@FullStrike said:
Has the Mint considered striking and selling S minted - Lincolns lately? Those EU babies seem to be doing well. How about just plain BU by the bag and roll?
The Mint has been doing it with S-mint quarters since 2012 without generating much excitement. Mintages lately have been around only 1.1 million for each design, even though issue prices are low (35 cents each in 100-coin bags). None are struck for circulation and they do not even show up in the annual mint sets. Lincolns would probably attract more interest, but the price would have to be many multiples of face value to make it worthwhile for the Mint to launch such a program.
@IAMMore said:
There are still few dealers on ebay that will sell in OGP for $1900. A good price or rip-off? Any thoughts?
What dealers are selling them for under $2000? I would buy one at that price.
Go to Ebay. For the PatrioticMint listing, submit the offer for $1900, they seller will accept it. Looks like he has couple more left.
Thanks for the post!! I offered $1900 and they accepted just as you said.
I actually ordered one of these for a realtor friend who sold a property for me w/no commission as a thank you gift in August thinking that it may be a low mintage coin. I told him that my hunch was right. I didn't order one for myself though.
I'll let you all know how this one looks. Hopefully not a grading reject. Chasing the key is getting expensive. Could very well be lower next year with more competition from the palladium and other expensive cons. I don't feel too bad buying this one raw as it's not too much over the $1575 that I paid in August.
I had the 2012 W Burnished Gold Eagle in a pcgs first strike holder MS70 with OGP.... I did sell it, I think to Wondercoin, but did not make that much on it really. I thought I would have made more. I am not taking the bait on the 2017 W Burnished, I just can't get excited about low mintage anymore.... My opinion..
Thanks for the post!! I offered $1900 and they accepted just as you said.
I actually ordered one of these for a realtor friend who sold a property for me w/no commission as a thank you gift in August thinking that it may be a low mintage coin. I told him that my hunch was right. I didn't order one for myself though.
I'll let you all know how this one looks. Hopefully not a grading reject. Chasing the key is getting expensive. Could very well be lower next year with more competition from the palladium and other expensive cons. I don't feel too bad buying this one raw as it's not too much over the $1575 that I paid in August.
Thanks for the tip!!
Welcome.
It's gonna be interesting to see where this series go, but so far 2017 appears to be a good opportunity for collectors as overall the US Mint sales are down, not just in this series but others. Will next year bring even less sales? Could be, but the opposite is more likely to be true. We are racking up debt at records numbers 20 trillion + and other nations like China, India or Russia are growing at record pace and seeking to replace the dollar as world currency reserve. Weaker dollar means higher PMs. We won't be able to borrow our way out of this one with more QE's and printing fed notes. Both silver, and gold especially, are good way to hedge against economic instability and debt, and numismatic aspect is just a bonus. I won't even go into geopolitical mess in ME, Asia and Eastern Europe, which is a ticking bomb without a fuse.
Either way, it's probably good idea to pay attention to sale reports and see where the trend is going before diving in, especially if you're in it for the numismatic aspect pov. But don't wait too long. Only thing worst than making a bad decision, is not making one at all and missing out.
I'll let you all know how this one looks. Hopefully not a grading reject.
Sounds good. I will be getting one from this seller on Monday. Hoping for the nice coins as well. Will be sending off to NGC for grading with special West Point mint label. Vast majority of them are MS70, so we should be okay unless we get incredibly unlucky!
So far the seller has 2 positives reviews on those, so that's a good sign. As far as grading goes, should I send in OGP or take it out and put in plastic flip? I'm thinking send in OGP as I don't want to be handling it with hands and risking a scratch or spot. But will NGC send back the OGP?
@Tradedesk said:
If I have $1900 to spend now, will buy two Betty Ford unc. Or four boystown unc. This one won’t be the series key in a couple of years.
The boystown unc. might not be the series key in a couple of years either.
@IAMMore said:
So far the seller has 2 positives reviews on those, so that's a good sign. As far as grading goes, should I send in OGP or take it out and put in plastic flip? I'm thinking send in OGP as I don't want to be handling it with hands and risking a scratch or spot. But will NGC send back the OGP?
NGC will return OGP for a small fee (I think $5). No need to send all the OGP, just send the coin, undisturbed, in its mint capsule.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@Tradedesk said:
If I have $1900 to spend now, will buy two Betty Ford unc. Or four boystown unc. This one won’t be the series key in a couple of years.
The boystown unc. might not be the series key in a couple of years either.
What makes u think Nixon unc won't come in lower?
I bought raw as I'll not be down as much when it's unseated. I'm sure it will b eventually.
Just heads up, I got the coin today and I am returning it. The seller has no return policy, but I am covered under ebay guarantee. It appears like the coin has been tampered with, it moves in the capsule, has a lot of hair inside and the strangest what appears like 1 cm long piece of something!
Also noticed what appears like small cuts on the rays under 5x. Seller accepted return under pressure but was not happy. I can't believe he would send a coin like this. I asked for better exchange but I doubt that will happen, don't trust this seller anymore. I noticed he had one neg review where buyer claims the packing didn't match the coin. Not a big deal for me because I got another one at $1850 for a different seller which looks amazing but had I know this, I would have gotten 2 from him. The guy is sold out now! I hope you guys get more lucky and don't have the same problem! Knock on the wood! Otherwise I'd feel really bad for recommending this seller!
This coin was obviously taken out of its holder in a dusty environment. What is that anyway, algae? In a couple years there will growth in this petri dish.
There is no way I was going to send this to NGC for grading, they would mark it down one point just for capsule appearance and all the debris inside! Keep an eye out on this when you receive your coins from this seller, make sure it doesn't move around in capsule and looks like it was tampered with. Petri dish would be a good way to describe this environment:
@Onastone said:
This coin was obviously taken out of its holder in a dusty environment. What is that anyway, algae? In a couple years there will growth in this petri dish.
seller also has graded MS70's listed. What does that tell you? I have yet to see a 69 on ebay since final sale numbers were released.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@Onastone said:
This coin was obviously taken out of its holder in a dusty environment. What is that anyway, algae? In a couple years there will growth in this petri dish.
seller also has graded MS70's listed. What does that tell you? I have yet to see a 69 on ebay since final sale numbers were released.
Tells me all that I need to know about what's coming my way. If it's horrible back it goes.
I did, he accepted the return (though uneasily) and covered the shipping since I claimed (item not as described). But when I mentioned exchanging for better coin, he did not respond. So I'm sure I'll be getting a refund. Derryb makes a good point. Was really disappointed when I got it, the freaking thing was dancing in the capsule. Whoever opened it, didn't even bother to remove the huge piece of whatever that green thing is!
There was another seller on ebay I got the other coin from. He sold all 7 pretty fast last week. It's drop dead gorgeous and sits nice and tight in the holder, also the strike looks much nicer. I'm thinking at this point only hope for getting another one at decent price is an ebay listing by another seller. So I guess it's hard to put them all in one basket, not all dealers are alike.
I'm not holding my breath for a decent coin from this guy, hope I'm wrong. I know buying a raw one this late in the game it's not going to be a 70, but if i get a scratched, tampered with coin with foreign material in the airtight, it's going back asap
There is no way I was going to send this to NGC for grading, they would mark it down one point just for capsule appearance and all the debris inside! Keep an eye out on this when you receive your coins from this seller, make sure it doesn't move around in capsule and looks like it was tampered with. Petri dish would be a good way to describe this environment:
Do you guys know when US Mint release burnished gold eagles for sale? Is it sometime in January or further down in the year? I have no idea, haven't purchased directly from the mint before.
@IAMMore said:
Do you guys know when US Mint release burnished gold eagles for sale? Is it sometime in January or further down in the year? I have no idea, haven't purchased directly from the mint before.
2017 W was released on June 1st. Date of release varies year to year. Any remaining on the shelf get sold into the following year.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@IAMMore said:
Just heads up, I got the coin today and I am returning it. The seller has no return policy, but I am covered under ebay guarantee. It appears like the coin has been tampered with, it moves in the capsule, has a lot of hair inside and the strangest what appears like 1 cm long piece of something!
Also noticed what appears like small cuts on the rays under 5x. Seller accepted return under pressure but was not happy. I can't believe he would send a coin like this. I asked for better exchange but I doubt that will happen, don't trust this seller anymore. I noticed he had one neg review where buyer claims the packing didn't match the coin. Not a big deal for me because I got another one at $1850 for a different seller which looks amazing but had I know this, I would have gotten 2 from him. The guy is sold out now! I hope you guys get more lucky and don't have the same problem! Knock on the wood! Otherwise I'd feel really bad for recommending this seller!
The presence of the green thread indicates coin capsule was most likely opened after it left the mint. On low mintage items some sellers have been known to remove coins that graded less than a 70 from their TPG holder and repackage/sell them as original mint products. A close inspection of the edge of the capsule will often reveal it has been opened - they are not easily opened as is a regular airtite capsule. Note that I am not accusing your seller of doing this.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
This coin was clearly opened at some point, which undermines the integrity of the item because we don't know why. There is not point in taking the coin out of the capsule just to look at it as it's clearly visible through the capsule. Also, the capsule didn't fit right and coin was moving around in it. It is also interesting that seller first posted the raw coins in OGP and after selling out, he starting posting MS70's. Clearly, he is not a master concealer when it comes to erasing the footprints .
Hopefully the other guys get better luck than me. I have contacted the other seller that sold me a nice one. He may be getting more of them soon, so if hear back from him I will send an update in case anyone else may be interested. Especially, if you end up returning like I did.
I see no reason not to remove the coin from it's capsule and examine it for flaws. It wouldn't bother me in the least whether or not the coin has debris inside the capsule if the coin looked good when I looked at it. Come on, guys - in cases like this, a low mintage date - it's about the coin, not the holder. Get a sharp eye and start looking at your raw coins. You can do it.
Even a raw coin that eventually grades SP-69 in this date might still be good enough to hold onto, especially if the price is right. It's a decent photo, and I don't see any detractions such as nicks, rubs, rim dings - and the surfaces appear pretty nice. The green fiber could have come from anywhere, including the Mint.
There's what looks like a small possible piece of lint or a small mark on the coin near the star at the end of Liberty's hair, and the scepter might have a very tiny scratch, very tiny - but those aren't visible at grading magnification, and they can only be evaluated by putting an eyeball on the bare coin, out of the capsule. I don't see a problem with the obverse.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Ahah. The problem might be right on Liberty's neck (in the larger photo), the possible seed for the start of a corrosion cell. If that's the problem it can still be removed by PCGS for $100 total cost.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
I see no reason not to remove the coin from it's capsule and examine it for flaws. It wouldn't bother me in the least whether or not the coin has debris inside the capsule if the coin looked good when I looked at it.
I'd have to disagree with this assessment. What reason does the dealer have to remove the coin from original mint capsule if they plan to sell it in OGP as brand new and untouched? If the dealer went through them and picked out nicest ones to send out for grading that would be unfair to end customer. It would be a different story if he sent all 10 or 20 coins for grading, and got 18 MS70 and 2 MS69, with appropriate price adjustment, in which case the customer knows what they're getting. You are also false advertising when marketing as untouched brand new in OGP, but open OGP to tamper with the coin for whatever reason. I believe that's unethical.
In addition to this, the coin has numerous nicks on the rays but they are not evident in the way I took the picture. Also since the coin was opened in very dusty environment, there are some hair pieces that have attached to the surface of the coin on the reverse.
I have purchased a coin for $50 less than this one, and it looks 10 time better, no dust, no movement in the capsule, no foreign matter and no nicks. Could you still keep the coin and resell? Sure. But I'm looking for quality coin to send for grading and do not want any surprises.
@IAMMore said:
It would be a different story if he sent all 10 or 20 coins for grading, and got 18 MS70 and 2 MS69, with appropriate price adjustment, in which case the customer knows what they're getting. You are also false advertising when marketing as untouched brand new in OGP, but open OGP to tamper with the coin for whatever reason. I believe that's unethical and wrong.
I don't consider it unethical to open a mint capsule for closer inspection (really not necessary). Second hand buyers of mint products should be aware that this is always a possibility when buying from a third party. What's unethical is to crack out the 69's, return them to their OGP, and them sell them as "directly from the mint."
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@92vette said:
The mint report just out dropped the burnished $50 from the report. So maybe 5800 will stick until final finals.
I agree with you. I believe 5800 will stand as the number until they release the finalized and audited mintage at some later date. When they eventually do release that number, which could be in years, the mintage will be lower than 5800 for certain.
If I'm buying a raw "collector bullion" coin from a dealer, I have no expectation that it's going to be an SP-70. I really don't care what the dealer's story is - it's MY responsibility to decide if the coin warrants my keeping it. I wouldn't buy from a dealer that doesn't have a return option.
I didn't read all of the previous posts and if the dealer represented the coin as untouched and it has been handled, then yes, it's unethical for him to lie about whether or not the coin is untouched.
After filling in more of the blanks regarding hair and dust, that wasn't mentioned in the posts that I did read, so that would seem to be additional evidence of handling - of course! And again, that's goes to how the coin was represented when you bought it, or rather, misrepresented.
Still, when buying a raw coin I would say that this all comes with the territory and even if you got a coin from someone else that is super-nice, that has no bearing on how you should evaluate this coin and whether or not you should return it. If the condition of the coin doesn't meet with your approval, send it back for a refund and just don't buy from that dealer again.
Lastly, I've had crap coins in original Mint packaging, directly from the Mint. I've also had pristine coins directly from the Mint that the PCGS graders didn't grade as 70s, and I've had previously-graded crap MS-69 coins graded by PCGS that I've sent back in and had graded MS-66, to prove a point to myself and to them. It proved the point to me, but not necessarily to PCGS.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@derryb said:
I don't consider it unethical to open a mint capsule for closer inspection (really not necessary).
Agreed, but as a dealer why would you do that? As noted, it's completely unnecessary and you are potentially compromising mint state of the coin either with you hands, dust and/or foreign matter. If you are the end customer, I can totally understand taking it out, but not as a dealer that plans on re-selling advertised as DFM.
@derryb said:
I don't consider it unethical to open a mint capsule for closer inspection (really not necessary).
Agreed, but as a dealer why would you do that? As noted, it's completely unnecessary and you are potentially compromising mint state of the coin either with you hands, dust and/or foreign matter. If you are the end customer, I can totally understand taking it out, but not as a dealer that plans on re-selling advertised as DFM.
Many of the ebay flippers are not real dealers and don't know to keep the capsule closed until it gets to the TPG.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I just received mine. I have to say that I'm very pleasantly surprised. The coin looks very good. There is a very small distraction near one of the rays which is barely visible to the naked eye and a small rim ding on the obverse at 7 o'clock. The rim is much better than my palladium 70FS. Overall, an extremely nice coin.
The seller shipped fast and the coins was well packaged. No complaints at all.
Thanks much for the tip on the seller and that they'd take the $2900 BO.
I will probably end up leaving negative review to the seller, I don't do it often. I actually wrote him after making the payment and said I would be sending the coin for grading, hoping he would send a nice one. So the disappointment was pretty high. On top of that when requesting return he made comment that I'm just looking to find any reason to return. He's got like 8 negatives, so I gather he doesn't care either way.
I received mine today, at first glance the airtight was no doubt opened, (pry marks on the edge) but with a quick inspection the coin itself looked ok, nothing sticking out to the naked eye. I haven't pulled out my loup and looked at it closely yet, so I'll reserve judgement until I can do That tomorrow.
Comments
What dealers are selling them for under $2000? I would buy one at that price.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
The Mint has been doing it with S-mint quarters since 2012 without generating much excitement. Mintages lately have been around only 1.1 million for each design, even though issue prices are low (35 cents each in 100-coin bags). None are struck for circulation and they do not even show up in the annual mint sets. Lincolns would probably attract more interest, but the price would have to be many multiples of face value to make it worthwhile for the Mint to launch such a program.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Go to Ebay. For the PatrioticMint listing, submit the offer for $1900, they seller will accept it. Looks like he has couple more left.
Thanks for the post!! I offered $1900 and they accepted just as you said.
I actually ordered one of these for a realtor friend who sold a property for me w/no commission as a thank you gift in August thinking that it may be a low mintage coin. I told him that my hunch was right. I didn't order one for myself though.
I'll let you all know how this one looks. Hopefully not a grading reject. Chasing the key is getting expensive. Could very well be lower next year with more competition from the palladium and other expensive cons. I don't feel too bad buying this one raw as it's not too much over the $1575 that I paid in August.
Thanks for the tip!!
If I have $1900 to spend now, will buy two Betty Ford unc. Or four boystown unc. This one won’t be the series key in a couple of years.
I had the 2012 W Burnished Gold Eagle in a pcgs first strike holder MS70 with OGP.... I did sell it, I think to Wondercoin, but did not make that much on it really. I thought I would have made more. I am not taking the bait on the 2017 W Burnished, I just can't get excited about low mintage anymore.... My opinion..
Welcome.
It's gonna be interesting to see where this series go, but so far 2017 appears to be a good opportunity for collectors as overall the US Mint sales are down, not just in this series but others. Will next year bring even less sales? Could be, but the opposite is more likely to be true. We are racking up debt at records numbers 20 trillion + and other nations like China, India or Russia are growing at record pace and seeking to replace the dollar as world currency reserve. Weaker dollar means higher PMs. We won't be able to borrow our way out of this one with more QE's and printing fed notes. Both silver, and gold especially, are good way to hedge against economic instability and debt, and numismatic aspect is just a bonus. I won't even go into geopolitical mess in ME, Asia and Eastern Europe, which is a ticking bomb without a fuse.
Either way, it's probably good idea to pay attention to sale reports and see where the trend is going before diving in, especially if you're in it for the numismatic aspect pov. But don't wait too long. Only thing worst than making a bad decision, is not making one at all and missing out.
Sounds good. I will be getting one from this seller on Monday. Hoping for the nice coins as well. Will be sending off to NGC for grading with special West Point mint label. Vast majority of them are MS70, so we should be okay unless we get incredibly unlucky!
I grabbed one also. Hope they're not the rejects. Will post when I get it. I think they are are down the last one.
Grab it while you can.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
So far the seller has 2 positives reviews on those, so that's a good sign. As far as grading goes, should I send in OGP or take it out and put in plastic flip? I'm thinking send in OGP as I don't want to be handling it with hands and risking a scratch or spot. But will NGC send back the OGP?
The boystown unc. might not be the series key in a couple of years either.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
NGC will return OGP for a small fee (I think $5). No need to send all the OGP, just send the coin, undisturbed, in its mint capsule.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
What makes u think Nixon unc won't come in lower?
I bought raw as I'll not be down as much when it's unseated. I'm sure it will b eventually.
Just heads up, I got the coin today and I am returning it. The seller has no return policy, but I am covered under ebay guarantee. It appears like the coin has been tampered with, it moves in the capsule, has a lot of hair inside and the strangest what appears like 1 cm long piece of something!
Also noticed what appears like small cuts on the rays under 5x. Seller accepted return under pressure but was not happy. I can't believe he would send a coin like this. I asked for better exchange but I doubt that will happen, don't trust this seller anymore. I noticed he had one neg review where buyer claims the packing didn't match the coin. Not a big deal for me because I got another one at $1850 for a different seller which looks amazing but had I know this, I would have gotten 2 from him. The guy is sold out now! I hope you guys get more lucky and don't have the same problem! Knock on the wood! Otherwise I'd feel really bad for recommending this seller!
This coin was obviously taken out of its holder in a dusty environment. What is that anyway, algae? In a couple years there will growth in this petri dish.
There is no way I was going to send this to NGC for grading, they would mark it down one point just for capsule appearance and all the debris inside! Keep an eye out on this when you receive your coins from this seller, make sure it doesn't move around in capsule and looks like it was tampered with. Petri dish would be a good way to describe this environment:
I'll let you all know how mine looks.
Did you tell the seller about this yet? I'd give them a chance to refund it and pay for return shipping.
seller also has graded MS70's listed. What does that tell you? I have yet to see a 69 on ebay since final sale numbers were released.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Tells me all that I need to know about what's coming my way. If it's horrible back it goes.
I never expect a perfect modern raw coin from a seller who sells graded modern coins.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I did, he accepted the return (though uneasily) and covered the shipping since I claimed (item not as described). But when I mentioned exchanging for better coin, he did not respond. So I'm sure I'll be getting a refund. Derryb makes a good point. Was really disappointed when I got it, the freaking thing was dancing in the capsule. Whoever opened it, didn't even bother to remove the huge piece of whatever that green thing is!
It also tells me the surest way to buy these in the future is directly from the mint or already graded MS70 at decent price.
There was another seller on ebay I got the other coin from. He sold all 7 pretty fast last week. It's drop dead gorgeous and sits nice and tight in the holder, also the strike looks much nicer. I'm thinking at this point only hope for getting another one at decent price is an ebay listing by another seller. So I guess it's hard to put them all in one basket, not all dealers are alike.
I'm not holding my breath for a decent coin from this guy, hope I'm wrong. I know buying a raw one this late in the game it's not going to be a 70, but if i get a scratched, tampered with coin with foreign material in the airtight, it's going back asap
. > @IAMMore said:
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
Do you guys know when US Mint release burnished gold eagles for sale? Is it sometime in January or further down in the year? I have no idea, haven't purchased directly from the mint before.
Its always been in the spring/ early summer.
Thanks
2017 W was released on June 1st. Date of release varies year to year. Any remaining on the shelf get sold into the following year.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
The presence of the green thread indicates coin capsule was most likely opened after it left the mint. On low mintage items some sellers have been known to remove coins that graded less than a 70 from their TPG holder and repackage/sell them as original mint products. A close inspection of the edge of the capsule will often reveal it has been opened - they are not easily opened as is a regular airtite capsule. Note that I am not accusing your seller of doing this.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
The mint report just out dropped the burnished $50 from the report. So maybe 5800 will stick until final finals.
This coin was clearly opened at some point, which undermines the integrity of the item because we don't know why. There is not point in taking the coin out of the capsule just to look at it as it's clearly visible through the capsule. Also, the capsule didn't fit right and coin was moving around in it. It is also interesting that seller first posted the raw coins in OGP and after selling out, he starting posting MS70's. Clearly, he is not a master concealer when it comes to erasing the footprints
.
Hopefully the other guys get better luck than me. I have contacted the other seller that sold me a nice one. He may be getting more of them soon, so if hear back from him I will send an update in case anyone else may be interested. Especially, if you end up returning like I did.
Thanks for the feedback on the release date. Good to know.
I see no reason not to remove the coin from it's capsule and examine it for flaws. It wouldn't bother me in the least whether or not the coin has debris inside the capsule if the coin looked good when I looked at it. Come on, guys - in cases like this, a low mintage date - it's about the coin, not the holder. Get a sharp eye and start looking at your raw coins. You can do it.
Even a raw coin that eventually grades SP-69 in this date might still be good enough to hold onto, especially if the price is right. It's a decent photo, and I don't see any detractions such as nicks, rubs, rim dings - and the surfaces appear pretty nice. The green fiber could have come from anywhere, including the Mint.
There's what looks like a small possible piece of lint or a small mark on the coin near the star at the end of Liberty's hair, and the scepter might have a very tiny scratch, very tiny - but those aren't visible at grading magnification, and they can only be evaluated by putting an eyeball on the bare coin, out of the capsule. I don't see a problem with the obverse.
I knew it would happen.
Ahah. The problem might be right on Liberty's neck (in the larger photo), the possible seed for the start of a corrosion cell. If that's the problem it can still be removed by PCGS for $100 total cost.
I knew it would happen.
I'd have to disagree with this assessment. What reason does the dealer have to remove the coin from original mint capsule if they plan to sell it in OGP as brand new and untouched? If the dealer went through them and picked out nicest ones to send out for grading that would be unfair to end customer. It would be a different story if he sent all 10 or 20 coins for grading, and got 18 MS70 and 2 MS69, with appropriate price adjustment, in which case the customer knows what they're getting. You are also false advertising when marketing as untouched brand new in OGP, but open OGP to tamper with the coin for whatever reason. I believe that's unethical.
In addition to this, the coin has numerous nicks on the rays but they are not evident in the way I took the picture. Also since the coin was opened in very dusty environment, there are some hair pieces that have attached to the surface of the coin on the reverse.
I have purchased a coin for $50 less than this one, and it looks 10 time better, no dust, no movement in the capsule, no foreign matter and no nicks. Could you still keep the coin and resell? Sure. But I'm looking for quality coin to send for grading and do not want any surprises.
I don't consider it unethical to open a mint capsule for closer inspection (really not necessary). Second hand buyers of mint products should be aware that this is always a possibility when buying from a third party. What's unethical is to crack out the 69's, return them to their OGP, and them sell them as "directly from the mint."
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I agree with you. I believe 5800 will stand as the number until they release the finalized and audited mintage at some later date. When they eventually do release that number, which could be in years, the mintage will be lower than 5800 for certain.
If I'm buying a raw "collector bullion" coin from a dealer, I have no expectation that it's going to be an SP-70. I really don't care what the dealer's story is - it's MY responsibility to decide if the coin warrants my keeping it. I wouldn't buy from a dealer that doesn't have a return option.
I didn't read all of the previous posts and if the dealer represented the coin as untouched and it has been handled, then yes, it's unethical for him to lie about whether or not the coin is untouched.
After filling in more of the blanks regarding hair and dust, that wasn't mentioned in the posts that I did read, so that would seem to be additional evidence of handling - of course! And again, that's goes to how the coin was represented when you bought it, or rather, misrepresented.
Still, when buying a raw coin I would say that this all comes with the territory and even if you got a coin from someone else that is super-nice, that has no bearing on how you should evaluate this coin and whether or not you should return it. If the condition of the coin doesn't meet with your approval, send it back for a refund and just don't buy from that dealer again.
Lastly, I've had crap coins in original Mint packaging, directly from the Mint. I've also had pristine coins directly from the Mint that the PCGS graders didn't grade as 70s, and I've had previously-graded crap MS-69 coins graded by PCGS that I've sent back in and had graded MS-66, to prove a point to myself and to them. It proved the point to me, but not necessarily to PCGS.
I knew it would happen.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. . . . . . . and the grader.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
If I buy bullion coins from a dealer, its always PCGS 70. I just look for the best deal.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Agreed, but as a dealer why would you do that? As noted, it's completely unnecessary and you are potentially compromising mint state of the coin either with you hands, dust and/or foreign matter. If you are the end customer, I can totally understand taking it out, but not as a dealer that plans on re-selling advertised as DFM.
Many of the ebay flippers are not real dealers and don't know to keep the capsule closed until it gets to the TPG.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I just received mine. I have to say that I'm very pleasantly surprised. The coin looks very good. There is a very small distraction near one of the rays which is barely visible to the naked eye and a small rim ding on the obverse at 7 o'clock. The rim is much better than my palladium 70FS. Overall, an extremely nice coin.
The seller shipped fast and the coins was well packaged. No complaints at all.
Thanks much for the tip on the seller and that they'd take the $2900 BO.
Happy to hear it went well for you. Not a problem.
Did you mean the $1900 offer?
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Yes, the $1900 offer. Coin is fantastic. Service was excellent.
Thank you!!! Really appreciate the tip!!
I will probably end up leaving negative review to the seller, I don't do it often. I actually wrote him after making the payment and said I would be sending the coin for grading, hoping he would send a nice one. So the disappointment was pretty high. On top of that when requesting return he made comment that I'm just looking to find any reason to return. He's got like 8 negatives, so I gather he doesn't care either way.
I received mine today, at first glance the airtight was no doubt opened, (pry marks on the edge) but with a quick inspection the coin itself looked ok, nothing sticking out to the naked eye. I haven't pulled out my loup and looked at it closely yet, so I'll reserve judgement until I can do That tomorrow.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
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Good to hear.