Stolen BGS 9.5 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan Rookie Card Serial #0009527212 - Be On The Lookout
HighGradeLegends
Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭
Please pass the word: I had a BGS 9.5 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan Rookie Card w/ Beckett slab Serial #0009527212 (see the pics below) stolen from me by the following person in Canada (see the point of contact info below).
I am presently attempting to recover the item and have legal authorities involved. However, it would help me if anyone spots the card online via Facebook, various sports card forums, ebay, craigslist, etc. to direct the police towards a lead on the location of the item. Or if they are contacted by the person below looking to broker a deal. I won't go into the long background story here, but this was a trade that went bad and I did not vet the thief properly up front...now I am paying the price. 100% my fault for making a poor decision to deal with this low life scum bag, but I will not give up until the situation is resolve (criminally and in the civil realm). I have posted a similar msg on other sports cards collecting sites. The last physical known location of the card was at the address below.
Thief's POC Info:
ANTHON (aka STEPHANE) BLANCHETTE
147 RUE TURCOTTE OUEST
THÉTFORD MINES QUÉBEC
G6G 1G2
Phone: 418-814-9137
Email: momocard@hotmail.ca
Ebay Name: gohabsgo1950 (old account, he likely uses another account)
HGL
Stolen Card Pics:
Comments
Sorry this happened man.
I have seen that ebay name before. What were they trying to sell you, and mainly did he approach you or vice versa for the trade?
Did he send anything and short you a card or commit absolute fraud with an empty box?
All of the above, yes.
He approached me with a this card. Offering a 1 for 1 trade.
I did some basic checking on him, but not enough. There were red flags, but when I saw the "proof of life" picture, I figured we are good.We sent on the same day. Then he sent this fake GMA card (not the PSA card we agreed about) in the box via UPS.
So yes, 100% fraud. He went silent as soon as I complained about the fraud. I obtained the services of a legal attorney in the area and informed the authorities. However, it would help me if someone discovers this card on the market to expedite its return. I have a mountain of evidence and support, so I am not worried about that.
Additionally, due to the help of this great community forum, I have the great help of a honorable Quebec native citizen.
But overall this sucks.
sucks to hear that would have been the trade of the year ...... will do!
Wow that sucks!! Right off you can see that the Gretzky slabs are different from the scan and photos. Above the card and under the label the case design seals are not the same.
That is one killer Jordan to lose, probably cracked and on its way to PSA already.
I will stay peeled for it though.
I really hope you nail this scumbag, I can't imagine the frustration and aggravation you must be going through ISTHTY
Did you contact Joe (PSA) or SGC to be on the watch , if for some reason the scum sends in the slab??
I highly doubt they be stupid to,
but check auction houses as well. No stone unturned!!!
Agreed, Already done. Sent emails, but will call Monday am when they open too.
Damn, so sorry to hear about this POS ripping you off. Yet again, maybe a lesson for all of us to re-learn ... if it seems to good to be true ... it probably is.
Best of luck with getting back your Jordan. Please let us know how it turns out.
**EDITED TO ADD: Here's the last verified sale on the Gretzky shown above, if it helps at all:
8/27/17 eBay ...Auction ..... pwcc_auctions ..... 3***t ..... $27,009.00 **
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
These OPC cards... i actually think my psa 8 looks sharper then the psa 9!!! unreal how subjective grading it on any given day or card. PS - sorry this happened to you... I feel gutted and I dont even know you or own the card. We have all been messed over and the pain is hard to swallow
I’ll pray that this works out for you but the first red flag for me here would be someone willing to “trade” me a $25K card for a $7K one.
I would never give up, but would also immediately resign myself to this being a costly learning lesson.
Keep us posted. I’ll keep my eyes wide open for your card.
@mortiz With those sub grades much higher than 7k.
@HighGradeLegends Sorry dude. Hopefully this works out for you and crush this loser legally if you can.
If you guys sent them in the mail then don’t you have his address?
Might be worth the airfare to show up to this losers front door and with the local police.
Already working with the Provincial police and I have a Quebec local attorney. I am seeing this through to the end...both the civil and criminal sides
According to VCP one with the same exact sub grades went for $9K on 7/24/17. So I’ll revise my valuation from $7K to $9K. Still, no where near what the Gretzky is worth. Again, I feel horrible for the OP but this unbalanced trade would have made me extra worried that something was fishy.
Is there any person/business that offers intermediary services, like BBCE? Or something like an escrow account service that money can be placed in and stored until a trade is complete? I don’t think there’s any way to completely remove risk from any transaction, unfortunately.
Exactly that an escrow account can be opened but this would mean you would need to have the value of whatever your trading placed into said account. These can be opened pretty easily and protect both parties for little to no cost.
I’m sure BBCE would be happy to help with big transactions. Of course it would be nice to offer them something for their troubles.
I can’t believe that people do “trades” with complete strangers, without any safety net, on high value items. You can just use PayPal and send each other invoices for what you agree is the value of the items you’re exchanging. Yes there is a fee involved but I think it’s worth it for the peace of mind.
It looks like it's probably a rental. It's a house with two levels.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
He approaches you.....Then let HIM send the card first and you send if you are fully satisfied with his card after receiving it. You are the one with the great reputation, not him. That is why he approached you. I hope you get your card back.
Any update?
Not to make any connections to HGL situation, but this reminds me when I got scammed out of a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 9 from a Canadian buyer on the old Naxcom site. He asked me to help him out on S&H by using a lower cost non-signature method. I did help him out and he filed a claim even though tracking showed that it had arrived. Naxcom told me I was SOL. That was the last time I sold anything into Canada and I was happy when Naxcom folded.
I know it may seem unreasonable to stop selling into an entire country for one bad deal but at the time I needed the money for a job move and it really stuck with me. In fact I stopped buying hockey cards since you can't get top dollar on singles without selling to Canada.
active law enforcement involvement at this time. I will update in the future, but don't expect anything soon as I do not want to disrupt actions at this time and prefer to wait until resolution. ty
HGL: very sorry to hear about this. Hopefully this douche gets what's coming to him criminally and you get made whole.
Heard someone mention escrow. In the past I for trades of bigger cards I've worked it out with the other party that we would both send each other a PayPal payment for what ever the dollar amount was. Obviously values need to be close but it's worked. I'd rather pay 3% to PayPal and know that if the other guy flakes or is is scamming while I may not get the card back I will get the cash.
Kevin
Kevin
That really sucks, and I hope you get that beautiful Jordan back. If ever involved in a trade that might possibly work out to not be a "trade" at all, I'd certainly ask BBCE to act as a trusted go-between. Worst case you could count on getting your original card back. Hope the pursuit of the scumbag bears fruit.
I would think BBCE would want nothing to do with getting involved as a third party for stranger-to-stranger high dollar transactions, for insurance and common sense purposes.
Arthur
Perhaps but it don't hurt to ask. Further, it's better than winging it off to parties unknown and hoping for the best. I also am interested in bridges that might be for sale.
They’ve done it before. They also can serve as an authenticator to make sure the goods be traded are legit. But like I said they should be fairly compensated for their efforts.
We all know Steve is a great guy. Just ask him. If he says no well that’s obviously his right, but my guess is for high value transactions he’d be happy to help the community.
That's awfully nice of you to hop on a public message board and offer up Steve's services. I'm guessing you've never owned or run a business. This thread started on a $35k transaction. Steve would need to get an additional insurance policy to cover hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of other people's property. And now he injects himself into a situation with with very little to gain and a lot to lose. Would people pay 10%? I doubt in this instance the two parties would have split $3,500.
What happens when something goes wrong in transit from Steve to one of the other parties? It's not the original trade partner's fault. It's not Steve's fault either. Yet he was the last one in possession. Where does the responsibility lie? If you're someone who is out what's due to you, do you go after the original trade partner who is just some dude on the web or do you go after Steve who has a business and assets?
But really, the point here is you don't know Steve. Don't go on a public message board and offer his or anyone else's that you don't know's services. You're in no position to even suggest it and you put Steve in a difficult position when you do so. This is called common courtesy. You'll have a better grasp of it when you grow up.
ETA: You don't have to stop with just my last 35 posts. Feel free to continue to go back and flag and report me for abuse with all of my posts in the past. I think I'm over 1,800 now so that's plenty of material for you to work with.
Good points on the above. At first I didn’t consider the other inputs a third party would need to take on for these type of transactions. It’s just transferring the risk and adding additional parties to possible disputes.
I was thinking that COMC could be used with an agreement by both parties to only “sell” to the other person (for a small like amount). Then what if one party “buys” the card, which automatically transfers ownership at COMC, but the other doesn’t and pulls their listing. Then we’re back to the original problem of one person getting something essentially free while the other gets nothing.
I don’t know if there is a great solution here. It sucks there are people who drain the trust out of the hobby.
Best of luck, HGL. Hope everything turns out as best it can.
Quick question: Is the card the guy sent actually counterfeit? If not, this probably falls under civil rather than criminal law.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
@ReggieCleveland I think the problem you’re having is that you don’t know me or what you’re talking about.
I actually know Steve Hart, have done plenty of business with him and know what kind of services he offers.
In no way am I speaking for him but I know he has acted as a broker for deals in the past, for a fee, where he also authenticated the product being exchanged. You realize he already authenticates unopened for a fee right?
As for what happens if something goes wrong in transit, there’s shipping insurance for that. This really isn’t very complicated so please stop with your attitude as it doesn’t help the OP or others learn how to deal with these trade kind of situations.
His ebay name is listed as being on the Beckett message board today at 4:52pm. You should see if you can trace him doing something with the card on there. Good luck!!
Now that is what this board is all about, nice work Big Mike!
HGL, Good luck to you, it looks like you have done the necessary leg work and I hope you get made whole.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Any update on this?
Below is a quick update on this situation. I providing some narrative style detail here, but I will not answer super specific follow on questions at this time as there are both an active criminal investigation and civil lawsuit in process. When this unfortunate event has reached final resolution (at least in the civil realm), I will post a detailed update and answer questions then.
As of this post, I still have not physically located the stolen card. It has not surfaced in Canada nor in any major marketplaces or forums in the USA. The thief sells actively on the Canadian version of craigslist: Kijiji. He has known to move stolen cards there in the past (last confirmed in Nov 2017) and likely will do it again. Though the thief likely cracked the card out or sold it off by now, I still hold out hope of getting it back in my hands. If not, the civil lawsuit will be my back up course of action.
In addition to scamming me, he has scammed another 5 other collectors (in both the USA and Canada) for a combined greater than $100,000 USD in legit market value. There may be many others I do not know about, may be on a smaller scale or may be on a larger scale. Bottom Line: This is no joke. These other collections have all joined in the criminal and civil legal proceedings.
For the record, the thief's (Stephane Banchette) picture appears below.
With the help out an OUTSTANDING CU forums board member who lives near Montreal, I traveled to Quebec earlier in the month to physically confront the thief and repossess my stolen card. The board member was very helpful in helping me navigate the local language barrier (I do not speak French) as well as leveraging his vast network of Canadian high end collectors to keep tabs on and flush out the thief.
The board member and I traveled to the thief's house and staked the place out. See the pictures of his front door below and the of the garage. A random young person rents the 2nd floor property above his main home; the thief resides on the 1st level of the domicile. For the record, the thief keeps all his cards in the garage. It acts as a large man cave.
Initially, no one appeared to be home, so we left the area and returned just after dark. Upon pulling up in our vehicles, the thief opened a side door to the man cave garage to see what we were doing. He quickly shut the door and tried to act if no one was there. We walked straight to the garage and banged on the door until he opened it. The board member translated for me as I stated I wanted my card back or I was calling the police. The thief was visibly shaken; in fact, his body shook uncontrollably almost as if he has Parkinson's Disease, likely caused by the shock that someone traveled nearly 2000 miles to confront him about criminal act. The thief stated in French that he sent me the correct PSA 9 OPC Great One RC and that I was not welcome on his property. After a pointless back and forth of denials from the thief for about 5 minutes, he asked us to leave or he would call the police. I told him I would make the call myself, as I was no longer going to deal with his lies. Right In front of the thief, I called the local police and they responded saying they were 10 minutes away. The thief was VERY surprised I made the call and ran out of his garage into his house. Three minutes later, he reappeared, running directly to his Ford Truck and driving away in an expeditious manner.
The thief's get away vehicle.
The license plate of the thief's vehicle (hard to see, but it reads: Quebec FCW6338)
Three minutes later, the police arrived. Below are some photos of the scene. It was never my intent to photo document the events, so here are some poorly focused shots.
The police arrive (for the record, they are much more helpful than in the USA!).
Squad car with his house in the background.
Police officer speaking to the valued board member who was assisting me.
The police took my criminal complaint and attempted to question the thief several different times that evening, but he did not return. After filing my complaint, I retired for the evening. The next morning, I consulted with a local civil attorney, filed a lawsuit, and departed back for the USA.
A week later, do to the great networking of several members of this board, I came in direct contract with other victims. We joined forces on criminal and civil fronts, all of which are progressing in our favor, but are weeks off from reaching final resolution.
The local police, accepting several criminal complaints from others against the thief, are pursing the matter. Rather than spoil any surprises they have in store for the thief, I will just simply say they are very helpful and I am glad they are taking the task seriously.
And that is about it for now.
If anyone comes across my beloved MJ, please reach out to me ASAP. Additionally, if anyone has an acquaintance who was also taken by this thief, please send me their POC info. Finally, I recommend avoiding this thief. His garage appeared to have $200k+ in cards and other sports memorabilia items. I would not be surprised if they were mostly obtained through criminal means. If you are missing something through a previous raw deal, it may be in his treasure trove of stolen goods.
HGL
Thanks for the update. That was a great read.....kinda like watching an episode of "Cops". The douche looks like a drunk. Good luck the rest of the way.
So glad you are pressing the issue with this pond scum. I feel that I would do the same even if it didn't make financial sense. If more people went this far it would certainly be a deterrent for future thieves. I hope this turns out well for you and this idiot gets the book thrown at him
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
This scammer is pretty slick from a legal standpoint. Its going to be very difficult for anyone to recover anything or get a civil judgment. Criminal charges are a joke, they would never stick. Had he not sent him any card, it would be fraud/theft. However, since he actually sent a card, and a WG RC at that, all you have is a civil dispute. Further, nobody can "prove" they didn't get the right card. All the scammer has to say is he sent the right card and the guy complaining is actually trying to scam him. Sounds like he already did that with witnesses present. The fact that the two cards were not of equal value - and the person who was set to get the much more valuable card is the one complaining - would also tend to support the position of the scammer. He probably realizes this and how it would look to a jury(that a person who thought they were getting a steal of a deal is now complaining they got scammed). And I'm not even getting to how you would "prove" value between two different cards/grading services as that is another subjective issue that a jury will have a problem with.
I'd be curious if all the other people who got taken also thought they were getting an unheard of deal.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
The card the op received was NOT the agreed upon card. This is a simple case of fraud.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
He can't prove that. There is really no way to prove what was sent or received.
Again, the guy knew what he was doing. You have a civil dispute you can't prove. These are collectables, virtually indistinguishable from each other. Slabs can be opened and cards swapped out, as anyone would have to admit in court(this nixes it right there). Value is highly subjective and "established" based upon a small sample of unverifiable sales in many cases. A court will likely request the OP and "the scammer" go to a mediator because a jury can't make any determination of fact here. All "the scammer" has to say is "I sent the right card, this guy is trying to scam ME!!". Nobody can prove otherwise. This is why it is sooooo stupid to trade high dollar cards over the interwebs with people you don't know(especially in foreign countries) - neither party can prove what they sent or received and you are stuck in this scenario if the other person turns out to be unscrupulous.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
Good on you HGL for seeing it through! Hope you are successful in getting made whole. If not and I were you I would at least enjoy makeing this aholes life as miserable as possible for as long as possible.
Kevin
Kevin
Yeah, I think Jimmy is right. Your best bet was probably to kick down his garage door when he left and made yourself whole right then and there.
If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
Arthur
Even if the scum is successful defending his position in civil and legal proceeding at least he will have had to go through the process. It just might make him think hard before he scams someone else. IMO.
If this "scum" does successfully defend himself, then I'd say the OP has opened himself up to a countersuit by harassing the guy at home and posting photos and disparaging the guy's reputation. Just sayin'...Any lawyers want to chime in?
Or maybe O. J. reads these threads from time to time for information on the collectibles market, and he can chime in with his thoughts?
On a related note, stories like this is why I started using third party auction houses to sell high dollar items $500+. The fees are worth it to avoid getting scammed by buyers.
Dude, you're my hero.
What a boss move.
Can't they just locate the card in question as proof? It looks like it was sold by PWCC in August to "3***t" .
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
When i first read about this last month, I googled the name and address and said how great it would be to show up at this guys front door. Finding out you did just that, totally boss. It must have been very hard to not put your hands on him. I hope you and the other victims get whats owed you....and he the karma he deserves.