insider" who knows anything, but whenever I watched any games there wasn't much coverage given locally about the negative aspects being reported. the lone incident was the one involving Kevin Love and there was a brief interview with Thomas wherein he smoothed everything over and tended to minimize what the National reports were. players all have media they trust and go to so what was coming out was no doubt true. here, the local media either chose not to report it, I didn't hear/read it or they were complicit in the Cavs PR to keep things quiet.

the main talk seemed to center on Lue and how the Coach had "lost" the Team. certainly he isn't Steve Kerr, Phil Jackson or any one of that caliber but he works well with what he has and uses his assistants. his demeanor is low key, I don't see him as the problem, so maybe your assessment is right. it all may be that Thomas brought too much drama to the floor and was unable to back it up with his play.

I am not one who agrees with the opinion of many that Lebron James is a drama queen, but even if that's a view that someone holds there is no denying that he backs up everything with his play on the court. from that perspective it should be interesting to see how he helps make the new players better.

erikthredd

@bronco2078 said:

They always blame the guy they traded , in this case though it might actually be true. Best part though, the next time the Cavs come to Boston at least we don't have to listen to the Thomas BS .

All the hoopla over IT's "tribute" video was all for nothing in the end. Its sad how he went from a huge fan favorite to sounding like a spoiled 5yr old. This may sound crazy but if LA buys out his contract and releases him,i'd love to see him back in Boston as a scorer off the bench but i doubt his ego would let that happen.

@keets all those moves the Cavs made definitely made them a better team,how much better remains to be seen. Calderon is a solid point guard and with all of his international experience knows how to run an offense but my opinion is Jordan Clarkson has more upside because of his scoring ability. Who knows how the playoffs play out in the coming months but if Lebron does leave Cleveland this summer,the Cavs should have a better roster going forward than one with
IT,Wade,Crowder,Rose & Frye and no Lebron. So at minimum,life after Lebron looks better than it did a week ago.

keets

is Clarkson the 6'8" point guard or is that someone else??

erikthredd

@keets said:
is Clarkson the 6'8" point guard or is that someone else??

He's 6'5", you might be thinking of Ben Simmons or Lonzo Ball who are both tall for point guards.

Brick

I don't see Cleveland in the hunt for any Championship without LeBron. Championships are what they play for. The only reason free agents have gone to Cleveland is because LeBron is there. After he is gone it will again be a place to have your agent keep you far away from.

Justacommeman

@Brick said:
I don't see Cleveland in the hunt for any Championship without LeBron. Championships are what they play for. The only reason free agents have gone to Cleveland is because LeBron is there. After he is gone it will again be a place to have your agent keep you far away from.

Sadly I agree with you

m

keets

well, maybe the end isn't here and maybe the "implosion" isn't what we all thought it was.

amid all the turmoil in the aftermath of the Irving trade and the Thomas debacle, with the Cavs rebuilding between a third and a half of the Team we witness the Sunday afternoon beat-down of the Boston Celtics #1 NBA defense in Boston on a Nationally televised game. if you watched it, please explain to me what happened because it doesn't make sense. the only thing I can figure is that Cleveland had become old and slow to the point where it was constantly exploited by their opponents. now, with fresh younger legs they may be able to play better defense and score more off the fast break.

I understand it's only one game but it was a nice start against a very worthy opponent.

erikthredd

The implosion comment was from 2 weeks ago after the owner made it public he was going to sell the team and I doubt this one game changes anything. Odds are LeBron is still leaving so beating the Celtics on a regular season game means nothing.
You want to know what happened? Cavs hit their shots,the Celtics didn't. It's as simple as that. I've already told you Cleveland got better at the deadline so I don't see your point of calling out a comment from weeks ago.

Brick

Effort! effort! effort! No ole defense. They made it difficult for the Celtics to score. A couple weeks ago the Cavs should have had to buy a ticket to get into the game as they stood like statues as the other team attacked the basket.

erikthredd

@Brick said:
Effort! effort! effort! No ole defense. They made it difficult for the Celtics to score. A couple weeks ago the Cavs should have had to buy a ticket to get into the game as they stood like statues as the other team attacked the basket.

Boston made it easy for the Cavs jacking up three after three with one in four actually falling in. This the Celtics biggest weakness,falling in love with the three point line and when they're not hitting them they lose. The Cavs looked great and i wasn't surprised. I know enough about the guys they added to know they'd get better on both ends of the court.

keets

erik, don't be so sensitive.