Longacre "doubling." What do you guys think of this? Makes sense.

Insider2

I just read this explanation posted by a pretty savvy numismatist about some of the "doubling" around the relief letters on our coins that occurs especially on Indian cents.

"Longacre was trained as a flat plate engraver, not a die sinker. (Supposedly he got his appointment as Chief Engraver not by merit but by political influence. The problems he had in creating his first original coin designs, the gold dollar and double eagle, seem to confirm this.). I still believe the "shoulder" around the lettering and device punches were put there deliberately to act as a visual aid to tell when the punch had been driven deep enough into the die. When the "shoulders" began appearing you were deep enough. Later when the die was polished and basined to the proper curvature you once again watched the "shoulders" and when they disappeared you stopped and the die was properly finished. This would be a big help to someone not experienced in die sinking, and would also allow less trained workmen to create dies from standard punches.

@EagleEye
@RogerB

@ Everyone else.

RogerB

See pp.428-430 in From Mint to Mint.

Insider2

@RogerB said: "See pp.428-430 in From Mint to Mint."

I shall and guess what? While I have skimmed your entire book and recommend it highly, my bookmark is on page number 426! Is that weird or what? I see the image of Longacre doubling and I'm going to bet that the person I quoted pulled his statement right from your book! I'll answer my own question tonight; however, if you are still online, did he?

RogerB

Ahhh//...that is the question?

Have to go now and set the trap on the rooftop - so we'll have fresh deer for dinner tomorrow.

Insider2

I just read the section. It looks like the fellow just explained parts of what you wrote. Anyway, you both seem to agree. That's the way it is when something is correct. There are many ways to convey the same thing. Now I shall look in Rick's book, The explanation should be the same.

CaptHenway

Just for the sake of discussion, take a look at this image of J-110.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/uspatterns_2270_23043885

Note how the reverse lettering is on a raised ring. (For further discussion you could argue that the ring is not raised but that the field is recessed, but you get the point.) An engraver making a master hub might have used a process that resulted in something like this, after which he could have trimmed away much of the ring but being careful not to get too close to the letters themselves. That could have left a base around each letter which, after subsequent transfers, caused what we call "Longacre Doubling."

The base may even have been deliberate, to protect the letters from chipping or breaking off the master or working hubs. There are many 19th century coins that show hub chips, and this may have been an attempted solution for the problem.

As mentioned above the bases are easily basined off of each working die, but since they were not bothering anybody (except 21st Century collectors yet to be), why bother?

TD

Insider2

I think that perhaps the raised portion of that pattern was designed to be that way. Color me stupid, but I like the effect.

ricko

Good information... and great for forum members to learn about this feature. Also a good recommendation for Roger's book, which, is excellent. Cheers, RickO

oih82w8

That is a great pattern Cap'n! Clean obverse fields.