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It gives me perverse joy to see

BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

coins on ebay, and some dealer websites, languish for months and months AFTER I make reasonable offers. Offers at, or even above most guide prices, but below what the dealer was pushing to get. For coins that are nice, but not "outstanding". Coins where the dealer, when one can find a coin's recent history, is trying to quickly flip for 30-50% and won't accept 20% profit.

Yep. They can ask anything they want. That doesn't bother me.
I also don't usually go after coins that are "1 of a kind! Super RARE!". I am after coins at a certain level, but if the tag looks better than the coin, I will pass. If the coin is worth it, I will pay up.

That all said, I usually don't remove coins from my watch list, as I want to see where/when it finally sells. Or, if on a dealer website, something may trigger my memory, I will check every few months.

Many times, it seems, they eventually sell for below what I had offered. There is always a carrying cost to coins in an inventory for sale. Oh well.

Just my guilty, perverse, pleasure I guess.

I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

Comments

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 6:05PM

    Have you ever made several offers after it has not sold? I'll lower my offer each time I bug the guy. On occasion, it works.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    Have you ever made several offers after it has not sold? I'll lower my offer each time I bug the guy. On occasion, it works.

    Yep....it does work.

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 11:18PM

    The negative emotions are always so much purer and 'unalloyed' than the positive emotions.

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It must give those dealers perverse joy to own the coin if they don't take reasonable offers. I doubt they are very worried about it.

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 7:17PM

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Respectfully, what is the point of this thread?

    I think he was sharing his experience to those that want to hear it. I think of your point as when a employee ask's his boss a question and the boss barks back and state's " stop asking stupid questions." No offense taken I hope.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 7:32PM

    @Gluggo said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Respectfully, what is the point of this thread?

    I think he was sharing his experience to those that want to hear it. I think of your point as when a employee ask's his boss a question and the boss barks back and state's " stop asking stupid questions." No offense taken I hope.

    I wasn't trying to be a grouch; I came off the wrong way. I just don't understand. When I start a thread to complain, there is usually information of public importance and may involve situations where things can actually be done. This really has neither consideration, and it left me scratching my head as to what I may have missed.

    If it makes Bochiman feel any better, something that always makes me happy is when someone would drive up the price of a coin I wanted (leaving me as the underbidder) for a flip only to find that it sells for less after trying to sell it for an inflated price for several months (maybe more than a year) later. >:)

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep, I have. I've gotten the "I have $xxxx into this and can't sell it for less than $yyyy"....again, no problems. That's their choice. I made my offer and, very seldom, come up above it. I did it recently, for a proof IHC that was toned and I liked it. I only come up because of ebay bucks though. He came down, I came up, and we met in the middle.

    @Insider2 said:
    Have you ever made several offers after it has not sold? I'll lower my offer each time I bug the guy. On occasion, it works.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopefully it does. Like I said, I don't hold it against them. Many times, I may have wrong prices in my head, but if I want to sell something, I will work to actually sell it, and not hold it. Just had to do this with a lot of my mother's estate stuff. I could have held it, and held out for what a lot of it was worth (in my view...and some others' views), but at the end of the day, I made a choice to actually work to sell it.

    If they were collectors, now, I would hope it gives them extremely perverse joy to own the coin. As for "reasonable offers", I would again state that my offers, I felt, were fair and really not THAT far off from theirs...and it a lot of cases, they ultimately sell for LESS than my original offers (just MONTHS later). So, since you are insinuating that my offers weren't "reasonable", and they experienced "perverse joy" to hold the coin and not take the offers I gave.....then what does it mean when they sell for less? And again, that's after what type of holding cost?

    To each their own ;)

    @jwitten said:
    It must give those dealers perverse joy to own the coin if they don't take reasonable offers. I doubt they are very worried about it.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you, Gluggo, and yes, that is basically it.

    In addition, I might ask to him, "Respectfully then, what is the point to many of the threads here, and why don't you comment similarly to them?" ;)

    @Gluggo said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Respectfully, what is the point of this thread?

    I think he was sharing his experience to those that want to hear it. I think of your point as when a employee ask's his boss a question and the boss barks back and state's " stop asking stupid questions." No offense taken I hope.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman said:
    Hopefully it does. Like I said, I don't hold it against them. Many times, I may have wrong prices in my head, but if I want to sell something, I will work to actually sell it, and not hold it. Just had to do this with a lot of my mother's estate stuff. I could have held it, and held out for what a lot of it was worth (in my view...and some others' views), but at the end of the day, I made a choice to actually work to sell it.

    If they were collectors, now, I would hope it gives them extremely perverse joy to own the coin. As for "reasonable offers", I would again state that my offers, I felt, were fair and really not THAT far off from theirs...and it a lot of cases, they ultimately sell for LESS than my original offers (just MONTHS later). So, since you are insinuating that my offers weren't "reasonable", and they experienced "perverse joy" to hold the coin and not take the offers I gave.....then what does it mean when they sell for less? And again, that's after what type of holding cost?

    To each their own ;)

    @jwitten said:
    It must give those dealers perverse joy to own the coin if they don't take reasonable offers. I doubt they are very worried about it.

    I think you misunderstood me. I was implying you made very reasonable offers, which they did not accept. So to me, that means they like the coin enough to not take a good offer, and instead were waiting for full offers.

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The thread isn't a complaint. Honestly, it isn't. It's an observation of multiple things (at least, to me):

    • Seller looks to have overpriced his/her coin(s) and, for once, I wasn't the "sucker"
    • I usually have found a "replacement" in a grade/appearance that pleases me, but it took longer. Oh well.
    • There have been many times, in my early collecting, that I jumped WAY TOO SOON and bought at the higher price, only to see similar/better coins, for less. Sometimes weeks later, sometimes months later, but they can be there.

    It makes ME (that's right, ME) feel better knowing that I didn't spend more just to have that coin right then! That's the "perverse joy".

    I think some are thinking I am complaining about the seller's not selling to me. Nope. I feel the sting of the pain initially, as, if I offer on the coin, I want it. If I counter the counter offer that may come, then I really did want it. However, I don't want hardly anything bad enough to spend MUCH more than I estimate it is worth (to me). So, no negative feelings about it, other than the perverse joy that it still sets, I made my offers and moved on, and knowing that I was probably right about the value (at the time).

    I'm sure no one here has ever purchased a coin, right away, and then started to see better pricing on similar and thought they screwed up. I'm probably the only one ;)

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Gluggo said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    Respectfully, what is the point of this thread?

    I think he was sharing his experience to those that want to hear it. I think of your point as when a employee ask's his boss a question and the boss barks back and state's " stop asking stupid questions." No offense taken I hope.

    I wasn't trying to be a grouch; I came off the wrong way. I just don't understand. When I start a thread to complain, there is usually information of public importance and may involve situations where things can actually be done. This really has neither consideration, and it left me scratching my head as to what I may have missed.

    If it makes Bochiman feel any better, something that always makes me happy is when someone would drive up the price of a coin I wanted (leaving me as the underbidder) for a flip only to find that it sells for less after trying to sell it for an inflated price for several months (maybe more than a year) later. >:)

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I may have misunderstood you, but, at least in some of the more recent ones, it wasn't that they "liked" the coins...they weren't collectors. Really were dealers who wanted to get in and get out...but they had, from what the exchanges with me were saying, a certain price that they "needed". I don't see how "need" lessens over time. I see how "need" to sell will grow over time, but then they make less margin on it.

    If a collector sells, as a dealer, then I can really see what you mean. But for someone treating the coins like a widget, which these particular ones have been doing (including one recently who used the ol' scare tactic of "I've got it up there for my lowest price I'll take, and if it sells, great, but I do have a coin show coming up in a couple of weeks and have a buyer for it there if it is still available"......that was ~4 months ago. That particular coin is still there.
    10 or so years ago, when I joined these forums, I would have gone for that and thought he was being truthful. Now, especially thanks to coinfacts and PCGS, I have a better understanding of some of the coins' histories out there (pricing and date of sale), as well as HA and others, and a better understanding of how many are out there around that grade, how often these are up for sale, and what some of them look like already.

    @jwitten said:

    I think you misunderstood me. I was implying you made very reasonable offers, which they did not accept. So to me, that means they like the coin enough to not take a good offer, and instead were waiting for full offers.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 9:22PM

    "In addition, I might ask to him, 'Respectfully then, what is the point to many of the threads here, and why don't you comment similarly to them?'"

    I agree wholeheartedly. Some threads just stick out.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman said:

    I'm sure no one here has ever purchased a coin, right away, and then started to see better pricing on similar and thought they screwed up. I'm probably the only one ;)

    That's why I try not to look once it's mine. I would always second guess myself.

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great communication I love it!! Gonna read all this on the Plane. Love all your posts

  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've made offers and have been told "no, it's a fair price.". Watch the coin a few weeks and the price drops to my offer and I make the purchase. Some dealers just hold out longer than others. One dealer I like working with is Northeast Numismatics. They take trades and have some reasonable prices (they leave a little meat on the bone).

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bochiman ... I agree totally... have seen this on several occasions...And, if you recall, there was a dealer (or a couple - but one in particuar) at shows in the PNW that I used to attend (and you likely still do)...that had inventory priced very high, and would not budge. Month after month, year after year, he had the same inventory. I am sure he sold a couple of things to inexperienced collectors...but for the most part, his inventory was static. Probably still is....I tried dealing with him on a couple of occasions... then stopped. Cheers, RickO

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey Rick!

    Yeah, I still go to some of the shows here, when I can. My son's activities have taken priority though, so I have missed some (it's too much fun watching him play basketball at higher levels).

    As for the dealers...yep...pretty sure I know a few you are talking about and they STILL haven't changed prices. Not even that open to negotiation, that I saw, so I stopped even stopping by (very seldom do they show anything new....same old crap)

    @ricko said:
    @Bochiman ... I agree totally... have seen this on several occasions...And, if you recall, there was a dealer (or a couple - but one in particuar) at shows in the PNW that I used to attend (and you likely still do)...that had inventory priced very high, and would not budge. Month after month, year after year, he had the same inventory. I am sure he sold a couple of things to inexperienced collectors...but for the most part, his inventory was static. Probably still is....I tried dealing with him on a couple of occasions... then stopped. Cheers, RickO

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi Ron,
    Yeah, remember 'Snidely Whiplash'?? I think he just set up at shows to get away from his wife....or she MADE him go so she could have some peace....I do not know which, but it was not to sell coins. Cheers, RickO

  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I understand the OP post quite well, as I believe all of you do as well. Aside from the snarkiness that followed, I thought it was an interesting thought . . provoking obvious responses.

    I think we all look at inventory we pass on, whether online or at the bourse, and quietly feel SOME emotion if it sits . . . . .lethargic . . . for months or years after we make an offer . . .

    Drunner

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep. He got me once, when I was first starting out and hadn't been properly "educated" yet :(
    Luckily, it was not for a lot...maybe an extra $40 (proof and mint sets that he got me to pay CW guide prices). I scaled back to just a few, as I had a feeling and wanted to step back and see.
    Never bought anything else from him after that. He got me once, for a little, but lost a potential customer of a lot more. Stupid, imho, on his part. Go for the smaller, quick, "win" and don't see the long game.

    I don't recall ever seeing his wife. Only the dudes he worked with behind the tables.

    I do wonder how long that mustache took him to do that with, daily.

    @ricko said:
    Hi Ron,
    Yeah, remember 'Snidely Whiplash'?? I think he just set up at shows to get away from his wife....or she MADE him go so she could have some peace....I do not know which, but it was not to sell coins. Cheers, RickO

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never saw his wife either.... just a theory on my part.....Yeah, that mustache took a fair amount of work... and lots of wax. Cheers, RickO

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 9,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “As for the dealers...yep...pretty sure I know a few you are talking about and they STILL haven't changed prices. Not even that open to negotiation, that I saw, so I stopped even stopping by“

    Well you’ll never get to see the fresh new stuff with that attitude! :naughty:

    Me, I insist on browsing the same tired and overpriced coins year after year after year after year after year after year after.....wait, what were we talking about?

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