Options
.....to the Dealers who "book out" early Saturday at Baltimore....
ambro51
Posts: 13,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
I sold 10K in nice stuff to a Dealer who "stayed". He'll probably make a nice profit. He stayed....You drive home.
15
ambro51
Posts: 13,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
...and if you didn't stop to pee, gas up or feed your belly; you made it home safely.
I have done many art shows and every vender is required to stay until the end. Most need to bring their vehicle to their spot and safety of the public is a concern.
Years ago when I started doing coin shows, I found it odd that the vendors could leave any time making the experience less than optimal for the customers on Saturday and especially Sunday.
This is a discussion that has no end as both sides have valid points and the customer is the one who suffers in the end. When I left a show on a Sunday with two hours to go, only 10% of the dealers were left and people were still coming in.
I pity the dealer who spends his weekend sitting at a table with no business who cannot wait to leave and I'm happy for those who stay with less competition in the room. Therefore, I say leave it up to the dealer and show promoter.
Maybe a solution is dual contracting. One contract and complete floor resetting for those who agree to stay through closing on the last day, and a different contract for those who want to skip the last day. This is more work for the promoter, but gives dealers who agree to stay better access to customers. It would also improve the appearance of a show on the last day by tightening the floor plan.
When I did antique toys, the San Mateo antique show required staying the full THREE DAYS!
Until 7 or 8 PM.... I forget which.
First show we did, we packed up around 2 PM on Sunday.
We were warned we wouldn't be welcome again.
I told em that's what we were counting on.
Lousy show for toys. Nobody showed up after about noon on Sunday. Actually the sales were lousy from the git go. Not really a toy show.
I can see how sitting at a table for 4 LONG days could lose some of its luster.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Dealers should have the right to stay or leave at their choice.
They've paid the show fee, so if they leave early, they could potentially be making a mistake.
On the other hand, if the show is garbage, then let them leave.
For the public who shows up in the afternoon of the last day, well, as they say, 'you can't teach stupid'.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I like that idea except for the fact that moving is a pain in the butt once you are set up. It also makes it harder for the customer who saw something early in the show and decides to come back. Finding a certain dealer after they have moved can be difficult.
Maybe the guys who just come to trade with other dealers should all be in the back of the room since they don't want to deal with the public anyway.
I was there until close 6pm on Friday. A few dealers were gone by then. It was a great show. My suggestion if you can only make it for the last day, don’t bother. True with about any major multi day show.
Yes, "you can't fix stupid." Some of the people who come late to the show are pain in the butt tire kickers and cherry pickers who think that you are desperate to sell because the show is almost over. No, the motto is more like "tomorrow is another day." There is always another show, and you don't get "desperate" until you are having you last going out of business sale.
Oh NO! Not another philosophical discussion about luster!
I know I am being naive and I have only been to two coins shows in recent years. One was a World’s Fair of Money in Boston several years ago, and I went two days on the weekend and did not notice this phenomenon (it may have occurred but it was not a major issue as I recall). But, a couple years before that I went to a weekend show in Boston, probably the second day, and many of the tables were empty. For both of these shows there was an entrance fee. So, for me, as a customer, I was paying for something, and part of that something was missing.
I have come to understand that for many dealers at shows, they are really there to do business with other dealers. Once they make the rounds and buy/sell what they want, the general public is just a distraction or even a nuisance for them. In these cases, I don’t understand why the dealers bother buying a table – why don’t they just go to the show like everyone else and do their business and then leave?
I know there are dynamics going on than I as a show entrant am not aware of, but I think people who attend a show (especially if there is an entrance fee) deserve to find actual dealers selling stuff. As was suggested by someone, perhaps the daily set-up could be managed in such a way so as to consolidate remaining dealers to avoid empty spots.
Anyone who sets up at shows as a dealer will probably have a different perspective, but this is the way I see it from my role as an attendee.
If I ran a show I would simply take security deposits from all dealers. The earlier they left the less (or none) of the deposit would they get back -- then I would give the forfeited deposits to the dealers that stayed as an incentive... you stay you get paid... you leave you pay.
I can see both sides of the situation. There are times when the collector has no choice but to arrive on the last day, typically Sunday, due to job(s) that (s)he has. Thank goodness for the internet...open 24/7.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
Has a nice shine to it, no?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
Long Beach sometime in 1981. Saturday noonish. Dave Berg asks me if I have a specific $500 coin, and when I come back the next AM he's gone. Two weeks later, I hand him the coin at the next show and ask him where he was.
"Rick, my kids don't know it's Long Beach. They only know it's Sunday."
this is a problem with no solution so it's best if the dealers just go when they sense that their business is dried up. after all, they base that decision on experience. I suppose the OP could have shown up earlier and maybe gotten a better deal from the guys who left, but that may not have been possible.
I say everyone should do what they think is best for them.
THIS!
.
@GotTheBug said: Calling a Sunday afternoon late attendee to a show "stupid" is an outright insult to collectors and totally uncalled for."
I agree! I prefer "slow,"
I know the Whitman Coin show in Baltimore is a ghost town on Sunday. On Sunday why not rent some of the vacant tables to the smaller dealers and coin collectors who can't afford to pay $800 or more for a table on Sunday for a greatly discounted price such as $50 or $100? I bet a few of the bigger dealers will stick around to cherry pick the small dealers and collectors who set up. Also, I bet a lot of local collectors on a budget will make the effort to attend. Thoughts on this suggestion?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Seemed to me many dealers stayed through mid saturday in baltimore. no need for any ha ha here.
people forget, shows need to service the dealers who service their local customers back home. why should they be faulted for leaving a day early? they probably had been there since a monday or tuesday? their customers back home deserve to be taken care of too.
most shows are already listed for 2018. i never understood why people can't plan ahead and get there a Thur or Fri?
And very soon you would have no show. There are some dealers who simply don't have much to do with the public. Even if they were there, the collectors who get sore over this issue would find very little to buy from them.
I was under impression that small dealers and collectors where allowed to set up for free on Sunday in Baltimore. That is what they used to do at the Boston show.
This make too much sense to most if not all producers of coin shows, to comprehend and to execute. Think what Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk would do.
Let's see the cash.
Pitty the people that pay for a three day pass and show up on Sunday and only 10-12 dealers left at a big show
Lafayette Grading Set
They are in search of the stupid dealers, who are still there I guess.
I don't mean any disrespect and I don't intend to be argumentative, especially since this is probably the majority opinion among dealers, but this disconnect between dealers and customers is the frustrating thing for me.
As a customer, my reaction is, why even have a show on a particular day if no one (dealers) are expected to be there? Why not end it a day early, then? Why not make the last last day free admission? If it is going to be a casual set-up where dealers come and go at will then why not rent tables by the day and make them set up fresh every day so that the tables that are there are always filled? If staying for the duration of the show is such a burden, why even have shows? Why not just have a one day concentrated down and dirty wheeling and dealing session among dealers and be done with it?
And thats why I dont try to run a coin show... lol
BTW - if there are dealers that have little to do with the public why dont they just come up on a dealer day do their business and leave then ? Why bother to have a table at all ? Is that something shows force on them ?
Generally, the feeling Ive gotten from most dealers at big shows is that they really dont want to bother with the public at all. Rarely have I met a dealer that cares about long time experienced collectors no less the general public...
Ive experienced a different attitude at smaller shows though. Big shows just seem to be mostly dealer to dealer...
When you are dealing with expensive items, like collectors' coins, you need a home base for security reasons. Also the amount of inventory these people carry would surprise you. "Walking the floor" is not practical if you have much four or five boxes for a total of 80 to 100 coins.
There is also the matter of appearances. Even among dealers, those who have no tables convey the image of a second class operation. Having a higher class look generates more sales and higher prices.
Some of them pay attention to me, but then again I've gone there to spend a fair amount of money. Still I had a guy lay the line on me, "Not worth my time," when I spent "only" $5,500.
I've never seen this happen at the large Baltimore coin shows but it makes sense even if there is a small fee.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
since I began working in a shop it has given me a better perspective of dealer and collector dynamics. one thing it has changed is how I react to both groups, I now tend to get a quick read and try not to waste my time or their time. the funny thing is that neither group has a monopoly on being a PITA. at the same time there are dealers and collectors who are easy as pie to deal with.
it is a funny thing to realize, but most of the dealers who have left before the end of the show probably also realize that. they planned well and did their "deals" early in the show, both with dealers and collectors. for a show like this past Baltimore one, I bet most of them were actually done "dealing" on Friday and spent Saturday shopping, grabbing some LowHangingRetailFruit, socializing and packing up.
as others have said, this topic is well known by members here. the OP is a veteran so the post is puzzling.
Since no one has the **** to say it, I'll do it. This subject has been discussed to "Ad nauseam" thru the years.
There are no winners nor losers, only frustrated collectors, dealers, & those that are involved in this hobby.
Carry on....
FWIW, if I were forced to stay through Sunday at every show, I would take fewer tables and walk more shows. Not a threat, just reality.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I prefer “casual”.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't mean any disrespects, but does it really take ***** to say what you just said?
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Sorry I wasn't able to come up w/a clever term, hence the stars.
lol..............OK, good one.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
You can't judge the success of a show by the number of people there. If you find what you are looking for, then it is a good show. I was at Baltimore until Noon Sunday. A few collectors took the opportunity when there were hardly any dealers in the hall to stop by and chat and learn about what I had.
FYI - For the consolidation approach all 'dead' tables would be removed and the others - front and backup - simply moved forward. Rows and table numbers remain the same. Curtains would block off empty space.
If combined with in-fill dealers and daily discounts, a show might become more vibrant on the final day than on other days. Just a thought....from someone with little behind-the-table show experience.
I like it. It might add new life or even a different dynamic on the waning days. Instead of a show that is in gradual decline from the minute it opens, it can reinvigorate itself with new blood with different things to offer. Heck, a few real dealers might even stick around to see what comes out of the woodwork on the last day.
One problem I learned from a FUN Board member:
Dealer "A" is near the front and pays $1400 for his table...come Sunday, the show is condensed w/the room blocked off. Now dealer "A" finds he is next to "Boone Farm Coin & Tractor Co." who originally paid $150 for his table in the budget section.
That's OK. Dealer A had prime time for the prime show days. From what I've seen, most of those "premium space" dealers vanish with the setting Saturday sun.
If different approaches are not tried, nothing will improve.
If different approaches are not tried, nothing will improve.
what is broken that needs to be improved?
the scenario as described in this thread has been going on for a long time and everyone knows it. the OP's post comes across as a "sour grapes" message, I sold a bunch of coins and you couldn't buy them cause you left. it's silly. the FUN Show tried making changes in response to this maybe 15 years ago and I don't think anything changed.
It’s the dealers right as a payer to leave when he wants especially if sales are poor due to lack of people coming in the door who have money. Others may leave mid afternoon Sunday due to travel and security reasons. Me if doing financial consulting gig have to be back on the job Monday morning.
Everybody knows many Saturday / Sunday shows are simply over Saturday around 4pm after that hardly any retail traffic.
I generally try stick around as late as possible you never know when that great sale or fantastic deal may walk up.
The field I'm in has B&Ms and trade shows. It's seem to me it's a matter of pride and prosperity to be the last guys in the room working. Having the hall tearing down around you. It's a "Show", a place to showcase your wares and skill as well as do meet and greats that pay off in the long run. Home can wait. The fellas that treat it like a payday are only seeing the short term and only a fraction of the potential value trade shows offer.
It's confusing to me that it's the opposite at coin shows, although I've accepted it as part of the coin culture. If I were ever to be a booth holder I'd plan on being there the duration. But I'm a one more cast kind of fisherman , one more scoop gold prospector, more metal detector target dig and one more creek bottom rock hunter cause it's been proven to me time and time again that pays off more times than not, and when I go home light, it's not because I didn't put my time in.
But hey, I'm not into telling others what to do! Folks have their reasons and many are good ones. Sometime this creates great opportunities if one is inclined to step up and fill the demand.
I tried to do an Agree AND a Like but it would not let me do both....
Dealers have jobs. Collectors have a hobby. That fact alone produces certain conflicts. If there was an easy answer to this it would have been fixed already.
As a collector, I do know better than to show up Sunday, Saturday even. However, I might show up to meet with a specific dealer if I'm assured that he/she will be there, or perhaps to buy supplies as the supply guys tend to hang in there, in my experience. It's a mistake to think that anyone showing up late Saturday or on Sunday is other than a new and inexperienced collector who may work or be in school during the week. These are potential future buyers/collectors, the lack of whom is lamented by many dealers and hobbyists. To ignore these consumers is to make the hobby less viable.
Dropping Sunday makes some sense, but renting show space for one day on the weekend may not work economically. The idea of free set up on Sunday may make more sense. For those dealers who are only interested in dealer-to-dealer transaction, how about a separate space within the bourse, one that could be partitioned when they bail? Or maybe limit them to Thursday and Friday only and drop the four-day table fees to fill the place with more dealers who can't afford the table fees at the big shows.
It would be a shame to lose the opportunity to meet dealers and fellow collectors face-to-face, to lose the opportunity for specialty meetings, educational seminars, previewing auction lots, interacting with TPG services, a chance to display one's collection. The hobby may survive without shows, but it will be much diminished. The dealers ultimately pay the freight for all this, so it's really up to them whether shows are in our future.
Back in the day when I had a bourse table at shows , I always stayed until mid-day on Sunday. I did not do a lot of business but most times did some.