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1805 Double Struck Draped Bust Quarter G-T-G ~ GRADE POSTED
1TwoBits
Posts: 452 ✭✭✭✭
This is one of my favorite bust quarters purchased from MrEureka many years ago.
Feel free to guess the PCGS grade and post any comments you might have.
Thanks again MrEureka!
1TwoBits
Searching for bust quarters.....counterstamps, errors, and AU-MS varieties, please let me know if you can help.
11
Comments
I grade it double struck off center & rotated! The PCGS grade would not matter to me and I would prefer it raw as choice AU.
Wow. Looking at obv. I thought damage/repair, but the Rev., wow.
Most common 1805 variety. But unique error, and such high grade, very nice piece. One could quinnle whether she's a technical 48 or 51 out of 70, but does ir really matter?
The specialists' dream coin, thx for posting
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
That is awesome!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I was also thinking choice AU.
I'm creating a new grade for it.. AF-49 "Amazingly Fine" What a fantastic coin, thank you for sharing it.
That's really cool.
That's a really cool coin!!
Wow! I've never seen anything like that. My guess would be 45-50 on the grade, but that hardly matters.
Thank you for the guesses and comments. It's a common variety as Baley noted (B-3), and easily identified by the gap in the dentils over E2 on the reverse. Everyone is pretty honed in on the grade, which is AU50.
The remnants of the double striking are hard to miss, at least on the reverse. I used to think that maybe it was triple struck when trying to figure out the obverse from 11:00-1:00, but think that may not be the case. If you look closely where the E in Liberty is, you will see what appears to be incuse tail feathers from the eagle. Do you agree?
For there to be this small amount of brockage from the tail feathers, I think it would point to the coin struck before this one being stuck in the coining chamber at the time of the off center strike. When the off center strike was done with the preceding coin stuck in the chamber, it imparted the tail feather brockage. It's a bit confusing, but if it's the case, does this mean that the reverse die was the hammer die? Did the preceding coin flip over in the chamber? Another explanation?
What are your thoughts on the upper obverse area? Do you think it's brockage from the tail feathers or something else? I'd be curious to hear from those who posted to the thread already like @Nysoto, @Baley, @TomB , @logger7, @jtlee321, @Idhair, @Flatwoods, and @kaz. I'd also be curious to hear from @FredWeinberg and any others who would like to chime in. Thanks again.
1TwoBits
Fascinating coin, there are all kinds of things going on including clash marks, die cracks, and of course the error (s)
I do discern the tail feathers on the obv as you describe..as nice as those pictures are, it would be great to see more, and if possible ultra high resolution ones, and tilted angle shots of several areas. Lots going on here..
How cool would it be to locate the companion coin(s)?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Awesome leaves and berries in the tail, and diagonal shield stripes on the arrows and shield. So, struck once slightly off center, with obv the anvil and rev hammer die, then rotated slightly upon recentering, and struck again?
Question, whether right away (stop the press, do it right then), or was it later, with other coins struck between?
As far as the obv E/ tail feather evidence, this coin appears to document the incident that causes the B3 to typically have such a weak E.
An important coin for fans of the early quarters.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Wonderful coin!
Can you take a closeup of the ER in LIBERTY area, and the corresponding reverse? I really can't see what you mean about the tail feathers.
And FWIW, when I was at ANACS in the early 80's we got in a high grade Turban Head $10 that has been struck with a normal obverse and a full brockage of the obverse design on the reverse, which was then put back in the press and struck six more times to try to obliterate the brockage. I counted seven strikes on the obverse and six raised strikes on the reverse, plus the remains of the brockage. Would love to see that coin again!
So, it is quite possible that this coin was deliberately restruck to try to hide an error first strike.
TD
The reverse is explainable as a double strike, where the first strike was off center, then centered and rotated for the second strike. I can't make out what is going on with the obverse, but it could have been a failed ejection/brockage of some sort.
Yes, I believe that is the case from the reverse second strike evidence. A number of years ago Chris Pilliod theorized that 1805-1806 half dollars were struck with the reverse as the hammer die (JRJ), because of the large number of reverse full cuds in those years, whereas there are no true obverse full cuds as they remained retained because gravity would not allow the die chip to fall out - such as on the 1805/4 O.103 big triangular retained obverse cud.
Baley, that is a very interesting comment about the weak E. Perhaps this coin could have contributed to that if there was a coin partially stuck in the chamber. Maybe the strike that created the brockage of the tail feathers could have damaged the reverse die where the E in Liberty is, making the relief more shallow such that it didn't stike up as well there afterwards. I should probably look at examples on Heritage to see if many even have strong E's or if most are weakly struck.
CaptHenway, I'll have to see about closeups. Basically coming right off the top of the E is the outline of the incuse tail feathers. It looks like the outline of the picture below and doesn't appear to be from leaves. I think the three feathers on the left.
That $10 Turban Head sounds wild! I would love to see that one
Nysoto, thank you for the additional comments.
1TwoBits
who cares about the grade.
I grade it WOW!
BHNC #203
That is certainly an very interesting coin..... Thanks for sharing... Cheers, RickO
Here's her younger sister (who also had a dalliance with Mr. Eureka at one point)...
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Mr. Eureka, Is just a total magnet for all the chicks which are a little off
Capt H, I believe that Eagle may have been at JDs table at Denver ANA...it was very cool.
I'm pretty sure you saw the 1813 $5 Brockage maker. It's a wacky coin.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
That's the one! I'd never seen anything like it.
Another one with Mr. Eureka's fingerprints all over it. JD and I bought it from him and researched it/got it holdered. The edge on that coin is fascinating.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
We would, of course, like to see photos of these amazing-sounding coins!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Very nice, I like it, congratulations !!!