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Fake RCM gold bar surfaces
derryb
Posts: 36,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
when there's one there are usually more
Another good reason to own a Sigma Precious Metal Verifier. I buy a lot of RCM silver bars. Each and everyone of them get checked with my PMV.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
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The fact that this was bought at the bank is the main issue. Those fakes have been out there. Didn't we post some sideXside spots a while ago for these??
Wonder if someone at the bank did a switcheroo?
Wonder what the bank's source of the bars is. If only the RCM then the switch could have been made by an RCM employee who took the good one home. Results of this investigation will be interesting.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Interesting. And concerning at the same time.
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_He carried the business-card-sized bar, still sealed in its Royal Canadian Mint blister-pack, back to his shop.
His goldsmith, Dennis Barnard, said he cut open the plastic mint packing and placed the one-ounce wafer in a hand-cranked jeweller's tableting mill._
Occam's razor.
If a Royal Bank of Canada branch had received the bar from the mint, inventoried it by serial number, logged it into their computer system, then sold it via standard inventory control, it is incredibly unlikely that it was fake anywhere along that supply chain. And they're examining the video footage to double-check the status of the bar before it left the bank.
The story implies the bank was not willing to refund the jeweler's money at his first attempt of returning it. That is suspicious. The story goes on to say that the mint representative could tell it was not authentic before testing was complete--in other words, it's a fake and not an especially good one.
So the bar was likely (not definitely, but likely) real while at the bank and at the point of sale. And the bar was obviously not genuine as it was opened at the jeweler's.
What is the most probable point at which the real bar turned into a fake bar? In the hands of the jeweler, or his assistant.
Regardless: Many of us have been warning for years about buying bullion in blister cards. Occasional purchases from known dealers are fine. But putting a layer of plastic that you are unlikely to open between you and your gold is a dangerous proposition and an excellent way for crooks to fool you.
--Severian the Lame
Geez !!!
the whole idea of a bar sealed in plastic is dumber than a sack of doorknobs
putting a layer of plastic that you are unlikely to open between you and your gold is a dangerous proposition and an excellent way for crooks to fool you.
the whole idea of a bar sealed in plastic is dumber than a sack of doorknobs
Agreed. As time goes by, I think that getting a good tester and a digital scale might be the way to go, except that I always buy bullion coins instead of bars, and I always buy them from an established high profile dealer. That being said, I was lucky in getting out sooner rather than later with NW Territorial Mint, Tulving, and SBSS, once it was clear that things weren't exactly right.
I knew it would happen.
I had a 10 ounce PAMP gold bar in plastic, and 20 or 25 PAMP one ounce gold bars in blister packs at one point many years ago. I reasoned they were the most generic, easy to store, non-numismatic plain Jane gold and they came sealed, tamper-evident, unlikely to become scratched or damaged.
A little more than 5 years back I had a sneaking sense of doom that lead ultimately to an epiphany: When generic, largely nondescript pieces of bullion are sealed in blister packs, you can't touch them, heft them, weigh them, examine them closely, compare them to known authentic pieces accurately. You can't easily electronically test them. You can't use calipers on them. Forget about specific gravity or invasive tests like touchstone/acid testing. Without an online image file or serial number-specific database (like PCGS or NGC cert verification), there is almost no way to check authenticity on individual pieces. And even those rare pieces where you can check to see if a serial number actually exists, they lack the individual characteristics of coins that can be noted and verified.
Unlike NCLT (Eagles, Maples, etc), there are few if any regulations about making fake pieces and enforcement against forgers seems to be non-existent.
Instead of being the ultimate in precious metal security and safety, blister packs provide a very dangerous false sense of security. They are literally a forger's wet dream.
Gold is gold for a reason. Distance yourself from your gold at your own peril.
I dumped these immediately and went for pieces I can verify at least a few different ways. Never again.
--Severian the Lame
I stick to mint gold and silver.... Yes, I have a few silver rounds as well, but those are 'special' pieces and in the minority. I do have gold from the Canadian mint and a Mexican piece or two.... they are authentic though. I would not buy 'sealed in plastic' items.... I should buy a PMV.... have not done so since my acquisition rate (at least recently) does not justify the cost.... I should look for a used one.... Cheers, RickO
I had the same exact thought 3 years ago, but with 5 gram PAMP bars instead, lol. I no longer by any bullion bars. I stick to what I know best, 90% coinage and ASE's.