Shell Casing Brass Cents - Picture
BuffaloIronTail
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In some of the previous posts concerning the use of used shell casings to make Cents from 1944 through part of 1946, the question arose as to if any pictures exist of this practice.
Here is a picture of used shell casings being stored on the Destroyer USS Meade (DD-602) for transport back to the States.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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Interesting photo. It is dated?
Normal Navy practice was to dump overboard. Most of the shell casings used at the US Mints were 50 cal from training bases. Return shipment was more expensive than the cost of recycled metal.
The picture is from WWII, Roger. The Meade served from 1942 to the end of the War. It operated everywhere in the Pacific including the Aleutians.
Pete
Interesting picture. Great history with the brass cents.
For the record, is this a postcard or where was the picture printed?
Looks like a PPC
I was referring to the date it was taken. Near the end of the war or immediately after it might have been practice to recycle Naval shell casings.
Bill.......I got the picture from the official tour of duty book that was printed for the USS Meade. The book included pictures of the crew, locations of action, and the day to day exploits of the crew.
Pete
Sorry Roger, the picture is undated.
Pete
Tour books are excellent records of ship activity and ports..... Cheers, RickO
In the context of coins and our hobby, this photo and caption seem pretty meaningful.
A lot of casual readers/viewers would just gloss over it.
I have ripped this for my photo library.
Thanks for posting.
After Japan surrendered in early September Meade served off French Indochina. She steamed home to the U.S. East Coast on November 2 and, following a shipyard overhaul, was decommissioned in June 1946. USS Meade was laid up as a member of the Atlantic Reserve Fleet for the next twenty-five years. Stricken from the Naval Vessel Register in June 1971, she was sunk as a target in February 1973.
Pete
I wish that I took some images of the 105mm, 40mm and 20mm brass shells that was expended from my AC-130H unit during Desert Storm..."mountainous" would be a good description.
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they look all bent up - no reloading?
The photo indicates that some Naval shell casings were shipped to the US - but there is nothing in archival documentation to indicate these made their way to mint operations in 1944 or later. Without a date for the photo, or maybe some additional information from other sources, it doesn't change any conclusions.
Anyone doing Naval research might be able to expand our understanding of the use of shell casings. This could lead to improved knowledge - although the facts of how shell casings were used in coinage won't change.
It would be fun to get to sink a real large ex-Naval ship, especially if you knew it was just gun 'practice'.
Interesting photo, thanks
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Not a ship, but in the Army, got to parachute in, and blow up a railroad bridge and water tower. It was in the US, in an area that was going to be flooded for a dam, and all the structures had to be leveled.
It was a night, hung the charges (C4 blocks) and used 3 different detonators
So cool.
Some random thoughts:
They apparently closely guarded (at least on some occasions) those spent Navy shells. During WWII by grandfather was in the Army but visited a ship at some point and someone gave him an empty shell as a souvenir, but he had to hide it under his jacket lest it be confiscated. Years later my grandmother had it made into a lamp, which I still have.
I have a smaller shell made into a training shell - a real projectile mounted on a real spent shell with holes drilled into it, so maybe some of those were destined for that?
I recall stories of WWII ending and flyers were ordered to turn in their equipment, including those nice leather jackets. The person taking the stuff then used a K bar knife to cut them up the back and then they were thrown in a heap to be disposed of. Official govt property, must be turned in, then promptly destroyed.
I only see 2 shell casings that are brass and from a 5" gun (as would be installed in Meade). These 2 cases are in the lower center right, and appear as bent tubes. Above those are 6 cases from a smaller caliber gun, maybe a .50 caliber but they look larger than that (Meade was also outfitted with 1.1" and 20mm guns). What is being transferred back to the states is the stack of empty "canisters". These canisters were used to ship and handle the loaded brass powder cans before they were fired. They required protection from an accidental striking. The canisters are the cylindrical tubes with the writing on them and a cap on one end. These are not brass. I don't know what the canisters are with the "X" on the top of them but these are not brass either. These might be projectile canisters. The powder and projectile were shipped separately. As stated above, accepted Navy practice was to throw all expended brass over the side. They didn't have space or means to ship all this back.
Today's Navy trains the gun to the firing azimuth and somebody on the bridge yells "BOOM" as loud as they can. If they did live firing, the smoke might pollute the environment and the expended case might hit a whale on the way down.
See above.
A complete 5" round was two part - a 22 to 25 lb. powder charge and a 50 to 55 lb. projectile. The powder charge was removed from the canister, loaded separately from the projectile, and then both were rammed into the breech. After the round was fired, and after the now expended powder case thrown over the side, all that was left was the empty canister.
I suspect that the reality is that some shell casings got sent back to America by conscientious officers, and that others got thrown overboard by people who couldn't be bothered to do so.
We had a lot of ships all over the world at the end of the war. Most were brought back to America while the Navy decided what to do with them, and as long as they were headed this way why not let them ferry some scrap metal home? Very little extra fuel expended to do so.
While we may have had a lot of ships all over the world, most of them had fully loaded magazines. Standard practice was to re-arm (and re-fuel) as often and as soon as possible. There may have been room for a few souvenirs, but otherwise there was no room for expended ordnance. And in the heat of battle, even a lot of the canisters that were intended to be recycled went over the side. There may have been a few, but even the most conscientious officers didn't relate to the concept of recycling and most were sick of looking at this crap.
By the way, the photo above looks like it was taken from one level above the main deck, and the canisters are stacked on the main deck. That is a lifeline just above the stacks and the blurring at the top looks like the water. This ship is underway. These canisters do not look to be rigged for transfer or offload; they may have gone over the side too.
au58 - Thanks for the additional information and interesting details. If you don't mind, I;d like to add your comments to the database relating to shellcase brass used in US coinage.
Here's a normalized photo.
Well, you can use it to the extent that it is relevant, but I was not commenting directly on shell case coinage.
I was just trying to correct the observation made by the OP that this was a photo of used shell casings, which it is not.
Most of what I had to say is based on first hand experience (post-World War II, obviously), some was learned in a classroom, some is second or third hand that I "picked up" along the way.
I am going to go back and edit one of the posts above to say "accepted Navy practice" instead of "standard Navy procedure". Big difference.
It is amazing what someone wirh a bit if experience can decide from a seemingly nondescript photo. I had wondered what that blur was at the top, and I agree that it is water now that you mention it.
Yes, I think the cost to return the spent brass to the United States would have been minimal if the ship it was on was coming home anyway.
And if the US Mint went to all the trouble to make steel cents in 1943 so as to save bronze for the war effort, then I think it likely that there was a program in place to salvage and recycle spent brass (to be reused for munitions and possibly coinage).
My father was in WWII and didn't have enough time in to come back from Europe after the war ended and had to stay 6 more months. What did they have him do for 6 months?
Pick up brass!
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The casings above on the canisters towards the water are 37mm-40mm Pom-Pom brass, and were anti-aircraft rounds used against Jap Zero's, and to lesser extent Stuka's. This pic is probably post war from Pacific theater.
Here's one in my collection- 40mm. I used to have a couple of 105mm but got rid of them.
I have some big brass and I can't imagine parting with them. Not sure of the calibre, but I have a British navy shell casing from WWII that is plenty big enough to use as an umbrella stand or for canes - it must be 30 inches or so in height. I pick them up when I find them, which isn't often, since now most surplus of this type is recycled or demilitarized before being sold for scrap.
Many of the brass shells I have Dad had given me. He knows a gentleman who works for a factory that recycles brass, and he at times would get a shell, or, two. I grew up around my Dad taking me to military shows at 5 yrs old, and have seen just about every WWI-WWII piece of memorabilia below the sun. Dad used to call me "bullet man" because I also collected the shell/casings that were cheap, while he went after the more expensive war trophies...Dad got me a lawn mowing job in my early teens working for a veteran who fought in Patton's 3rd army, and Jay always used to say the "Krauts fought for Hitler, the Japs fought for the Emperor, and we fought for trophies." Jay, he always told me to change that lawn bag out when it looked like grandpa's _ _ _ sack. I digress but those men had _ _ _ _ _ balls.