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1904 $20 Liberty Head
RWM
Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
During the Omega Man conversation it was suggested (apparently by accident) that there were also counterfeit 1904 $20 Liberty Head coins created at the same time. While I understand that this statement was made in error, I have always wondered as to the large survival rate for this coin. Does anyone have any knowledge that could shed some light on this?
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Large Gold coins rarely circulated.
There are 1904 counterfeits. Some are the wrong color and have "wormy" tool marks. These MAY have been made in the same shop. Some '04's that came out in the late 1980's are decent fakes.
@totellthetruth probably knows the dates and denominations of other "Bonnano" fakes.
The initial statements in his posts regarding 1904 were, I believe, (and I have copied all the posts) an error and corrected by 4T. Cheers, RickO
1904 seems to be one of the popular dates for surviving $20 Liberties. I don’t know the survivor numbers but they seem to be more common and inexpensive in MS64ish condition than many other dates.
Weren't there a lot of "good" counterfeits coming out of Lebanon? My understanding is that they were made to act as bullion since collectible coins were legal to own.
Collector, occasional seller
@Zoins said:
1904 seems to be one of the popular dates for surviving $20 Liberties. I don’t know the survivor numbers but they seem to be more common and inexpensive in MS64ish condition than many other dates.
PCGS shows 100,000 MS63-65. Way more common than other dates. I remember many years ago being advised to look for a 1904 for my type set as they were "nice". Can't remember why this date survived but am also curious.
It depends on what "good" means. Crude fakes still fool many folks, even dealers. You see, what one person thinks is crude another thinks is very deceptive.
I learned from a former authenticator that NOTHING coming out of Lebanon fooled any professional authenticator after 1972 at one of the two services at that time. They had an edge back then. When a coin was sent into the INS Authentication Bureau or ANACS while it was in DC, there was no time limit to do the work. Nothing was returned as genuine until the authenticators could probe beyond doubt (in court if necessary) that the piece was genuine. I've heard that on occasion coins were held for over six months. The submitter didn't care as times were much more relaxed and all they wanted was a certificate of authenticity.
It is different today. Folks want their coins returned the day before they sent it in. LOL.
The 1904 made up just under 10% of the total Type 3 mintage figure. It also makes up over 36% of the Type 3 population numbers of our host. We all know there are many factors that can go into the population numbers, but it still seems very high. Personally, I don't see that many counterfeits being dumped into the market (and making it past our host) to have that big of an impact. I was thinking that perhaps they were part of a payment to a foreign government and made their way home later.
This board has been a wealth of knowledge for me and for that I would like to thank all of you here. When the 1904 came up in the other thread I thought maybe I should see what the community knew on the subject. I have been curious since I picked up my own for my type set.
Thanks again for all your responses.