so how is the seller doing this?? are they doing a cut paste into the PCGS cert picture with their bogus coins, using fake slabs and cert numbers or what??
This guy has been discussed for many months here. Since ebay has no interest in doing anything about it I'm glad someone is interested. He has to be stopped from peddling this garbage.
@keets said:
so how is the seller doing this?? are they doing a cut paste into the PCGS cert picture with their bogus coins, using fake slabs and cert numbers or what??
@keets said:
so how is the seller doing this?? are they doing a cut paste into the PCGS cert picture with their bogus coins, using fake slabs and cert numbers or what??
This guy is taking real coins that were certified by PCGS and than "gassing" them, inside the holder, to artificially tone them.
I think this slime ball is simply buying untoned coins in PCGS holders, gassing them and then sending them to PCGS for a re-holder and TV. I'm glad to see that PCGS is stepping up and nuking this fraud. I hope he's the next Florida coin dealer we read about going to jail...
@jtlee321 said:
I think this slime ball is simply buying untoned coins in PCGS holders, gassing them and then sending them to PCGS for a re-holder and TV. I'm glad to see that PCGS is stepping up and nuking this fraud. I hope he's the next Florida coin dealer we read about going to jail...
Was trying to piece it together exactly what he's doing and this has to be just it. The fact that he has TV's and is claiming MS grades (even tho he doesn't image the holders for some reason) and not details grades makes your story make the most sense since those would never straight grade in a normal submission.
It looks like PCGS is going back and reviewing all the cert# that they gave this guy recently and nuking them.
Here are some completed auctions where the cert# is no longer valid.
I don't think they were in actual 'Secure' holders, they look like older cert numbers.
I think his scam like @jtlee321 said, was to gas in holder and them resubmit for re-holder and Trueview.
I would guess there might be many new owners that will end up with coins in invalid cert# holders.
I'm glad to see that PCGS is trying to do the right thing and maybe all re-holders will have to go under some kind of review process to prevent others from trying to do the same thing.
I think thanks should go to the OP and all previous posters that posted images from this seller pointing out the problem
PCGS has some clout with eBay. They've worked closely together before.
IMO PCGS should persuade eBay to require a cert# on its listing of a PCGS coin, and run a verification script to check out the cert before accepting the listing.
It wouldn't be hard to implement, would be transparent to sellers, and would reinforce the actions PCGS appears to be taking by killing certs of tampered-with coins.
Lance.
The next step is to re-train the re-holdering and photographic staff to catch these before they get re-holdered. They don't need to become experts....but should know enough to seek out the experts if something "funny" comes back for TrueViews. Maybe just have one of the graders quickly flip through whatever stack of coins is set for re-holdering.....
My first reaction to Tommy's suggestion was "impractical" due to the volume and the wide variety of toning in many series.
But on second thought, why couldn't a pro quickly look through the much smaller subset of coins submitted just for reholdering and True Views...ones graders would normally not see?
Lance.
I was looking through the all the recent Trueview images on the Coinfacts page last week and remember seeing around 100 images in a row that had this same kind of toning but didn't make the connection until I saw this thread. Now when I go back to look for them, I can no longer find them. The half of dozen coins listed in this thread are probably just the tip of the iceberg of all the coins that have been messed with.
Comments
All typical AT... appears to have been gassed...Cheers, RickO
cert numbers do not match coins. True views with bogus cert numbers? that's a new one on me. Somebody went to a lot of trouble.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Would PCGS be willing to step in at this point? This is well beyond just gassing coins and fooling sellers. This is straight up fraud
@DonWillis Please check in to these.
The cert #'s have been removed from their database.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
Thats my guess, that PCGS has clobbered these Cert numbers.
My guess is that PCGS is starting to act on these coins, the first step being to remove them from their DB.
I've bought a few times from this seller,but all checked out on the coins I got.After seeing this I will not do business with them again
Thank You PCGS! Rooting the trash out of the streets is no easy task...keep the pressure on baby!
so how is the seller doing this?? are they doing a cut paste into the PCGS cert picture with their bogus coins, using fake slabs and cert numbers or what??
This guy has been discussed for many months here. Since ebay has no interest in doing anything about it I'm glad someone is interested. He has to be stopped from peddling this garbage.
No, the cert numbers just got removed.
Should I buy one and then REFUSE TO PAY!? When they contact me I tell them Police are on the way!
This guy is taking real coins that were certified by PCGS and than "gassing" them, inside the holder, to artificially tone them.
I think this slime ball is simply buying untoned coins in PCGS holders, gassing them and then sending them to PCGS for a re-holder and TV. I'm glad to see that PCGS is stepping up and nuking this fraud. I hope he's the next Florida coin dealer we read about going to jail...
What crap!
My YouTube Channel
Was trying to piece it together exactly what he's doing and this has to be just it. The fact that he has TV's and is claiming MS grades (even tho he doesn't image the holders for some reason) and not details grades makes your story make the most sense since those would never straight grade in a normal submission.
It looks like PCGS is going back and reviewing all the cert# that they gave this guy recently and nuking them.
Here are some completed auctions where the cert# is no longer valid.
I don't think they were in actual 'Secure' holders, they look like older cert numbers.
I think his scam like @jtlee321 said, was to gas in holder and them resubmit for re-holder and Trueview.
I would guess there might be many new owners that will end up with coins in invalid cert# holders.
I'm glad to see that PCGS is trying to do the right thing and maybe all re-holders will have to go under some kind of review process to prevent others from trying to do the same thing.
I think thanks should go to the OP and all previous posters that posted images from this seller pointing out the problem
PCGS has some clout with eBay. They've worked closely together before.
IMO PCGS should persuade eBay to require a cert# on its listing of a PCGS coin, and run a verification script to check out the cert before accepting the listing.
It wouldn't be hard to implement, would be transparent to sellers, and would reinforce the actions PCGS appears to be taking by killing certs of tampered-with coins.
Lance.
Not to be critical......but....
The next step is to re-train the re-holdering and photographic staff to catch these before they get re-holdered. They don't need to become experts....but should know enough to seek out the experts if something "funny" comes back for TrueViews. Maybe just have one of the graders quickly flip through whatever stack of coins is set for re-holdering.....
My first reaction to Tommy's suggestion was "impractical" due to the volume and the wide variety of toning in many series.
But on second thought, why couldn't a pro quickly look through the much smaller subset of coins submitted just for reholdering and True Views...ones graders would normally not see?
Lance.
I wonder how many cease and desist orders have been sent to this seller. I'm glad PCGS has finally started to do something...
I was looking through the all the recent Trueview images on the Coinfacts page last week and remember seeing around 100 images in a row that had this same kind of toning but didn't make the connection until I saw this thread. Now when I go back to look for them, I can no longer find them. The half of dozen coins listed in this thread are probably just the tip of the iceberg of all the coins that have been messed with.
Where there's a market.........the fraudsters will find a way.
The name is LEE!