MLB is a joke, competitively
garnettstyle
Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭
I stopped following MLB closely several years ago when it became clear that the league WANTS the big market teams to have winning records every year, and they want most of the small/mid market teams to have losing records. (They want the small/mid market teams to rotate being competitive, a few different small/mid market teams come up every couple of years to be competitive, only to fall off the map after 2-3 years because they won't be able to keep their own best players, and often not even their own GM's and managers!)
The Small/Mid market teams are the baseball equivalent of Jobbers in pro wrestling.
Look at the Dodgers - they've only had SIX losing seasons out of the last THIRTY! And that includes the McCourt era! The Red Sox? Only FOUR losing seasons out of the last thirty!
Almost all of the small/mid market franchises have overall losing records over the last 10 years. The Royals, who won the World Series just two years ago, have fallen back to mediocrity.
The Cubs won a World Series in part due to the work of GM Jed Hoyer. But they only got Hoyer because they STOLE him from the Padres (he was under contract in San Diego, but the Cubs offered him so much more money that the league basically told the Padres to let him go (and if they didn't he would have become and unhappy employee, bitter about losing the increased salary). So the Pads had to let him go.
And where are the Padres now? Still a horrible team with no hope of winning a World Series in the next decade. They just don't have the money to put together a legit contender. They tried two years ago, but they could only afford B level talent, and it blew up in their faces.
Meanwhile, 3 of the 4 teams in this year's Championship Series' were Major Market teams. 75%.
That doesn't happen in the NFL, or even the NBA. In those leagues if a team doesn't re-sign one of their own free agents it's because they don't want to, not because they can't. In those leagues you NEVER see one team buy out (steal) a GM or Head Coach that is still under contract to another team. That just doesn't happen. In MLB? It happens often enough that it's no big deal to those involved.
What a joke.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Comments
If its any consolation to you , the regular season games are so boring no one notices
I’m just glad the Yankees lost
I don't think I have EVER read so much BS in one post......EVER!! You are unreal man!
The Royals didn't fall back to mediocrity because the league wanted it that way, but because
our GM, who previously was making a lot of good trades and aquisitions, in my opinon got too
full of himself and forgot how he got the Royals to the upper echelon. He pretty much gave away
Wade Davis to the Cubs, let Greg Holland go because i guess he didn't want to wait a year until he
was ready to pitch again, let go a very effective DH, Kendrys Morales, for an ineffective one. Failed
to improve the starting pitching,(of course tragically losing Yordana Ventura left a big void) but Ian
Kennedy was pretty much terrible all year.
I watched many Royals games this year, and they blew a lot of leads from the middle innings on, leads
that they had locked up two and three years ago because of the stellar bullpen.
Our GM deserves much of the credit for the success of 2014 and 15, and much of the blame for
the last two years.
What's the excuse the previous 30 years before 2014?
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Let's GO DODGERS
Win is a WIN
100% AGREED
It's been 30 years since you won a WS so you are due. What a coincidence given the thread ; )
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
NFL rogues pushed me back to MLB after a 20 year absence.
Watched parts of a handful of games. Still the greatest of the 4 major team sports. Strikeout/Homerun mentality is odd. Players seemed to have the same excitement for the game as they did in the late 90's.
No way though would I ever sit through a game of over 3 hours without doing something else.. I guess MLB figures that their audience will be tinkering on the net, heating up some wings and maybe reading War and Peace during the game.
All good, I suppose.
You do realize that San Diego is the 8th largest city in the US right? If they choose not to be be competitive that's their call. There are like 10 maybe 11 legit "small market" cities in baseball so having 3 large market teams in the final four is about right math wise.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
By population.
New York #1
LA #2
Chicago #3
Houston #4
Interesting.
Says the Dodgers fan lol.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
The Pirates have not won a playoff series since the 70's. Completely the opposite in hockey and football.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
the real cause of what you complain about is due to the way MLB has free agency structured, the trade deadline, September roster expansion and how the Teams deal with it. there is League-wide cooperation with those three factors when a Team is out of contention come late in the season. this year that allowed the Yankees to almost get to the WS, and it has allowed the Astros. without other Teams "cooperating" via the trade deadline and free agents those things don't happen.
it benefits the players and the Teams.
How do you explain the luxury tax? The big market teams pay tens of millions of luxury tax that gets divied up by the smaller market teams. It was $74M in aggregate last year divied up among 24 teams. They are supposed to go out and use that money and sign better players but most just keep that money as profits. The Yankees have paid out $325M in luxury tax over the years. The Dodgers alone paid out $43M in 2015. Tampa Bays payroll was only $67M. The Yankees are making a big effort to get under the tax next year so their bill resets to zero. Then they can go after Harper in 2019
https://usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/12/16/apnewsbreak-record-6-mlb-teams-to-pay-luxury-tax/95536006/
I saw "competitively" and "joke" and was prepared to opine about the NBA.
Carry on.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
The Pequins and Steelers have had great owners. How do explain the fact that the St Louis Cardinals are almost always good? How many winning records have they had the past 30 years? They are a similar sized market to Pittsburgh. How do you explain the Chicago Cubs in a big market almost always sucking until recently?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@garnettstyle said
Well
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Love it Mark!
The cubs have made the championship series four times since 2003. That's four times more than the Pirates. St. Louis might be an exception to the rule.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
an article in today's WSJ agrees with the OP
https://wsj.com/articles/world-series-clash-marks-the-rise-of-baseballs-superteams-1508777866
Actually it doesn't. It states that this was a very recent phenomenon rather then the parity we've seen in the past. The OP's point was this has been like this for a very long time. The article states this is very new.
The snipet:
Devotees of baseball’s data revolution describe the playoffs as a crapshoot, an unpredictable tournament where chaos reigns and the most deserving participant rarely emerges victorious.
But this year’s World Series matchup between the Los Angeles Dodgers and Houston Astros introduces a new paradigm sweeping the sport. Instead of the vast parity that defined the last decade, there exists a Grand Canyon-sized gap between the top and bottom of the standings. A few teams accumulated so much talent that they simply overpowered...
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What's a "big market" team? Are the SF Giants? If they are then so are the A's (11th biggest metro area). Giants had worst record in baseball this year and A's not much better. Cleveland is 32nd biggest metro and they were in the Series last year and should have been this year. I believe only Milwaukee is a smaller metro and they ended up second in their division right? Dallas is the 4th biggest metro and the Rangers suck, right? Phili is 7th biggest metro and not even sure they still have a team!?
I think baseball has at least tried to balance things out. No simple answers that I can see.
It's up to owners to get the players. And the teams that draft good .... do good.
Why is it Baseball's job to "EVEN" things out??!! We already have Free Agency and Salary Caps, which I hate!
GOOD GRIEF!!!
I would say it's baseball's job to even things out because if it was like the 1950's and Yankees play in just about every single World Series people might tire of it. I think parity is good.
I guess we will have to disagree. I feel that it is up to the teams to make themselves better. And I like dynasties ....... especially if it is my team.
I remember when Free Agency wrecked the Cowboys or they would have won more SB's in the 90's. And probably more if it weren't for FA and the stupid Salary Cap!!!!
** And the teams that draft good .... do good.**
if you really watch sports you would understand that the "Draft" doesn't really equate to MLB Teams getting better, at least not quickly with their own picks. typically, it takes a College player somewhere around 4-5 years to be able to play baseball competitively, in the NFL and NBA they can come out early or in their last year of College and play immediately, sometimes with a really positive effect on their Team's performance.
the two biggest ways an MLB Team improves is with their farm system and free agency/trade deadline. the Cleveland Indians totally sucked.........................until around 1989 when they totally revamped their farm system. it took a few years till things turned around but since then, with the exception of a few seasons, they have been competitive and in the playoffs.
the New York Yankees have made some changes and now their farm system is growing some nice talent. if that continues, with their past penchant for buying Teams, MLB may be in trouble.
Hal Steinbrenner is much more money bottom line then his father. He's a cheapskate. LA had a $265M payroll this year. The Yankees were under $200M. Huge difference. Tampa Bay's entire payroll was only $65M. If they have caps. they should also enforce minimums. No team should be under $100M, no team over $200M
I can get behind that
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Yankees Payroll Facts
Recently Published MLB Posts
Oct 23, 2017
Active Payroll:
$168,626,896
Disabled List:
$7,867,680
Retained:
$47,138,487
Buried Minor Salaries:
$825,689
Total Payroll:
$224,458,752
Throwing money at players for future performance is insanity. Ellsbury made $21m++ this season, Judge barely topped $550k. Now, who brought more to the game, Ellsbury or Judge? Was Ellsbury worth 39 times more than Judge? I think not.
Obviously Judge will get a huge raise in the future, but when you compare salaries vs performance, it's clear to me that the MLB pay for play system is seriously messed up.
Interestingly, the Retained data above reflects a disgusting $20m to ARod.
I suspect many teams, the Red Sox included, Price, HanRam and Sandoval, have classic wastes of money, assuming their salaries were for future performance that either didn't happen by injury, or they just mailed it in...which Sandoval did.
All this really means nada to me, but when you crunch numbers vs performance, I think players can lose the spark a bit when they know that every other Monday the Brinks truck is gonna drop a ton at their bank for 6 months.
GO ASTROS Worked so far!
There should be NO limit or cap. If you can't run with the big dogs.....stay on the porch!
CC was paid $25M this year and was the highest paid Yankee. His contract is up. ARod's $20M also comes off. Holiday won't be back with his $14M. Yankees will be under $200M next year. I think they even paid $5M towards Brian McCann on Astros this year as well.
The Dodgers are throwing $20m at Adrian Gonzalez I believe. I think another year at that too. Oh well.
Free agency opened the door. This allowed the players to seek in pay for their wares, whatever the market would bare. This allowed the richest teams to outbid the smaller market teams. Pretty simple economics. Not much different then what happens in other facets of the "system". He who has the most $ has the most "toys". Not saying it's fair,right, or constructive for the health of the league.
Yep, look at Boston. Look at the Dodgers. They hardly ever have losing seasons. They are ALWAYS in the playoff mix because they have an advantage with payroll. They NEVER have to trade away their best players because of payroll limitations. Small and even some mid market teams do.
And what a surprise! The team with the highest salary in the league wins the opening game of the World Series. I'm stunned... Eyes rolled
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
So the teams have money and maybe the league wants them to win. The red sox have squandered a huge part of their huge payroll on garbage players and they hire terrible managers to get as little as possible out of them.
Maybe my memory is bad, but haven't the Red Sox finished in last place a couple of years recently and then went on the next year to win it all? Not very consistent results for the money they are spending.
logically, any way to "win it all" is worth whatever it takes.
I don't agree. The goal isn't to win it one year and disappear. The goal is to win it many years in a row; create a dynasty. With their massive payroll, how does LA compete for Kershaw, Harper, and Machado in 2019? Houston spent their wad on Verlander at $28M for this year and the next 2 years. The Cubs look like their team will be broken up in free agency. KC is done.
db, do you think before you post??
Houston has never won the WS. it's a good bet, almost 100%, that the owners would gladly sacrifice the next few years if they could be guaranteed the WS in any year. do you really think Team owners and GM's sit back and wonder how they can win the WS and establish a dynasty?? they deal with this stuff everyday and know the realities of modern MLB. ask anyone who is "in the know" or listen to interviews, nothing is guaranteed. when you have a shot at going to the WS you go all in --- THEN --- and worry about the other stuff later.
that simple concept is at the heart of the trade-deadline-deals that moved Verlander and the free agent market. seize the day and worry about everything else later.
According to Baseball-Reference Kershaw is locked up a few more years. Plus the Dodgers just have a couple of really bad contracts (Kazmir and Adrian Gonzalez). Rich Hill is questionable long term too. Other than that a very young team with favorable contracts. Plus the farm system is well stocked. Win or lose this year Dodgers are looking good for years to come I would say. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/LAD/los-angeles-dodgers-salaries-and-contracts.shtml
The 2001 Diamondbacks disagree. I think they were still paying Randy Johnson up until a couple years back, sacrificing a decade.
Yes, I do think before I post. You are coming at this as a Cleveland fan who hasn't won in your lifetime. I think the Yankees have won 7 times in mine, maybe more. The Verlander "trade" will look bad in a few years when Houston is paying him for declining skills or he goes on the DL and needs surgery. I think the one thing I learned from Yankee mistakes is don't take on these massive long term contracts for aging stars. They say Harper wants $400M over 10 years. I don't think that he is worth that. I would low ball bid on him to jack the price up, but I wouldn't want to commit 20% of your salary to one guy who never won anything. If Tanaka wants out of his 3 yr $67M contract, let him go. Kershaw has on opt out after next year I believe.
not sure, but I think I'm talking about Houston, and I think I was talking about trade deadline deals and the type of free agency signings that effectively rent a guy for a few months and an opportunity to sign him longer. not sure how that got changed to anyone winning in my lifetime and why that would even be pertinent to the discussion, though I figure in some sort of perverted way you feel good about yourself because a Team you root for wins in the WS.
that is indeed sad.
as I said before< if Verlander helps the Astros win the WS then whatever they have to pay him will be justified. that's sort of what the Dodgers are experiencing. after coming out of League run ownership they will be ecstatc and willing to pay whatever it costs for this WS victory.
baseball fans sure are a pissy lot
Exactly. Small market teams HAVE to suck 7 out of every 10 years or so. They can't afford to keep the players that make them contenders.
Big market teams can. Big market teams are in the playoff hunt - legitimately - every single year. Small/Mid market teams are in the hunt, legitimately, maybe 2 or 3 out of every 10 years. Some teams only get good ever 15 years or so. Their fans get screwed over.
And one other thing - the league never allows underfunded owners or ownership groups to buy major market teams. Small or Mid market teams? Not enough money to run a team right? No problem as long as you can buy out the previous owner.
Jeff Moorad was initially approved by MLB to buy the Padres - ON CREDIT!!! - and he was allowed to run the team as interim owner for a year or a year and a half. But to make his payments on the loan he got to buy the team he used the team's revenues, leaving almost nothing for payroll! AND THE LEAGUE WAS OK WITH THAT!!!!!
It wasn't until the media made a stink about it a year later that the league reversed course and denied to approve the finalization of the deal, and the sale to Moorad was cancelled. After he had already run the team into the ground!
Do you think MLB would allow that with the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Dodgers or the Cubs? Not a chance in hell!!
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Not true. Verlander only has two years left on his contract and the Tigers are paying part of it. The Astros got a bargain. If they win as keets correctly stated it will be a bargain of a lifetime. They have played differently since he has arrived. Verlander probably has at least 75 more wins in him over the next 4-5 years. I think he will have Randy Johnson type stats in his "old man" years which will be pretty pretty good
FYI time will tell but the Tigers got at least one stud and future star in the trade
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I actually agree with your general premise to a point. Life's tough though. Root for your team and don't cry about the rules. Or ignore baseball and only root for college football where things are so fair... like Alabama paying Saban $11m a year!? That simply can't happen at UCLA for example. Should I cry foul? No. I root for my team and move on. At the end of the day it's just sports. It doesn't matter.
As to your point about Moorad buying the Padres. I have no knowledge of that and will assume you are right. However, is it different than when McCourt bought the Dodgers?
spotrac.com/mlb/houston-astros/justin-verlander-310/
$28M next two years then $22M in 2020 (note: A $22 million option in 2020 will vest if he finishes in the top five for Cy Young voting in 2019)
No definative mention of money transfer though some articles mention $10M from Detroit to Houston. So that does help. I didn't know that