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European Bank Crisis Gold

KccoinKccoin Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

I have read hints of Our gold coming back to the states in quantities, and have yet to see it in fact. Yesterday, I stumbled upon two listings on eBay, and one other on a dealer's website

http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2332490.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XPcgs+bank.TRS0&_nkw=Pcgs+bank+crisis

Does anyone know what the story is with our host grading coins with the European Bank Crisis label?

The two coins currently listed on eBay look like nice collectible coins. I am thinking if these are the rumored coins that will be hitting the market, it may be a good time in the near future to grab some circle type gold.

Comments

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's not a rumor that huge quantities of US gold coins are coming in from Europe.
    I get daily emails offering hundreds of coins every week.

  • GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What kind of coins ? Is it effecting census for dates at the high end ?

  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am going to use those millions of dollars that a lawyer in Nigeria is going to send me (after I text him my bank account information) to buy a bunch of US Gold coming back from Europe.

    That lawyer is such a nice guy.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where's the "wiener" label?

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There was a situation called the "European Banking Crisis" in 2016. I suspect that somebody with some ordinary gold to sell asked our hosts to print a special label so they could telemarket said gold and our hosts complied.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gazes said:
    What kind of coins ? Is it effecting census for dates at the high end ?

    Well, on the 12th I was offered 3 complete sets of Indian quarter Eagles. 2 in 62 and one in 64.
    I'm kinda doubting it will affect censuseses (censii ? :D ) but the offerings are coming fast and furious.
    On the 16th it was 200 MS 64 Saints.
    On the 13th it was 100 MS 63 1907 No Motto $10 Indians.

    You decide.

    Me, I'm seeing quantities that ...to me.. are pretty heavy.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The quantities quoted are ordinary and unexceptional. Nothing but another cheap marketing scheme to separate rubes from their money.

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am sure when the Nazi's took Europe that they did not touch any US gold coins, so that 70 years later, they could be repatriated to US. The bank vaults, safe deposit boxes, etc were strictly off limits to them at all times.

    England was destitute of hard currency, Spain a basket case after their civil war, Portugal and Ireland (never a world gold power house) leaving only Switzerland and Sweden, effectively as any country that did not have Germans stripping the country left.

    Get out the yellow crayon and color me jaundiced about all this gold "hiding" in European banks.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Marketing hype.... Define 'crisis'...explain 'European'... Do you see the financial markets panicking? Lengthy media segments on an impending European crash? Cheers, RickO

  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    'As I heard it, the banks were put under new laws that they can know longer hold gold COINS as part of their "reserves" or "deposits" as part of their total listing assets and must instead be holding gold BARS. This is forcing all these European bank who for years just held bags and bags of US gold coins to sell off all the coins and replace them with bars. While the "numismatic value" associated with these coins adds millions to their total holdings value wise-and while dumping only drops the premium, the bigger pictures of banks that do billions and trillions of business, these couple of million in premiums is really not a big concern for them.

    Therefor, in order to comply with these new Bar vs coins rules. They have spent the last year or 2 just dumping.

    In theory this could also mean that if all this gold from Europe does somehow find non bank buyers and does get absorbed that should raise the premiums again

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why are they not just melting the coins into bars?? Cheers, RickO

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:
    I am sure when the Nazi's took Europe that they did not touch any US gold coins, so that 70 years later, they could be repatriated to US. The bank vaults, safe deposit boxes, etc were strictly off limits to them at all times.

    Assuming mustabgmanbob's comments were not sarcastic, the following might be informative.

    The Tripartite Gold Commission has issued detailed reports of looted gold. In a forthcoming book on Saint-Gaudens double eagles, US looted and recovered gold is discussed by owners, locations and amounts.

    "This section identifies United States gold coins that were recovered from German control after the end of World War II. In several instances we have been able to assign quantities and denominations (although not types or dates/mints) to specific central banks. While most of the coins came from the Kaiseroda mine located near Merkers, Germany, others were found elsewhere in Germany and occupied territories."

    Here are totals of U.S. gold coins recovered from all sources following WW-II except Switzerland.

    Further, regarding the statement: "The bank vaults, safe deposit boxes, etc were strictly off limits to them at all times. "

    This is false. Recovered loot included coin collections, individual hoards, private holdings from banks and safe deposit boxes, and quantities taken from enslaved populations. German officials coerced bankers into signing orders to deliver gold to Germany in exchange for reichmark credits. These orders also gave control over bank vaults to the Germans who looted everything of value.

    Lastly, don't assume any gold that came from Europe after the war was there during the war.

    "An unexplored area of foreign accumulation of U.S. gold coins is Mexico from 1931 through World War II. Scattered anecdotes propose Mexico as a source of considerable gold coin sent to Europe following the war. For example, an Office of Strategic Services memorandum dated October 14, 1946 states, “Large quantities of gold are still reaching France from Mexico via Tangiers and Portugal.” At that time U.S. double eagles were selling for 23,300 francs on the Paris black market. With a U.S. paper dollar valued at 305 francs ($0.003279 per franc) each double eagle cost the equivalent of $76.39 or nearly twice the Swiss rate of the same time. With a largely open and unmonitored border between the U.S. and Mexico in the 1930s and 1940s, it is possible that a large part of the gold repatriated from Europe actually was sent to Mexico during the interwar period."

  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Why are they not just melting the coins into bars?? Cheers, RickO

    Because they can sell it to the US coin dealers for spot +x as appose to melting it down and getting only spot value.

    They still make more money by selling for numismatic premiums. They only loose out by dispersing over a long time and keeping the premiums higher.

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • panexpoguypanexpoguy Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:
    I am sure when the Nazi's took Europe that they did not touch any US gold coins, so that 70 years later, they could be repatriated to US. The bank vaults, safe deposit boxes, etc were strictly off limits to them at all times.

    England was destitute of hard currency, Spain a basket case after their civil war, Portugal and Ireland (never a world gold power house) leaving only Switzerland and Sweden, effectively as any country that did not have Germans stripping the country left.

    Get out the yellow crayon and color me jaundiced about all this gold "hiding" in European banks.

    I agree with your perspective in many ways. However, it is quite possible that many stolen gold reserves in the form of coinage was spent by the Germans through the Swiss to pay for goods and services during the war. If these piled up during the war, the gold may have been sent back to formerly occupied countries as they rebuilt gold reserves through the Swiss. Just a thought.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joebb21 ....Of course that makes sense, and I considered it....just did not think the banks would find it worthwhile to employ numismatists to sort/value the coins. Cheers, RickO

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joebb21 said:
    'As I heard it, the banks were put under new laws that they can know longer hold gold COINS as part of their "reserves" or "deposits" as part of their total listing assets and must instead be holding gold BARS. This is forcing all these European bank who for years just held bags and bags of US gold coins to sell off all the coins and replace them with bars. While the "numismatic value" associated with these coins adds millions to their total holdings value wise-and while dumping only drops the premium, the bigger pictures of banks that do billions and trillions of business, these couple of million in premiums is really not a big concern for them.

    Therefor, in order to comply with these new Bar vs coins rules. They have spent the last year or 2 just dumping.

    In theory this could also mean that if all this gold from Europe does somehow find non bank buyers and does get absorbed that should raise the premiums again

    Can't find anything online regarding such "new laws." Can anybody provide a link to any such laws?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A good book on the subject of Nazis and European gold is:
    Chasing Gold: The Incredible Story of How the Nazis Stole Europe's Bullion by George M. Taber, Published in 2014 by Pegasus Books

    There are lots of mentions of gold coins, old and recent.

    :)

    https://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies
    Coins on Television

  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @joebb21 said:
    'As I heard it, the banks were put under new laws that they can know longer hold gold COINS as part of their "reserves" or "deposits" as part of their total listing assets and must instead be holding gold BARS. This is forcing all these European bank who for years just held bags and bags of US gold coins to sell off all the coins and replace them with bars. While the "numismatic value" associated with these coins adds millions to their total holdings value wise-and while dumping only drops the premium, the bigger pictures of banks that do billions and trillions of business, these couple of million in premiums is really not a big concern for them.

    Therefor, in order to comply with these new Bar vs coins rules. They have spent the last year or 2 just dumping.

    In theory this could also mean that if all this gold from Europe does somehow find non bank buyers and does get absorbed that should raise the premiums again

    Can't find anything online regarding such "new laws." Can anybody provide a link to any such laws?

    This is what I was told and never looked further into it. Hopefully someone can actually find something that confirms this.

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,068 ✭✭✭✭✭

    American banks failed every few decades until Glass-Steagall, when that was undone in '99 we had that crisis again. Europe had their own failures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1847

  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB , What is the title of the upcoming book that you referred to in your following post that I’ve excerpted & highlighted?

    @RogerB said:

    The Tripartite Gold Commission has issued detailed reports of looted gold. In a forthcoming book on Saint-Gaudens double eagles, US looted and recovered gold is discussed by owners, locations and amounts.

    "This section identifies United States gold coins that were recovered from German control after the end of World War II. In several instances we have been able to assign quantities and denominations (although not types or dates/mints) to specific central banks. While most of the coins came from the Kaiseroda mine located near Merkers, Germany, others were found elsewhere in Germany and occupied territories."

    Here are totals of U.S. gold coins recovered from all sources following WW-II except Switzerland.


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm embarrassed to admit that the book is ready -- except for the title. We have to discuss that - it's also the easiest part to change until the printer goes to work. :)

  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB , Will your forthcoming Saint Gaudens Double Eagle book be in the Whitman Redbook series like A Guide Book of Peace Dollars, or in another coffee table book format?


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 5:13PM

    It will be a "coffee table" book.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    American banks failed every few decades until Glass-Steagall, when that was undone in '99 we had that crisis again. Europe had their own failures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1847

    An average of 500 banks failed every year from the 1860s through mid-1920s. Closer to 1929 and thereafter until FDR and Congress acted, the average was about 1,500 per year. There was no deposit insurance, and most small depositors lost everything.

    Banking regulations were very effective in curbing speculation, self-dealing and poor bank operations. When those were relaxed, abuses increased and eventually led to yet another depression. (The 2007 depression was preceded by the S&L crisis which also was based on speculative activity by S&Ls.)

    Will - or can - public officials and politicians ever learn from history?

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,068 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I meant there was a banking crisis and economic depression periodically. I haven't sorted out who were the good and bad guys throughout US history on banking issues.

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017 7:38PM

    @logger7 said:
    American banks failed every few decades until Glass-Steagall, when that was undone in '99 we had that crisis again. Europe had their own failures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1847

    There is a 'cottage industry' among the writers and bloggers of the financial gloom & doom industry trying to be the first to predict the next crisis - as if credit for being the first to notice would matter in the event of an actual catastrophe. This is how baloney titles like 'European Bank Crisis' germinate, although most are just non-starters.

    In the event of a financial panic, the central banks and national treasuries are supposed to pour vast credits into the system. In 1929, the big man (Benjamin Strong Jr.) at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York had just died and Andrew W. Mellon intentionally refused to allow the needed credits. Nobody at the FRB had the cajones to stand up to Mellon.

    There are certainly merits to many provision in the Glass-Steagall Act, but the Federal Reserve system has to pour out money in times of crisis. This did not much happen in 1929-30. And the system is supposed to sop up the money again after the crisis has passed (and this is where it all breaks down in the modern western democracies).

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