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How bad 60/40 can really look
ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
Talk about taking it to the limit.
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ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
Talk about taking it to the limit.
Comments
Looks more 55/45 to me if you are talking about l/r.
This card looks fine to me...still don't get the centering obsession....
Same. I've got a 60/40 Lawrence Taylor PSA 9 rookie, that I wouldn't trade for a 50/50 version. The corners, edges, perfect surface registration and print render a 50/50 PSA 9 version null and void for me.
For a PSA 10, that card isn’t fine. If I subbed that, it gets a 9 every time. As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t submit a card hoping for a 10 with that centering.
In what sense isn't it fine? It appears to be within the required centering range for a PSA 10. Is it as appealing as a perfectly centered PSA 10? No. Not every card of a given grade is equally desirable.
I have submitted many 10s with similar centering. Here is an example:
Yeah, right or wrong, I wouldn't even think to submit the Smoltz with that centering.
Arthur
To assess this statement, we need to understand your motives. If you mean you wouldn't want the card even if it graded a 10 because you are a centering snob, then I understand why you wouldn't submit it. Otherwise, since it meets all criteria for a PSA 10, I'm not sure why you wouldn't think to submit it.
You make it sound like caring or thinking centering is important is a bad thing...
I think the statement is more a reflection of my ignorance when it comes to PSA's standards. I would see that centering and think it doesn't have a chance. But your point also rings true a bit. I only really submit for my personal collection and if I had that in a PSA 10 slab I would be looking to sell it and find a better centered example. Not because I think centering is the only thing that matters, just that I prefer cards that look well centered, among other standards. But my standards also change depending on each issue. For instance, with '88 Fleer, left/right centering is much more important to me than top/bottom centering. If this card were perfect L/R but centered like it is above T/B I doubt I would have even noticed it.
Arthur
Not at all. It doesn't happen to be as important to me as it is to you, but all that is really irrelevant. We need to distinguish between someone preferring really well-centered cards (which is obviously their right as a collector) and repeatedly asserting that cards that are not as well-centered are undeserving of a grade they received, even when they clearly meet all the criteria for that grade.
In other words, I'm fine with you saying things like "I prefer my 10s to have better centering." But it bothers me when you or others imply that a PSA 10 with 55-45 centering is misgraded when it clearly is not.
At no point did I suggest the 10 shouldn't be a 10. In fact, the title of the thread implies that the card does qualify for a 10. It was more of a "this is an example of how centering can fluctuate within PSA 10 standards."
Arthur
That's the way I interpreted Gemyanks' comment.
Not all examples within the grade are created equal. I've passed on lower end 9s in favor of higher end 8s while working on my 1975 mini set.
I also think eye appeal also varies depending on the beholder (no pun intended
)
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Would really like this card in a 10, but not THIS card in a 10
"The Packers are kinda like your kids. You dont love them because they are good, you love them because they are yours"
Perhaps the way that card sits in the holder makes it look worse than it is. It appears to not meet centering requirements to the naked eye.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
That card was also graded many years ago. In my experience, PSA has gotten tougher on centering over the years.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The Knafelc appears around 65/35, no way it should be a 10. Kind of like the '72 Bench 9 that's been making the rounds, something is wrong, or the centering requirements have changed a lot over the years.
If the Smoltz was white border only it would look great to my eyes. I think the blue and red lines make it appear to have worse centering. As always buy what appeals to you!
a 10 is a 10.
If the 1st thing you notice about a card is a negative, then it should not be a ten. But that is just my opinion.
I would never buy that Smoltz. If I am going to buy a 10 it better look like a 10 and not an 8oc.
I send a diamond canted card like that in its a 9 or 8 every day of the year.
Slabs not making me feel good either. Reminds me of a home version.My spider sense goes off if I view the pic shown. I'd avoid the item on the pic alone. My own opinion of course.
My first thought exactly. To truly be 60/40, you have to have 50% more border on one side than the other. That's quite a bit. It's the same as saying three units on one side and 2 units on the other. That's quite a difference.
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I would rather have a card with nice corners and edges over centering. Never understood the obsession.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Its funny how things change. way back when, as a young collector, razor sharp corners were where it was at. Maybe its just the law of primacy, but I still value corners above all.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The only thing that's changes is that cards are now being judged on how well they are centered_ along with_ corners,edges, surface, focus etc. Way back in the 1960's(?) as long as a card had a border all the way around, it was considered fine. Obviously this has changed.
I am a person who likes well centered cards. That DOES NOT mean I am ok with bad corners, stains, creases or any other defects.
I never understood the people who made comments like "all you care about is centering" that's like me saying you would like a card that was miscut as long as it had perfect corners.
When I tried to sell some cards to a LCS when I started my PC back in the 1980's the guy behind the corner took every aspect of the card into consideration before refusing to buy my cards. I figured if the guy didn't want any defects (including centering), I would adopt the same attitude.
Personally, I will buy a card centered a little high as long as it's 50-50 side to side.
I agree that in a perfect world, one where I have an unlimited card budget, I would probably value all aspects of a card the same. However, there are many times when I cannot afford a 10, 9 etc and have to settle just to include a particular card in my collection. In those circumstances, the first thing I tend to look at are the corners, edges, then centering and surface.
No wrong way to collect. That is just my preference.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Did anybody else notice that this is a 3 year old thread that got bumped? Lol. The first post of 2020 seemed to come out of nowhere.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Yep, noticed.
Ha, yeah I was reading the posts, knew they were old and the. Saw someone revived it to say a 10 is a 10. I am like.. what...why....???
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
I did not notice.
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funny, i didnt even notice it was a 3 year old thread.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
CU forum hit and run or old fashioned flicking all CU forum members a booger!
60/40 allowance and im pretty sure the card had no other surface issues .
speaking of solid bumps, technically it is a 10. and technically he is a spartan w 60/40 centering too. but you didn't want him, my humble king:
😉
A- vs A+ both A's
Run along and Tell Xerxes there are true 10's here
90 is not 100.
if you think they are, whenever you need change for a $100, i'm here.
they're both cash.
we are about to fight in the shade. you will make great mortar for my wall.
PSA has spoken silence yourself mortal!!
and king leonidas skipped all the way home after the intense battle and lived happily ever aft...oh wait.
Ok, I get it. Three’s a crowd!
I certainly didn't have an unlimited card budget.
Perfect corners are nice, as I said, for me a card can be a bit off centered. A card can also have an imperfect corner, if it's barely noticeable.
I like your way of looking at cards, for me it's the same, but if it's "too far" OC, I pass.
We all have our own ranking list on what we prefer. I go.. Centering, corners, edges, surface.. Heck, in most of the poor pictures in listings, centering is about all you can determine and sometimes that is tough. Countless times I have to request additional images just to make sure that the large mark on the card is just a shadow or a reflection of some type... Or the white speck is just dirt on the case that can be wiped off and not on the card. Having cards in hand to inspect is so much easier.... But I am with @JoeBanzai if it doesn't pass the centering test I move on.. Case by case obviously... Low, never find again pops, I can be a bit more forgiving...
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
Absolutely agree on the harder to find or "really need but very expensive" cards. ;-)
For myself I prefer as well centered as possible. Especially if the rest of the card,corners/edges, are rough. The centering puts the focus more towards the inner card, focal point, and the view of the outer card is somewhat lessened. One step further on preference. I'd rather have 4 even rounded corners than 1 or 2 sharp ones with 2 or 3 trashed ones or some combination of those. Must be a continuity thing.
a 10 is a 10
agreed!
I’m in tears! 😂
that's a spartan but he's more of a 4 . HE or I should say "it" clearly exhibits wear and less than perfect edges.