Actually in a TPG slab and sold by a major auction house described as "S-3 with period"...
I saw the prongs and I was making a joke that only you would understand based on the slabs we spoke about that you use in seminars. That's why it is a 1793 S-4F, w/Period after Liberty. The "F" = (fake). The fact that the S-4 exists indicates periods were used on a few of these coins. I'll bet you EAC guys know which obverse came first - the S-4 or the S-3.
Obviously, those dots were placed on each of those dies for a reason. As you know the S-4 has two and only some S-3's have the dot. It should be interesting to find out the earliest record of the S-3's. Overlays would be nice and what is the Condition Census of the S-3 w/dot?
Obviously, those dots were placed on each of those dies for a reason. As you know the S-4 has two and only some S-3's have the dot. It should be interesting to find out the earliest record of the S-3's. Overlays would be nice and what is the Condition Census of the S-3 w/dot?
Found another one; I actually call this the "dotted A" variety of struck counterfeit.
Beyond the "dot" is the odd damage on the shield imprinted on every example.
Four reported examples so far...
coin world has done at least two articles on dot coins. Has anyone kept these or know the issues?
Australian large cents have lots of dots/ varieties too.
Krueger
Nice, is it perfectly round? IMO, some of these dots we find were put on the die on purpose for a reason. As I posted in the beginning, I believe many of these dots signify something interesting.
I've been trying to find an image of either a half dime or dime dated either 1860 or 1861 with dots on each side of the date up near the base of the rock. I'll keep looking.
Hadn't [posted these here before. 1st image is of my original example, the 2nd came from the 2018 EAC Convention; I call it the "Dotted E" variety in my research!
I'm confused as to the distinction between "Mint-made" dots and "Man-made" dots. Since they are all raised dots, they were all done at the Mint (and presumable all done by members of Mankind). Are we talking about some kind of non-official dotting done by Mint employees on their own, or by accident, as opposed to official dotting done by Mint employees at the direction of their administrators?
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm confused as to the distinction between "Mint-made" dots and "Man-made" dots. Since they are all raised dots, they were all done at the Mint (and presumable all done by members of Mankind). Are we talking about some kind of non-official dotting done by Mint employees on their own, or by accident, as opposed to official dotting done by Mint employees at the direction of their administrators?
My "dotted" 1805 half cents are both counterfeits...
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm confused as to the distinction between "Mint-made" dots and "Man-made" dots. Since they are all raised dots, they were all done at the Mint (and presumable all done by members of Mankind). Are we talking about some kind of non-official dotting done by Mint employees on their own, or by accident, as opposed to official dotting done by Mint employees at the direction of their administrators?
A "man-made dot" is very uniform, often semi-hidden, and was put on the die for a reason. If you look at enough coins, you'll find all sorts of raised "dot-like" defects on a coin's surface, usually from pits in the die. Microscopically, these are not uniform and do not seem to have a pattern or reasonable placement.
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm confused as to the distinction between "Mint-made" dots and "Man-made" dots. Since they are all raised dots, they were all done at the Mint (and presumable all done by members of Mankind). Are we talking about some kind of non-official dotting done by Mint employees on their own, or by accident, as opposed to official dotting done by Mint employees at the direction of their administrators?
A "man-made dot" is very uniform, often semi-hidden, and was put on the die for a reason. If you look at enough coins, you'll find all sorts of raised "dot-like" defects on a coin's surface, usually from pits in the die. Microscopically, these are not uniform and do not seem to have a pattern or reasonable placement.
But you were, it seemed, intentionally excluding alignment dots from this category...
Maybe another way of explaining the dots are "fact" dots and "opinion" dots. Opinion dots being interesting because, AFAIK, no factual information exists explaining their creation and use. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm confused as to the distinction between "Mint-made" dots and "Man-made" dots. Since they are all raised dots, they were all done at the Mint (and presumable all done by members of Mankind). Are we talking about some kind of non-official dotting done by Mint employees on their own, or by accident, as opposed to official dotting done by Mint employees at the direction of their administrators?
A "man-made dot" is very uniform, often semi-hidden, and was put on the die for a reason. If you look at enough coins, you'll find all sorts of raised "dot-like" defects on a coin's surface, usually from pits in the die. Microscopically, these are not uniform and do not seem to have a pattern or reasonable placement.
But you were, it seemed, intentionally excluding alignment dots from this category...
Yes. while interesting, important, and mint made; they are common as dirt, and part of the normal design. For example, centering dots. Who cares? They are on the coin for a reason. The "dot" on the Philippine coin is "exciting." What did it signify? Was it intentional or not?
@Insider2 said:
surface, usually from pits in the die. Microscopically, these are not uniform and do not seem to have a pattern or reasonable placement.
But you were, it seemed, intentionally excluding alignment dots from this category...
Yes. while interesting, important, and mint made; they are common as dirt, and part of the normal design. For example, centering dots. Who cares? They are on the coin for a reason. The "dot" on the Philippine coin is "exciting." What did it signify? Was it intentional or not?
OK. Got it. So it's not really "Mint-made" or "man-made" but it's known dots and mystery dots.
Comments
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/9o/dkxvefsjuo98.jpg
One of the members Has posted this counterfeit 1/2c with IMHO has a "man-made dot."
See if you can find it.
Oops, I forgot I already posted this before.
Anyway, as I read this thread again I saw the California 50c. That is a neat one that I don't ever recall seeing and will start to look for it.
OK, here's one I haven't been able to explain- help appreciated!
The member agrees it is man made!
I think you know what this is. A Sheldon S-4F!
Actually sold by a major auction house described as "S-3 with period"...
International Nickel Company private pattern 1964. Centering spot for reducing lathe. Poor quality workmanship in cutting hub.
I saw the prongs and I was making a joke that only you would understand based on the slabs we spoke about that you use in seminars. That's why it is a 1793 S-4F, w/Period after Liberty. The "F" = (fake). The fact that the S-4 exists indicates periods were used on a few of these coins. I'll bet you EAC guys know which obverse came first - the S-4 or the S-3.
Obviously, those dots were placed on each of those dies for a reason. As you know the S-4 has two and only some S-3's have the dot. It should be interesting to find out the earliest record of the S-3's. Overlays would be nice and what is the Condition Census of the S-3 w/dot?
I understood the inside joke and chuckled!
So, you have seen other S-3's with the "dot"?
Dave
Yes, only images on Ebay and certified.
Found another one; I actually call this the "dotted A" variety of struck counterfeit.
Beyond the "dot" is the odd damage on the shield imprinted on every example.
Four reported examples so far...
Typical center dot seen on 1866 shield nickel proofs.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
This thread has made me a bit 'dotty'...
Actually, I am checking some of my coins for these dots now... will post if I find any... Cheers, RickO
coin world has done at least two articles on dot coins. Has anyone kept these or know the issues?
Australian large cents have lots of dots/ varieties too.
Krueger
U.S. Philippines Five Centavo
Nice, is it perfectly round? IMO, some of these dots we find were put on the die on purpose for a reason. As I posted in the beginning, I believe many of these dots signify something interesting.
I've been trying to find an image of either a half dime or dime dated either 1860 or 1861 with dots on each side of the date up near the base of the rock. I'll keep looking.
Hadn't [posted these here before. 1st image is of my original example, the 2nd came from the 2018 EAC Convention; I call it the "Dotted E" variety in my research!
Best, Jack.
Te dot is between the "E & R" of "Liberty."
I forgot all about this discussion. I saw a "marker dot" on a coin and cannot remember what the coin was at the moment.
I'm confused as to the distinction between "Mint-made" dots and "Man-made" dots. Since they are all raised dots, they were all done at the Mint (and presumable all done by members of Mankind). Are we talking about some kind of non-official dotting done by Mint employees on their own, or by accident, as opposed to official dotting done by Mint employees at the direction of their administrators?
My "dotted" 1805 half cents are both counterfeits...
A "man-made dot" is very uniform, often semi-hidden, and was put on the die for a reason. If you look at enough coins, you'll find all sorts of raised "dot-like" defects on a coin's surface, usually from pits in the die. Microscopically, these are not uniform and do not seem to have a pattern or reasonable placement.
But you were, it seemed, intentionally excluding alignment dots from this category...
Maybe another way of explaining the dots are "fact" dots and "opinion" dots. Opinion dots being interesting because, AFAIK, no factual information exists explaining their creation and use. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Yes. while interesting, important, and mint made; they are common as dirt, and part of the normal design. For example, centering dots. Who cares? They are on the coin for a reason. The "dot" on the Philippine coin is "exciting." What did it signify? Was it intentional or not?
OK. Got it. So it's not really "Mint-made" or "man-made" but it's known dots and mystery dots.