Cool! I saw they were having a meeting at NYINC in January. It reminded me that I'd noticed references to them before and the website looks to have a fairly scholarly bent.
Is it something appropriate for a general collector? I do like my Japanese coins, but am hardly a scholar or researcher. On the other hand, it would be nice to get a little more education.
I don’t mean to derail this thread, but how many Asians refer to themselves as Orientals? Looking at the pictures at that site, I see only a few non-Occidentals.
My assumption, and please remember that this is my assumption, is that a regionally-themed scholarly club is ideally comprised of members from that region and based in that region.
I am a member of the British Numismatic Society as well as a less formal one on Italian numismatics. Both are led by their own and in the case of the BNS based in Britain. (The Italian one is an online organization.)
Having no experience with the ONS, I really don’t want to pre-judge it. But I am skeptical of an organization of “Oriental” coinage that seems at first blush to be so Occidental in nature.
Odd that. Just a couple weeks ago I was talking to a multi-racial guy in his late 20s (?early 30s) who did just that in referring to himself. Before that, no.
I was wondering a bit about 'Oriental' in the group name as that word choice certainly was startling to my modern US-centric ear. As much as hearing my acquaintance using the word colored to refer to himself.
I did find on the website or facebook (I can't remember which) that the Society was founded in 1970 and I wonder if that, or the location of the founding of the group, might be part of the word usage. Google/Wiki implied that the word 'Asian' was exclusively applied to South Asia in some parts of the English speaking world for example.
I can't really tell WHERE it was founded, the chapters/sections are North America, 'UK/Eire', Europe, South Asia, and Pakistan. Plus a General Section for those not included elsewhere, including East Asia.
The latter surprised me as some of the topics referenced recently are regarding China. Plus IIRC the gentleman who wrote several of the newer updates on Chinese, Korean, and Japanese coinage (David Hartill) is a member (saw his photo on Facebook).
edited to add: Indeed this is a bit off the original question, but a very fair question IMO. One would expect a specialty organization would be represented by the region that is being studied. And, perhaps it is, as I have no idea about the organization itself. It does bill itself as a worldwide group.
Perhaps on a worldwide basis the word has a different implication--I truly do not know.
As for what is offensive or derogatory, I subscribe to the idea that if someone tells me a word is considered derogatory to him/her, then it is.
and as an aside, here are the membership numbers of the various sections:
South Asia 253
NAmerica 124
UK/Eire 95
Europe 225
Pakistan 41
General 19
The ONS has a Facebook page. The Royal Numismatic Society's Facebook page often forwards me a link to the ONS page. Both pages are interesting. The ONS seems pretty active.
I am Oriental, but consider that description merely ornamental. I self-identify as American first and foremost, but my parents were both born in China. (I was born in Taiwan.)
In census forms, I self-identify as a hyphenated American naturalized citizen.
I am not a big fan of our excessively PC culture; I know that nearly everyone who uses Oriental does not mean to be offensive. As such, I consider it slightly intellectually offensive but not at all culturally offensive. There are exceptions depending on context. To reiterate: I merely wanted to point out that I question the value of a group whose majority membership seems set apart from the focus of the group. It’s like a bunch of old white men stuck in the 1100’s trying to legislate women’s health.
Anyway, I apologize for derailing/sidetracking this thread.
@EVillageProwler said:
To reiterate: I merely wanted to point out that I question the value of a group whose majority membership seems set apart from the focus of the group. It’s like a bunch of old white men stuck in the 1100’s trying to legislate women’s health.
Anyway, I apologize for derailing/sidetracking this thread.
Not a sidetrack--a reasonable question, and I hope to find out more about the group. It has been around awhile, and looks like it does have some serious folks in it.
Not sure if it's something an amateur/borderline dilettante would fit in with. I mean, I collect some Asian coins, but hardly could say I STUDY them...all I get it is what little is in English and what I can run through online translators (well and a little bit of the JNDA done by a non-coin oriented person).
Collecting Japanese coins has been tons of fun, but at a certain point it gets frustrating to know that I can barely scratch the surface...have been questioning the direction of the collection quite frankly.
Recently the e-sylum featured an older German fellow in Hong Kong who saved 7 tons of Chinese cash from being melted (back 50 years ago). Since he was clearly Caucasian, would the World have been a better place if he had let the cash coins be melted?
ONS is a great research and information society for those of us who collect in that area. I eagerly await each issue of their quarterly journal. There's articles and new information you wont find anywhere else.
Take a look through the Articles Index of the Journal of the Oriental Numismatic Society to get an idea of what the journal covers.
@determined said:
ONS is a great research and information society for those of us who collect in that area. I eagerly await each issue of their quarterly journal. There's articles and new information you wont find anywhere else.
Take a look through the Articles Index of the Journal of the Oriental Numismatic Society to get an idea of what the journal covers.
No offense but that just seems ridiculous to me. I must say this is the 1st time I've ever heard of the use of the descriptor Oriental as a derogatory description!
Much better than the N word, Round eye, Guaylo, etc!
Even traditional Japan is considering changing their markings on tourists maps. The swastika has been used for a to mark the Buddhist temples. However, given the number of tourists who are taken aback, Japan has been considering changing something that has been used benignly for a Very Long Time (I believe the technical word is 'bajillions of years', well a thousand or more anyway).
The Semana/Holy Week festivals in Spain, at least in the Andalusia areas, are marked in part by hooded folks marching at night. I can tell you one of my friends turned a corner one night and saw a bunch of hoods and flickering lights/candles and TOTALLY freaked for a bit, even though we'd all been told to expect it (well that, and incredibly slick roads due to gobs and gobs of melted candle wax). Google images will show why (can't seem to link my image search). Google images of Semana Spain.
And now, I am totally off the rails on my own thread.
I do believe the ONS sounds extremely interesting...not sure if I'm the level of individual that belongs in it, but I suppose I can join and find out. Otherwise I may take a break as I'm a bit stymied on where to take my Japanese collection. It may be time to blow the dust off the 7070 or the OFEC at this point.
Not every issue has articles that pertains to my collecting focus, medieval Silk Road coins. But they've issued many pertinent articles of new finds and research that can't be found anywhere else.
Stork
Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
@Timbuk3
Cool! I saw they were having a meeting at NYINC in January. It reminded me that I'd noticed references to them before and the website looks to have a fairly scholarly bent.
Is it something appropriate for a general collector? I do like my Japanese coins, but am hardly a scholar or researcher. On the other hand, it would be nice to get a little more education.
I don’t mean to derail this thread, but how many Asians refer to themselves as Orientals? Looking at the pictures at that site, I see only a few non-Occidentals.
My assumption, and please remember that this is my assumption, is that a regionally-themed scholarly club is ideally comprised of members from that region and based in that region.
I am a member of the British Numismatic Society as well as a less formal one on Italian numismatics. Both are led by their own and in the case of the BNS based in Britain. (The Italian one is an online organization.)
Having no experience with the ONS, I really don’t want to pre-judge it. But I am skeptical of an organization of “Oriental” coinage that seems at first blush to be so Occidental in nature.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
no asians call themselves orientals....thats a derogatory word. Hear any blacks call themselves "colored"?
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Um, yes, I think so.
naacp.org/about-us/
Not meaning to offend anyone ... but this is what they call themselves.
Kind regards,
George
Odd that. Just a couple weeks ago I was talking to a multi-racial guy in his late 20s (?early 30s) who did just that in referring to himself. Before that, no.
I was wondering a bit about 'Oriental' in the group name as that word choice certainly was startling to my modern US-centric ear. As much as hearing my acquaintance using the word colored to refer to himself.
I did find on the website or facebook (I can't remember which) that the Society was founded in 1970 and I wonder if that, or the location of the founding of the group, might be part of the word usage. Google/Wiki implied that the word 'Asian' was exclusively applied to South Asia in some parts of the English speaking world for example.
I can't really tell WHERE it was founded, the chapters/sections are North America, 'UK/Eire', Europe, South Asia, and Pakistan. Plus a General Section for those not included elsewhere, including East Asia.
The latter surprised me as some of the topics referenced recently are regarding China. Plus IIRC the gentleman who wrote several of the newer updates on Chinese, Korean, and Japanese coinage (David Hartill) is a member (saw his photo on Facebook).
edited to add: Indeed this is a bit off the original question, but a very fair question IMO. One would expect a specialty organization would be represented by the region that is being studied. And, perhaps it is, as I have no idea about the organization itself. It does bill itself as a worldwide group.
Perhaps on a worldwide basis the word has a different implication--I truly do not know.
As for what is offensive or derogatory, I subscribe to the idea that if someone tells me a word is considered derogatory to him/her, then it is.
and as an aside, here are the membership numbers of the various sections:
South Asia 253
NAmerica 124
UK/Eire 95
Europe 225
Pakistan 41
General 19
759 total (theirs, I get 757 when I add it up)
The ONS has a Facebook page. The Royal Numismatic Society's Facebook page often forwards me a link to the ONS page. Both pages are interesting. The ONS seems pretty active.
I am Oriental, but consider that description merely ornamental. I self-identify as American first and foremost, but my parents were both born in China. (I was born in Taiwan.)
In census forms, I self-identify as a hyphenated American naturalized citizen.
I am not a big fan of our excessively PC culture; I know that nearly everyone who uses Oriental does not mean to be offensive. As such, I consider it slightly intellectually offensive but not at all culturally offensive. There are exceptions depending on context. To reiterate: I merely wanted to point out that I question the value of a group whose majority membership seems set apart from the focus of the group. It’s like a bunch of old white men stuck in the 1100’s trying to legislate women’s health.
Anyway, I apologize for derailing/sidetracking this thread.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
They might not say the words, but I think the acronym (or whatever it is) remains "NAACP".
Not a sidetrack--a reasonable question, and I hope to find out more about the group. It has been around awhile, and looks like it does have some serious folks in it.
Not sure if it's something an amateur/borderline dilettante would fit in with. I mean, I collect some Asian coins, but hardly could say I STUDY them...all I get it is what little is in English and what I can run through online translators (well and a little bit of the JNDA done by a non-coin oriented person).
Collecting Japanese coins has been tons of fun, but at a certain point it gets frustrating to know that I can barely scratch the surface...have been questioning the direction of the collection quite frankly.
Recently the e-sylum featured an older German fellow in Hong Kong who saved 7 tons of Chinese cash from being melted (back 50 years ago). Since he was clearly Caucasian, would the World have been a better place if he had let the cash coins be melted?
ONS is a great research and information society for those of us who collect in that area. I eagerly await each issue of their quarterly journal. There's articles and new information you wont find anywhere else.
Take a look through the Articles Index of the Journal of the Oriental Numismatic Society to get an idea of what the journal covers.
http://www.orientalnumismaticsociety.org/ons_journal/jons_index
And BTW I've never detected anything racist or derogatory connected with ONS anywhere at all.
To think otherwise is silly at best.
Most Asians I know bristle at being referred to as "Orientals".
That being said, the word does seem to have retained acceptability when referring to antiques or decorative arts - so why not coins?
>>>My Collection
Thank you for the input and link! Are the back issues of the journal accessible to non-members?
Geeze! Am I to understand some Oriental people are offended if called Oriental because it lumps all into 1 group?
Should I be Peo'd because someone calls me white and groups me with all the other white cultures???
I find nothing offensive with oriental or white! Seems there are always people in the world looking for the dumbest reason to stir the pot!
The offense some Asians take from that word is because it has a Western-centric narrative, as if Asia’s relevance is best seen relative to Europe’s.
The word Oriental means from or of the East, but Asia is only east of Europe.
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
No offense but that just seems ridiculous to me. I must say this is the 1st time I've ever heard of the use of the descriptor Oriental as a derogatory description!
Much better than the N word, Round eye, Guaylo, etc!
Oriental is the common British term for East Asian people. In Britain, the term Asian refers to an Indo-Asian (South Asian) person.
I’m not sure why having or not having members of the “home country” (for lack of a better term) really matters.
By way of example, some of the best researchers of Mexican coins aren’t Mexican or of Mexican descent.
Language is certainly tricky. And changeable. And context dependent.
Well, not just language.
I mean how long has a fasces or swastika around before being tied closely to certain regimes. (I will not use the word, as I refuse to be the first invoker of Godwin's Law [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law". ).
Even traditional Japan is considering changing their markings on tourists maps. The swastika has been used for a to mark the Buddhist temples. However, given the number of tourists who are taken aback, Japan has been considering changing something that has been used benignly for a Very Long Time (I believe the technical word is 'bajillions of years', well a thousand or more anyway).
The Semana/Holy Week festivals in Spain, at least in the Andalusia areas, are marked in part by hooded folks marching at night. I can tell you one of my friends turned a corner one night and saw a bunch of hoods and flickering lights/candles and TOTALLY freaked for a bit, even though we'd all been told to expect it (well that, and incredibly slick roads due to gobs and gobs of melted candle wax). Google images will show why (can't seem to link my image search). Google images of Semana Spain.
And now, I am totally off the rails on my own thread.
I do believe the ONS sounds extremely interesting...not sure if I'm the level of individual that belongs in it, but I suppose I can join and find out. Otherwise I may take a break as I'm a bit stymied on where to take my Japanese collection. It may be time to blow the dust off the 7070 or the OFEC at this point.
Yes, I've bought many back issues before. Contact your closest Regional rep here:
http://www.orientalnumismaticsociety.org/regions
Not every issue has articles that pertains to my collecting focus, medieval Silk Road coins. But they've issued many pertinent articles of new finds and research that can't be found anywhere else.
Ooops I missed the part about non-members. Just ask. If not IIRC the yearly fee is a reasonable $35.
Even if mentioning Godwin's law wasn't technically considered invoking it , surely linking to the Wikipedia page checks that box.
AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! Fail!
I think "oriental rug" is still ok to say....
Although, they don't come from what most Americans consider Asia.