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If Bitcoin had a Bitcoin sibling born on the same day...

MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

...one exactly like it the Bitcoin we know, and another cryptocurrency backed by gold and not "minted" by computers, which one would have been the better investment?

Andy Lustig

Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

Comments

  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My snap answer: the one whose price is currently higher. :D Seriously, though, if you don’t have physical possession, what’s the difference? Which one had better marketing?

    I have a math degree, so the whole basis for “minting” bitcoin makes a reasonable amount of sense, but I bet for the layman it would be easier to get their head around the twin backed by gold, so I’ll answer your question with the bitcoin backed by gold.

  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭

    Please explain how there could possibly be a gold backed crypto currency.

    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2017 4:34AM

    @Pokermandude said:
    Please explain how there could possibly be a gold backed crypto currency.

    Check this out, https://tether.to

    It's my understanding that these "Tethers" or USD₮ are digital tokens that are pegged to the value of a Dollar.

    I think this concept could possibly be done for gold stored in a vault.

    1 digital token, let's call it 1AU, that is created for each oz of gold in the vault.

    The use of the blockchain as a ledger (one of its intended purposes) would offer a way that users can view & audit all gold stored in said vault.

    It's all about what the people want...

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If folks wanted gold, wouldn't gold be higher now already?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    If folks wanted gold, wouldn't gold be higher now already?

    Looks to me like they want it.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The mining equipment is backed by electricity which makes copper the real commodity.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will stick with the real gold.... That being said, I wish I had risked a few dollars when bitcoin started... :p Hindsight is always 20/20.... Cheers, RickO

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I will stick with the real gold.... That being said, I wish I had risked a few dollars when bitcoin started... :p Hindsight is always 20/20.... Cheers, RickO

    So do I.

    But knowing myself, would not have held it all, all this time, would have sold most of it long before now, and the last bit of it yesterday.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    The mining equipment is backed by electricity which makes copper the real commodity.

    Bitcoin is no more backed by electricity or copper than a pile of dog crap is backed by Alpo.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:
    If folks wanted gold, wouldn't gold be higher now already?

    Looks to me like they want it.

    Show a comparison graph to the SP500.....come on...I dare ya.

    And seriously...since 1975 has gold even kept pace with a new Ford pickup?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you said folks don't want gold, the chart proves you wrong, once again. Changing the subject to Fords or the SP500 does not alter that.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And crypto currency is no more minted by computers than Girl Scout cookies are baked by elves.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    you said folks don't want gold, the chart proves you wrong, once again. Changing the subject to Fords or the SP500 does not alter that.

    No, he didn't, no it doesn't, and yes it does.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    you said folks don't want gold, the chart proves you wrong, once again. Changing the subject to Fords or the SP500 does not alter that.

    Your chart doesn't show that folks want gold, only it's value relative to the dollar. According to your chart it takes 10x more dollars to buy an ounce of gold today than in 1975. Guess what, it takes 10x more dollars to by a pickup truck today than in 1975.

    That what your chart shows. I just proved the folly of your mindset. :)

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2017 6:17AM

    chart shows increase in demand. spend more time learning to read charts and less time trolling.

    The only problem with having a pet troll is you have to keep feeding them.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I> @MrEureka said:

    ...one exactly like it the Bitcoin we know, and another cryptocurrency backed by gold and not "minted" by computers, which one would have been the better investment?

    The better investment ? The Bitcoin, looking retrospectively.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To answer my own question, I think the gold-backed one would be worth more today, because I don't think the unbacked one would have died a quick and quiet death.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    chart shows increase in demand. spend more time learning to read charts and less time trolling.
    .

    Your chart doest show that at all....stop embarrassing yourself.

    Stop posting stupid and incorrect info.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2017 4:41PM

    stupid is in the eye of the beholder. more research, less trolling.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, let's see, x axis is time, y axis is price.... not seeing "demand" please point it out, thanks

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what determines a price increase over a period of time? You too, more research.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    what determines a price increase over a period of time?

    "They" manipulate it!

    I learned that right on here!
    From you!!

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the sibling would be called "bubblecoin"

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    what determines a price increase over a period of time? You too, more research.

    Inflation?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2017 3:00PM

    Back when fundamentals ruled markets an increase in demand caused prices to rise. Fundamentals no longer matter?

    Who controls inflation? And does this mean they indirectly control prices?

    Good research topics for anyone willing to question what they are told.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2017 3:35PM

    Fundamental's are still and always have been important. Actual demand for gold, and the rate of increase of demand for gold has dropped dramatically over the last 6 years. Just look at the mint prosuction numbers as evidence. This is gold is lower than 6 years ago and is stagnant. Gold is not high on the want list for investors now. Perhaps one day that will change, but right now there is very little evidence or reason for that to change.

    With the exception of the stock market and health insurance, most prices are the same as 8-10 years ago. Inflation is quite benign. Hopefully the seeds have been sown.

    Markets control inflation and yes, markets control prices.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Fundamental's are still and always have been important. Actual demand for gold, and the rate of increase of demand for gold has dropped dramatically over the last 6 years. Just look at the mint prosuction numbers as evidence. This is gold is lower than 6 years ago and is stagnant. Gold is not high on the want list for investors now. Perhaps one day that will change, but right now there is very little evidence or reason for that to change.

    The demand for US Mint gold is only part of the demand for gold. Central banks and ETFs are certainly major players, and they couldn’t care less about AGEs.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Of course there is a market for gold, in all forms, industrial/technical, jewelry, collectible and ordinary bullion, leaf for Goldschlager and $1000 ice cream sundaes, dental (Weiss!) Etc.

    As far as gold-backed any thing whether paper, electronic, "cloud", or even in the future, by direct brain to brain thought-transfer, if it ain't in yer hands, it's all trust in the counterparties.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2017 1:50PM

    Gold backed dollars kept the printing presses at bay for decades. This provided trust in the soundness and the stability of the currency. Faith drives markets as much as do greed and fear.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @cohodk said:
    Fundamental's are still and always have been important. Actual demand for gold, and the rate of increase of demand for gold has dropped dramatically over the last 6 years. Just look at the mint prosuction numbers as evidence. This is gold is lower than 6 years ago and is stagnant. Gold is not high on the want list for investors now. Perhaps one day that will change, but right now there is very little evidence or reason for that to change.

    The demand for US Mint gold is only part of the demand for gold. Central banks and ETFs are certainly major players, and they couldn’t care less about AGEs.

    I'm still looking for a chart that shows demand for gold. Anybody? Someone show me this great demand growith and prove me wrong.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2017 5:16PM

    ,

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2017 5:25PM

    @cohodk said:

    I'm still looking for a chart that shows demand for gold. Anybody? Someone show me this great demand growith and prove me wrong.

    Call APMEX, tell them demand is down and that they should therefore lower their price for you. They will probably tell you that their price reflects current demand (something already explained to you) - if they don't hang up on you.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017 7:02PM

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    I'm still looking for a chart that shows demand for gold. Anybody? Someone show me this great demand growith and prove me wrong.

    Call APMEX, tell them demand is down and that they should therefore lower their price for you. They will probably tell you that their price reflects current demand (something already explained to you) - if they don't hang up on you.

    Indeed....a price that has fallen behind that of all other assets.

    I'm still waiting for that chart.

    Here I'll help you..err, I mean me ;)

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/gold-demand-seen-falling-to-lowest-in-8-years-in-2017-wgc/articleshow/61574528.cms

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gold-wgc/gold-demand-slides-to-eight-year-low-in-third-quarter-of-2017-wgc-idUSKBN1D90H8

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017 7:53PM

    Yep, gold is down 9% since 2009. Yep, gold has doubled since 2006. Gold is protection, not an investment. You assume that holders of gold are not smart enough to also put some of their funds in actual investments.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2017 9:58PM

    @derryb said:
    Yep, gold is down 9% since 2009. Yep, gold has doubled since 2006. Gold is protection, not an investment. You assume that holders of gold are not smart enough to also put some of their funds in actual investments.

    From the comments I've read on this very forum, many folks are not "smart enough".

    Yes, it is protection, as I wrote in 2011 or 12, it will protect you from profits. Go ahead search it.

    From Investopedia.....
    An investment is an asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it...... will appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth.

    Protection is a condom.

    So what is gold?

    Still waiting for this gold demand growth chart.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We all strive to be as smart as you. An unrealistic goal, but a goal none the less.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    We all strive to be as smart as you. An unrealistic goal, but a goal none the less.

    Either God gave it to you or he didnt. All the trying in the world won't matter. Just sit back and listen. ;)

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    If folks wanted gold, wouldn't gold be higher now already?

    If they didn't want it, wouldn't it be lower now already?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @cohodk said:
    If folks wanted gold, wouldn't gold be higher now already?

    If they didn't want it, wouldn't it be lower now already?

    Gold has been higher than today in each of the previous 6 years. So you tell me.

    Someday demand will increase, but right now, and you know this from industry sources Mr.Eureka, big buyers are scarce and bids are thin.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2017 9:57PM

    @cohodk said:

    @MrEureka said:

    @cohodk said:
    If folks wanted gold, wouldn't gold be higher now already?

    If they didn't want it, wouldn't it be lower now already?

    Gold has been higher than today in each of the previous 6 years. So you tell me.

    Someday demand will increase, but right now, and you know this from industry sources Mr.Eureka, big buyers are scarce and bids are thin.

    Those that still think of gold only as an investment need to climb out of their box.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's all so simple.

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