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rare date vs key date - compare & contrast

KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

the 09-svdbs, 16-ds, 93-s etc are key dates, but they're not rare.

what are rare dates, but they're not key dates, if any?

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    MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭✭

    1869 Seated Quarter

    Derek

    EAC 6024
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    LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1843-o dime
    1846 dime
    just to name a couple

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Moldnut said:
    1869 Seated Quarter


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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Finding a nice 1923-S Walker is more than just a.notion.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    Beefer518Beefer518 Posts: 33 ✭✭✭

    Almost any old silver commemorative has lower mintages then the lowest mintage of regular strike coins.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The population estimate for the 1839 quarter eagle is 100 to 125 pieces. That make it pretty close to a "rare date," but when you talk about key dates in the set, the 1838-C and 1839-D always head the list. According to "Coin Facts" here are the estimated number of survivors::

    1838-C 150
    1839-P 115
    1839-C 250
    1839-D 200

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    The population estimate for the 1839 quarter eagle is 100 to 125 pieces. That make it pretty close to a "rare date," but when you talk about key dates in the set, the 1838-C and 1839-D always head the list. According to "Coin Facts" here are the estimated number of survivors::

    1838-C 150
    1839-P 115
    1839-C 250
    1839-D 200

    But are there really that many people who collect them by date and mint mark? Supply may seem low but demand may be even lower, especially for worn specimens that the trophy hunters don't want.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    1846 O Tall date Half Dollar, it's a rare coin but not a key date.

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    jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @BillJones said:
    The population estimate for the 1839 quarter eagle is 100 to 125 pieces. That make it pretty close to a "rare date," but when you talk about key dates in the set, the 1838-C and 1839-D always head the list. According to "Coin Facts" here are the estimated number of survivors::

    1838-C 150
    1839-P 115
    1839-C 250
    1839-D 200

    But are there really that many people who collect them by date and mint mark? Supply may seem low but demand may be even lower, especially for worn specimens that the trophy hunters don't want.

    Or conversely demand is much higher for the C and D obverse mint marked dates versus the P mint....same is true with the half eagle...

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1913 Liberty Nickel

    1894-S dime? Maybe.

    1804 Dollar.

    Any coin that is rare, so rare, that few people are actually trying to put them into their sets. That's at least one way to look at it.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Finding a nice 1923-S Walker is more than just a.notion.
    Many series contain 'conditional' rarities, which this would be an example of.
    Not sure if the OP was including these, or was talking about absolute rarities, in any grade.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 8:23AM

    @Walkerfan said:
    Finding a nice 1923-S Walker is more than just a.notion.

    Circ or uncirc or either one?

    There was this one on Heritage a few months back that I regret not stretching for. Has that perfect circulated look.

    This one went for a BIG premium on eBay.

    Another decent one on eBay.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,988 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    Finding a nice 1923-S Walker is more than just a.notion.
    Many series contain 'conditional' rarities, which this would be an example of.
    Not sure if the OP was including these, or was talking about absolute rarities, in any grade.

    The 17-S reverse Walker is plentiful in circ condition, but very few are worth owning or grading IMO.

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,988 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    1913 Liberty Nickel

    1894-S dime? Maybe.

    1804 Dollar.

    Any coin that is rare, so rare, that few people are actually trying to put them into their sets. That's at least one way to look at it.

    How many would care to even start a set that they will never complete?

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 8:26AM

    @291fifth said:

    @BillJones said:
    The population estimate for the 1839 quarter eagle is 100 to 125 pieces. That make it pretty close to a "rare date," but when you talk about key dates in the set, the 1838-C and 1839-D always head the list. According to "Coin Facts" here are the estimated number of survivors::

    1838-C 150
    1839-P 115
    1839-C 250
    1839-D 200

    But are there really that many people who collect them by date and mint mark? Supply may seem low but demand may be even lower, especially for worn specimens that the trophy hunters don't want.

    Given the amount of trouble I've had in finishing this set, the high auction prices and the speed at which they disappear from Doug Winter's site, I'd say that there are more collectors than you might think. You only need 20 to 25 collectors who looking for nice ones (UNCLEANED AU and MS) to drive this market given the supply of the scarcest dates. I think that interest in these coins has grown over the past decade.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 8:57AM

    How many would care to even start a set that they will never complete?

    Go to PCGS set registry and check out pioneer gold section (private issues and territorial gold), you can see almost no category ever got finished except mini-type sets including all the big time collectors that no one could do it. Folks are still working on these sets and I believe they all know this is mission impossible. May be much fun is there :wink:

    https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/u-s-coins/private-issues-territorial-gold/24

    When no pressure to complete a set or to fill the last hole, collecting strategy and hunting skill could be very different. That's another fun of collecting.

    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
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    RexfordRexford Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D @BAJJERFAN The 1923-S is not considered a key date but is rare In all grades from XF through Mint state. These coins are Actually more Plentiful in Mint state. Finding one with nice eye appeal just makes it much more difficult.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,988 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerfan said:
    @Walkerguy21D @BAJJERFAN The 1923-S is not considered a key date but is rare In all grades from XF through Mint state. These coins are Actually more Plentiful in Mint state. Finding one with nice eye appeal just makes it much more difficult.

    Agreed.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep.....and like I said, I don't know if the OP was including conditional rarities or not....there are many, many examples of conditional rarities, and a lot of these would be scarcer than a given key date in the absolute sense.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Besides being conditionally scarce; I think that the 1923-S is rare in just an absolute sense, as well.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanLord said:
    1843-o dime
    1846 dime
    just to name a couple

    I had both of those. :(

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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1900-O Dime.

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    CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For me, the best way to consider "rare" versus "key" date is this -- Key dates are the rarer/rarest dates (but not necessarily "rare" in terms of actual numbers extant), within a popular series. Lincoln cents, Merc dimes, WL halfdollars all have key dates which aren't really rare. Rare dates are those whereas the actual surviving numbers are less than 100, perhaps 150 or so, in total.

    Got Crust....y gold?
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    ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jcping said:

    How many would care to even start a set that they will never complete?

    Go to PCGS set registry and check out pioneer gold section (private issues and territorial gold), you can see almost no category ever got finished except mini-type sets including all the big time collectors that no one could do it. Folks are still working on these sets and I believe they all know this is mission impossible. May be much fun is there :wink:

    https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/u-s-coins/private-issues-territorial-gold/24

    When no pressure to complete a set or to fill the last hole, collecting strategy and hunting skill could be very different. That's another fun of collecting.

    It's all about the chase!

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

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    spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Almost anything with a 'D' mintmark that was struck before 1862 is rare. In fact, combine all D mintmark coins extant of that era and they are still short in total number to a single key date from many younger series..........

    Best, SH


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
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    spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is very rare, 60 or so extant:


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 3:26PM

    @jcping said:

    How many would care to even start a set that they will never complete?

    Go to PCGS set registry and check out pioneer gold section (private issues and territorial gold), you can see almost no category ever got finished except mini-type sets including all the big time collectors that no one could do it. Folks are still working on these sets and I believe they all know this is mission impossible. May be much fun is there :wink:

    https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/u-s-coins/private-issues-territorial-gold/24

    When no pressure to complete a set or to fill the last hole, collecting strategy and hunting skill could be very different. That's another fun of collecting.

    For me it would be frustrating to try to build a set that has coins that are unattainable due to mintage, cost, etc.

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    OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 4:10PM

    @KollectorKing said:
    the 09-svdbs, 16-ds, 93-s etc are key dates, but they're not rare.

    what are rare dates, but they're not key dates, if any?

    The 1866 $2.50 is a rare date but not a key date. Surviving population is estimated at 40 and PCGS so far has slabbed 32 in all grades.

    Its obscurity is no surprise since it is part of a long thinly collected series. It is overshadowed by the stoppers (1841, 1854-S, 1864 and 1865) along with popular key dates with larger PCGS populations (1848 CAL., 1856-D and 1875).

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    oldgoldloveroldgoldlover Posts: 429 ✭✭✭

    Old coins that are heavily collected that have a pop of less than 100 in all grades, especially gold.

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