I suppose it is good for some that Gold is going up, but is good for everyone that the Dollar is going down?? note the word "sabotage" used by the Captain because that's what is happening, more manipulation that hurts the masses for the benefit of the few.
Gold Bullion Coins - slabbed in 69-70 a large part of my inventory. This uptick exciting as now their BV greater than my cost. I have an upcoming show mid Feb - do I buy more or do profit taking. I can buy these coins at the show cheaper than on eBay.
I believe this uptick will benefit other areas like the sagging dollar market. The gold uptick is spilling over into silver and this is exciting too. I have a large inventory of standard range slabbed coins mod silver Commems and ASE would like prune down. A recent retail sale of a vintage top range type coin on eBay at a good margin was a pleasant surprise this week.
Time to buy coins may be now - Market on way up. This may be time dump some expensive numismatic coins get into nice slabbed AGE / AGB. Also looking for nice slabbed DE close to melt bulk up on.
The only thing that gold going up will allow me to do is to offload onto someone a few items I have that need gold to go higher to cover costs, ex: some 69 Merc Centennials that after grading fees, shipping, carrying costs, etc. I am a little underwater one. So in my particular case, yes it is good for my hobby,
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Gold has been rising for hundreds of years , with the exception of the melting temperature. Then , since it's malleable , it gets manipulated from time to time.
The pricing of precious metals has nothing to do with the numismatic value of coins. It will affect the value of coins with closer ties to bullion, but I don't consider an 04 S Double Eagle to be a numismatic coin, except in supergrades, due to its scarcity in such grades.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
the Stock Market and Dollar usually run contrary to Gold and Silver. it was strange to watch everything fall today along with the Stock Market, off 600+ points.
@keets said:
the Stock Market and Dollar usually run contrary to Gold and Silver. it was strange to watch everything fall today along with the Stock Market, off 600+ points.
I'll take a 1% gold drop when the entire market takes a 2.5% dump. Even those bitcoin kids got wacked another 8-10% today.
The whole game is upside down. The only thing that is certain is the debt continues to climb no matter who's policy we follow so I'll hold my boring gold and silver and watch what happens. Paper is just paper.
By the way I started stacking bullion in the early 2000's which ultimately carried over to coin collecting and I have met others with similar paths so I'd say it's good for the hobby. Brings in more prospective collectors.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Stock Market, and/or the economy's condition is more significant. I remember forecasts that if gold went up as it has premiums on gold would go up a lot more.
@Elcontador said:
The pricing of precious metals has nothing to do with the numismatic value of coins. It will affect the value of coins with closer ties to bullion, but I don't consider an 04 S Double Eagle to be a numismatic coin, except in supergrades, due to its scarcity in such grades.
That was one of the issues initially suggested. MS63s and below are at one end and MS66 and above at the other. The 4s and 5s seem to be caught in the middle when it comes to the fluctuations in the price of gold influencing their pricing. Of course there are certain dates that keep some of those 4s and 5s Double Eagles more insulated from their pricing being dictated by the price of gold as exceptions to the general trend.
waiting to see what happens this week, the last 10 days have been pretty shaky but the Gold price seems to be stubbornly holding on. I don't think it's outside of possibility that Gold goes under $1,300 and Silver under $16.
right now the Silver/Gold ratio is about 80:1 which is ridiculous. the ratio for several years has been hovering around 75:1, with Silver at $16.40 that would mean Gold at $1,230. What/Who is holding Gold up and forcing Silver down??
when world economies settled down post WWII, around 1950, until around 1985 when the US was getting ready to issue Bullion coins the ratio of Silver/Gold hovered between 25-40:1. when PM's skyrocketed back in 2012 that magic number was again reached --- with Silver at $50 and Gold at $1,700 the ratio is 35:1!!
I think it is great. I bought a 1924 ms 64 Saint for a bit over $1,300 because they are so beautiful relative to a type one $20. I could sell it right back to the dealer I bought it form for a profit as a result of the recent spike in gold. I think common date Saints $20 that move with the spot price of gold are great to hold. You have two ways to make money, bullion moves and potential for type collectors wanting this type of coin for their example.
Interest rates and inflation are nearing and this spells higher gold prices.
So my answer is absolutely but not for retirement investments. I remember when gold was $810 an oz in 1981 and $280 in 2001 and $2,500 in 2008/2009. A great trading opportunity.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@keets said:
the Hunt Brothers were cheated by our Uncle who changed the rules on them.
Actually, if they would have held it for 30 years they could have broke even.
Had they not been screwed by the government, their plan would have crushed the Ponzi scheme that comprises the US monetary policy.
Why no one complains that making a legal commodity ILLEGAL was a violation of everything honest about this national cesspool is amazing.
Creating a RULE that ONLY....sell....orders could be exercised on Comex was a high crime of enormous magnitude.
But so what? We now have our money backed by bad mortgages and banker manipulations so ...party on.
I don't disagree that many of us have had a bite out of our heinies from time-to-time because of buying high priced silver. Some people have had really really big bites in the posterior.
Nevertheless, bread and butter money/profit comes from buying and selling 90% junk silver, silverware and other scrap silver. This material flows out better when prices edge up. The profits from this silver trade tend to slip or ooze into numismatic channels. Silver profits fuel willingness to do the other better coins.
@BillDugan1959 said:
I don't disagree that many of us have had a bite out of our heinies from time-to-time because of buying high priced silver. Some people have had really really big bites in the posterior.
Nevertheless, bread and butter money/profit comes from buying and selling 90% junk silver, silverware and other scrap silver. This material flows out better when prices edge up. The profits from this silver trade tend to slip or ooze into numismatic channels. Silver profits fuel willingness to do the other better coins.
That is VERY true. SILVER made more profits for me as a dealer than gold ever did.
There will never be a shortage of silver for people to have to sell to get money.
All I'll add is that a dealer friend watches the gold market and every time gold is on the upswing on a Thursday before a coin show he tells me he's going to have a really good show. I like to think he is a typical midsized dealer as he deals in a little of everything including paper. His stuff is both raw and graded.
Again, I'm not disagreeing, but some folks around here do wonder whether or not a lot of (or most of) scrap gold and misc. silver hasn't been permanently sucked out of the potential selling community since the late 1970s.
Lots of people live their lives okay, but they aren't really doing well enough to buy very many precious metals items anymore. A few women get nice stuff from men, but neither the givers nor the recipients know much about what they are buying and giving and getting, and the big jewelry stores are well-known to sell poor shoddy quality stuff at high prices.
Lots of the gold and silver that you do see is estate stuff, the people who had it obtained it fifty to eighty years ago and their children and grandchildren want to sell the precious metals to smooth over their present lives. But current generations aren't putting too much of this aside presently. Coin people and 'fringe' coin folks are exceptions.
@keets said:
the Hunt Brothers were cheated by our Uncle who changed the rules on them.
Actually, if they would have held it for 30 years they could have broke even.
Had they not been screwed by the government, their plan would have crushed the Ponzi scheme that comprises the US monetary policy.
Why no one complains that making a legal commodity ILLEGAL was a violation of everything honest about this national cesspool is amazing.
Creating a RULE that ONLY....sell....orders could be exercised on Comex was a high crime of enormous magnitude.
But so what? We now have our money backed by bad mortgages and banker manipulations so ...party on.
Disgusting.
Yeah, and I'm still sore about Joan Langbord getting hosed because her grandpa tried to spare coins from the melting pot. Imagine if anyone were to come out with a real 1964 D Peace Dollar. That would probably lead to an all out war and ultimate confiscation.
No statute of limitations with shenanigans at the highest levels, but at the manufacturing level, by God we are going to get it right... , right ?
Sorry. You're getting me off track. U.S. Coins and the hobby will withstand and survive all the sordid tales we can think of.
In fact , the volatility creates the stir and buzz. Not sure it contributes to "collecting". Maybe stacking.
Yes and No. China will not be a big buyer of our debt (T. Bills) anymore. Rates will rise, then soar IMHO. When? My crystal ball is a little foggy. Gold should do well as the dollar declines. Coin collections should benefit as a "Hard" asset.
For coin collectors - not precious metal speculators - increasing values for silver and gold create higher values for common coins, and this discourages new purchasers. When added to the absurd fad of sticking ordinary coins into expensive plastic holders under the guide of "objective grading," the universe of potential new collectors shrinks.
Heading back up and beyond that $1,350 benchmark once again, or will we continue to see the oscillations of recent weeks that seemed to threaten a drop below $1,300?
If you own the generic gold coins it is good and if gold gets to the point you a $100-$150 profit on the coin because of a run up in the spot price for gold take you profit. I will drop and you can repurchase when everyone else is selling.
I like when gold is down and I can pick up some on sale. I think of gold as long term. It also does not effect much on the rare coin side short term. But your 100% correct. We all have to do more and more for the same. Its a big pile of gravel you must make it to the top but, someone keeps adding to the pile.
Everyone seemed way more excited and happier at coins shows when silver was in the high 30's. I think a run up in bullion prices is a rising tide that lifts all boats.
Comments
I suppose it is good for some that Gold is going up, but is good for everyone that the Dollar is going down?? note the word "sabotage" used by the Captain because that's what is happening, more manipulation that hurts the masses for the benefit of the few.
Gold Bullion Coins - slabbed in 69-70 a large part of my inventory. This uptick exciting as now their BV greater than my cost. I have an upcoming show mid Feb - do I buy more or do profit taking. I can buy these coins at the show cheaper than on eBay.
I believe this uptick will benefit other areas like the sagging dollar market. The gold uptick is spilling over into silver and this is exciting too. I have a large inventory of standard range slabbed coins mod silver Commems and ASE would like prune down. A recent retail sale of a vintage top range type coin on eBay at a good margin was a pleasant surprise this week.
Time to buy coins may be now - Market on way up. This may be time dump some expensive numismatic coins get into nice slabbed AGE / AGB. Also looking for nice slabbed DE close to melt bulk up on.
The only thing that gold going up will allow me to do is to offload onto someone a few items I have that need gold to go higher to cover costs, ex: some 69 Merc Centennials that after grading fees, shipping, carrying costs, etc. I am a little underwater one. So in my particular case, yes it is good for my hobby,
K
And now Trump sabotages the Secretary of the Treasury's sabotage of the U.S. Dollar:
http://www.kitco.com/news/2018-01-25/Donald-Trump-s-Strong-Dollar-Comments-Push-Gold-Prices-To-Session-Lows.html
I have no idea what in Hades is going on!
I think at the time of Trump's inauguration last year the US Dollar vs. other currency stood around 1.03, it is currently around 89 cents.
The Dollar has now slipped below 89.
that is not good.
Seems to be hanging in the $1340 to $1350 range. Today:
Gold
$1,345.30 (+6.80)
01-31 4:59 PM EST
Gold has been rising for hundreds of years , with the exception of the melting temperature. Then , since it's malleable , it gets manipulated from time to time.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Actually, if they would have held it for 30 years they could have broke even.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The pricing of precious metals has nothing to do with the numismatic value of coins. It will affect the value of coins with closer ties to bullion, but I don't consider an 04 S Double Eagle to be a numismatic coin, except in supergrades, due to its scarcity in such grades.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I believe it will because dollar is weakening
Did today’s drop lead anyone to coin collecting ? I have my doubts.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
the Stock Market and Dollar usually run contrary to Gold and Silver. it was strange to watch everything fall today along with the Stock Market, off 600+ points.
I'll take a 1% gold drop when the entire market takes a 2.5% dump. Even those bitcoin kids got wacked another 8-10% today.
The whole game is upside down. The only thing that is certain is the debt continues to climb no matter who's policy we follow so I'll hold my boring gold and silver and watch what happens. Paper is just paper.
By the way I started stacking bullion in the early 2000's which ultimately carried over to coin collecting and I have met others with similar paths so I'd say it's good for the hobby. Brings in more prospective collectors.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Stock Market, and/or the economy's condition is more significant. I remember forecasts that if gold went up as it has premiums on gold would go up a lot more.
That was one of the issues initially suggested. MS63s and below are at one end and MS66 and above at the other. The 4s and 5s seem to be caught in the middle when it comes to the fluctuations in the price of gold influencing their pricing. Of course there are certain dates that keep some of those 4s and 5s Double Eagles more insulated from their pricing being dictated by the price of gold as exceptions to the general trend.
Gold
$1,343.20 (+2.70)
02-06 12:11 AM EST
So after a brief hiatus we are back into that range once again.
Certainly a sound choice. I think diversification is still key.
waiting to see what happens this week, the last 10 days have been pretty shaky but the Gold price seems to be stubbornly holding on. I don't think it's outside of possibility that Gold goes under $1,300 and Silver under $16.
right now the Silver/Gold ratio is about 80:1 which is ridiculous. the ratio for several years has been hovering around 75:1, with Silver at $16.40 that would mean Gold at $1,230. What/Who is holding Gold up and forcing Silver down??
Rise in gold prices will likely divert non bullion coin funds into bullion.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Gold
$1,330.40 (+6.50)
02-13 3:10 PM EST
At least for now gold is back at the $1,330 range where we were at the beginning of this thread in early January.
Interesting observations by keets regarding the yin and yang relationship of silver and gold. Definitely difficult to predict the unpredictable.
when world economies settled down post WWII, around 1950, until around 1985 when the US was getting ready to issue Bullion coins the ratio of Silver/Gold hovered between 25-40:1. when PM's skyrocketed back in 2012 that magic number was again reached --- with Silver at $50 and Gold at $1,700 the ratio is 35:1!!
Gold
$1,357.50 (+26.30)
02-14 1:29 PM EST
OK, what's going on here? Less than 24 hours and well above the $1350 level again.
I think it is great. I bought a 1924 ms 64 Saint for a bit over $1,300 because they are so beautiful relative to a type one $20. I could sell it right back to the dealer I bought it form for a profit as a result of the recent spike in gold. I think common date Saints $20 that move with the spot price of gold are great to hold. You have two ways to make money, bullion moves and potential for type collectors wanting this type of coin for their example.
Interest rates and inflation are nearing and this spells higher gold prices.
So my answer is absolutely but not for retirement investments. I remember when gold was $810 an oz in 1981 and $280 in 2001 and $2,500 in 2008/2009. A great trading opportunity.
I don't remember gold hitting $2,500.
Was I sleeping?
Had they not been screwed by the government, their plan would have crushed the Ponzi scheme that comprises the US monetary policy.
Why no one complains that making a legal commodity ILLEGAL was a violation of everything honest about this national cesspool is amazing.
Creating a RULE that ONLY....sell....orders could be exercised on Comex was a high crime of enormous magnitude.
But so what? We now have our money backed by bad mortgages and banker manipulations so ...party on.
Disgusting.
Significant percentage rises in the price of SILVER (not gold) tend to fuel the regular U.S. coin market. I have seen this time and time again.
IMHO, silver would gave to be $24 or $25 per Troy ounce before people loosen up and start to feel more optimistic.
Silver is good for surgical use.
It has cut the hearts out of so many people that I've lost count.
I don't disagree that many of us have had a bite out of our heinies from time-to-time because of buying high priced silver. Some people have had really really big bites in the posterior.
Nevertheless, bread and butter money/profit comes from buying and selling 90% junk silver, silverware and other scrap silver. This material flows out better when prices edge up. The profits from this silver trade tend to slip or ooze into numismatic channels. Silver profits fuel willingness to do the other better coins.
That is VERY true. SILVER made more profits for me as a dealer than gold ever did.
There will never be a shortage of silver for people to have to sell to get money.
All I'll add is that a dealer friend watches the gold market and every time gold is on the upswing on a Thursday before a coin show he tells me he's going to have a really good show. I like to think he is a typical midsized dealer as he deals in a little of everything including paper. His stuff is both raw and graded.
Again, I'm not disagreeing, but some folks around here do wonder whether or not a lot of (or most of) scrap gold and misc. silver hasn't been permanently sucked out of the potential selling community since the late 1970s.
Lots of people live their lives okay, but they aren't really doing well enough to buy very many precious metals items anymore. A few women get nice stuff from men, but neither the givers nor the recipients know much about what they are buying and giving and getting, and the big jewelry stores are well-known to sell poor shoddy quality stuff at high prices.
Lots of the gold and silver that you do see is estate stuff, the people who had it obtained it fifty to eighty years ago and their children and grandchildren want to sell the precious metals to smooth over their present lives. But current generations aren't putting too much of this aside presently. Coin people and 'fringe' coin folks are exceptions.
Yeah, and I'm still sore about Joan Langbord getting hosed because her grandpa tried to spare coins from the melting pot. Imagine if anyone were to come out with a real 1964 D Peace Dollar. That would probably lead to an all out war and ultimate confiscation.
No statute of limitations with shenanigans at the highest levels, but at the manufacturing level, by God we are going to get it right... , right ?
Sorry. You're getting me off track. U.S. Coins and the hobby will withstand and survive all the sordid tales we can think of.
In fact , the volatility creates the stir and buzz. Not sure it contributes to "collecting". Maybe stacking.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Yes and No. China will not be a big buyer of our debt (T. Bills) anymore. Rates will rise, then soar IMHO. When? My crystal ball is a little foggy. Gold should do well as the dollar declines. Coin collections should benefit as a "Hard" asset.
100% Positive BST transactions
For coin collectors - not precious metal speculators - increasing values for silver and gold create higher values for common coins, and this discourages new purchasers. When added to the absurd fad of sticking ordinary coins into expensive plastic holders under the guide of "objective grading," the universe of potential new collectors shrinks.
Gold
$1,359.40 (+4.10)
02-16 1:23 AM EST
Not quite back to this thread's $1,364.30 high of January 24, 2018, but certainly threatening.
80.4:1.
Market Metric Gold
Gold
$1,342.30 (+5.40)
04-10 1:42 PM EDT
Heading back up and beyond that $1,350 benchmark once again, or will we continue to see the oscillations of recent weeks that seemed to threaten a drop below $1,300?
Market Metric Gold
Gold
$1,363.00 (+22.30)
04-11 11:54 AM EDT
That didn't take long for an answer. Today within a dollar of of Gold's 2018 high on January 24th!
all the gold coins I have listed suddenly have a bunch of watchers. gold should be over 1,400 by end of year
Gold under $1,300 and the ratio dropping a little, still way too high.
Added value vs. Subtracted value
The hobby remains. Good ? It's a good hobby. Is gold and silver pricing relevant ? Honestly ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
If you own the generic gold coins it is good and if gold gets to the point you a $100-$150 profit on the coin because of a run up in the spot price for gold take you profit. I will drop and you can repurchase when everyone else is selling.
I like when gold is down and I can pick up some on sale. I think of gold as long term. It also does not effect much on the rare coin side short term. But your 100% correct. We all have to do more and more for the same. Its a big pile of gravel you must make it to the top but, someone keeps adding to the pile.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Bullion value is irrelevant to the numismatic value of what I collect.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I’m hoping to buy some pre33 for my kids as close to spot as possible. I’d rather gold go lower so I can buy more
Everyone seemed way more excited and happier at coins shows when silver was in the high 30's. I think a run up in bullion prices is a rising tide that lifts all boats.
After a rocky week or two gold is back over $1300. Will we see that previous "floor" maintained this time?
Market Metric Gold
Gold
$1,304.70 (+12.20)
05-24 3:13 PM EDT