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Die Crack 1881-S Morgan- Have you seen this?

ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 5, 2017 8:15AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Bought this recently because I noticed a sizable, but not wide, die crack in the left obverse field. You can see the difference in the light reflection from one side to the other. I didn't find anything about it on vamworld, maybe I just missed it. Has anyone seen this before? It reminds me of the very early die state 88-o scarface die crack.

Collector, occasional seller

Comments

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's really cool. Good find.

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice catch... looks strange in the first picture, but with different light/angle, it shows better in the second shot. Cheers, RickO

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017 6:32AM

    I haven't seen this one before. There's an 81-S variety with a long, bisecting die break on the reverse, but this is the first I've seen one like this on an 81-S obverse. Nice find!

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Nice catch... looks strange in the first picture, but with different light/angle, it shows better in the second shot. Cheers, RickO

    It looks strange in the first picture because of the way the light is reflecting on the field on either side of the crack. It is ever so slightly out of plane. That's actually what caused me to notice it when going through a box of mixed coins.

    @messydesk Thanks for that info. They must have gotten the die out of service quickly after it cracked. Something this noticeable surely would have come across your desk at some point if there were a lot of them out there.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    strange, it looks like it is into the coin.
    A die crack would be raised.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Treashunt said:
    strange, it looks like it is into the coin.
    A die crack would be raised.

    It is raised

    Collector, occasional seller

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a very cool find!! It's what's known as a displaced field break. It's what happens when the die develops a break and the surfaces of the die are no longer flat and on the same plane. The surfaces are at slight angles to each other on either side of the break. These are very popular among VAM collectors and it's really cool that you found one that @messydesk has not seen before. I'm guessing because it's such a common date and has not been seen before, it's probably going to be a very tough VAM to find. It would be interesting if the reverse die matches any other 1881-S VAM.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:

    @ricko said:
    Nice catch... looks strange in the first picture, but with different light/angle, it shows better in the second shot. Cheers, RickO

    It looks strange in the first picture because of the way the light is reflecting on the field on either side of the crack. It is ever so slightly out of plane. That's actually what caused me to notice it when going through a box of mixed coins.

    @messydesk Thanks for that info. They must have gotten the die out of service quickly after it cracked. Something this noticeable surely would have come across your desk at some point if there were a lot of them out there.

    I agree, especially with an obverse break, since that's the side that's usually seen first, and this coin has typical 81-S flash, which accentuates breaks like this in the field, making it easily noticeable without a glass. Leroy Van Allen derives his initial rarity guesses based partially on how likely it is that the coin would have been seen by now.

    When an 81-S crosses my desk, the first thing I look at is the reverse for the VAM 54B and 1B die breaks, then the mint mark for any repunching. If I don't see those, I mutter some uncharitable comments and see what I can figure out, given the way most 81-S dollars are struck. A quick glance through the listings show another obverse field break listed as VAM 68A, although the pictures are such that they don't show the tilted fields like the OP coin. I would recommend this coin go to Leroy Van Allen for a potential new listing.

  • coinhackcoinhack Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭

    How cool. That is a great find. Nice if it turns out to be the discovery coin for a new VAM, and I would think a major one with such an visible marker. Nice work.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,189 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice find!

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    way cool, i like.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said: "It's what's known as a displaced field break. It's what happens when the die develops a break and the surfaces of the die are no longer flat and on the same plane. The surfaces are at slight angles to each other on either side of the break."

    We called them "collapsed dies" but I like your "modern" term much better. :wink:

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the comments everyone! I'll have to check the reverse when I get home to see if it matches any others. I'll be sure to update here and post some better pics as well.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This can occur when a portion of a die is too soft and it collapses, but only slightly. The stress of making coins then forces some of the metal lower than the rest and creates a crack. It's a lot like a tectonic fault line where part is fixed and the portion on the other side of the fault moves.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here are a couple of updated pics, best I can do for the moment without a macro lens and my terrible lighting :/


    I couldn't really find anything on the reverse that would make it identifiable to a particular die, there is a light die scratch from the top of the I to the top of the T in UNITED, this is not captured in my picture but would be here:

    Collector, occasional seller

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