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WW1 Commemorative Solder - Is this really a trained soldier in a charge?

claychaserclaychaser Posts: 4,405 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 9, 2017 12:39PM in U.S. Coin Forum

The design purports to show a WW1 soldier in a charge. How many soldiers go into a charge with their finger in the trigger guard and risk an accidental discharge, potentially killing one of their own? And he looks half asleep - and in that danger, I would think anyone would be wide-eyed and on high alert!

And, militaria guys help me, the helmet looks all wrong to me.

Sure does not look like Gary Cooper or "Sargent York"!



==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades



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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That kind of pose for a WWI charge evokes an idea that the soldier is wincing in pain from being caught up in the barbed wire and will have only moments more to live before being ripped apart by machine gun fire.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where is his torso? Where does his right arm originate? Do those hands belong to that head? And yes, anyone who has ever been trained in the use of firearms knows to keep his fingers outside of the trigger guard unless ready to fire. The ignorance of the designer should automatically disqualify the design.

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We should be this picky with every coin design..

    What is this Eagle looking at? Is he bowing down to the enemy? Why is his neck so long? Why do his wings look unnaturally high? Why does he have a leg coming out of his torso?

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:
    We should be this picky with every coin design..

    What is this Eagle looking at? Is he bowing down to the enemy? Why is his neck so long? Why do his wings look unnaturally high? Why does he have a leg coming out of his torso?

    Well put but the WW1 is ugly and stupid. I think we can all agree so I see little need to quantify it in words

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2017 2:10PM

    Is the rifle correct for the period?

    And 2 eyes right of the nose

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    claychaserclaychaser Posts: 4,405 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2017 3:12PM

    Kind of looks like a M1903 Springfield and that would be right. So would an Enfield, as it took time to gear up for the M1903 .30-06, a far superior rifle IMHO.



    ==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades



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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is my entry as a "line art" rendering, showing a 1903 Springfield bolt-action rifle.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2017 3:59PM

    Well....maybe something from professional sculptors will restore some artistic values to the sketches.

    Robert Aitken. "Machine Gunner." Now at Paris Island training base.

    James Fraser. "For Humanity." Bronze medal.

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2017 6:46PM

    It isn't the sculpting and sketching.

    The restrictions that are stipulated by the Mint for mass production affect the design process.
    With these restrictions, a sculptural design simply isn't going to make it onto the finished coins.

    Look what happened to this one:


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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The ear is incorrect (my ear doc days!)
    Sling attachment is in wrong position.
    Looks like he's afraid of his rifle.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    Jackthecat1Jackthecat1 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭

    The rifle looks like the M1917 Enfield in my gun safe.

    Member ANS, ANA, GSNA, TNC



    image
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    COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I kinda like the obverse. Just wondering how much the final version will differ from the line art.

    But the Reverse? Not a fan. Although, maybe I'm missing the connection between poppies and WWI.

    "The [barbed] wire design element continues onto the reverse (tails) design, titled "Poppies in the Wire," which features abstract poppies mixed in with barbed wire."

    https://www.usmint.gov/coins/coin-medal-programs/commemorative-coins/world-war-i-centennial

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    WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, that drawing has issues. Are all soldiers former boxers? Yes, ear is wrong, eye looks like a flabby belly button. I guess it's ok to have your finger on the trigger because the bolt isn't closed. Trick shooting of a plane flying behind him? Maybe he's shot and falling down.

    Is it cliche to ask for a courageous, steel eyed, iron jawed figure pointing his weapon towards the enemy? There are probably actual photographs that would depict the required images perfectly.

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    claychaserclaychaser Posts: 4,405 ✭✭✭✭

    WildIdea points out that the bolt looks to be open! If you pull the trigger on the M1903 with the bolt open, it comes out of the gun so you can clean the barrel. In this case, it would fall to the ground leaving our solder with either a club or a pike if the bayonet was affixed to it.

    I hope the can fix the glaring technical issues with this coin!



    ==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades



    Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2017 8:54PM

    @claychaser said:
    WildIdea points out that the bolt looks to be open! If you pull the trigger on the M1903 with the bolt open, it comes out of the gun so you can clean the barrel. In this case, it would fall to the ground leaving our solder with either a club or a pike if the bayonet was affixed to it.

    I hope the can fix the glaring technical issues with this coin!

    According to the US Mint website, Leroy Transfield of Orem Utah created the designs and "now retired United States Mint Sculptor–Engraver Don Everhart sculpted both designs." . So if they really are sculpted already, there is probably no going back now. And why didn't they show the sculpts instead of the drawings ?

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    COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ah! Thanks. Now the Reverse makes good sense.

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    It isn't the sculpting and sketching.

    The restrictions that are stipulated by the Mint for mass production affect the design process.
    With these restrictions, a sculptural design simply isn't going to make it onto the finished coins.

    Look what happened to this one:


    The original is almost breathtakingly poignant.
    Wow.

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    BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the CCAC is killing coin design. There's only been a couple of commems in the past few years that I've actually liked, and the last AmLib design was terrible...

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    TwobitcollectorTwobitcollector Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh boy I can't wait to not buy this.
    The Horror

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    ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can we please just go back to all denominations being the same Seated Liberty design so we can move on with life.

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    BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    Here is my entry as a "line art" rendering, showing a 1903 Springfield bolt-action rifle.

    This is the one I like best, no contest.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow... that design is terrible, both in content and art...absolute trash. Please do not dishonor our country's sacrifices with this numismatic abortion. Cheers, RickO

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    kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Is the rifle correct for the period?

    And 2 eyes right of the nose

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Is the rifle correct for the period?

    And 2 eyes right of the nose

    That is a nose, right?! Because it looks like a.. umm

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
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    CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We all knew Dans design would be much better than whatever they chose. But this? Really?? Who thought using John Wayne meets Rocky Marciano for the facial features of the bust would be a good thing? And is that flowers and barb wire really the reverse?? O_M_G. Someone is smoking those poppies if they thought this was going to be a good design.

    I really like that Fraser humaity medal design!

    The more you VAM..
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    BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017 1:38PM

    So the mint released the images of the silver medals:

    United States Mint Announces Designs for World War I Centennial Silver Medals

    Each medal will be done in 90% silver, on a 1.5" (38.1mm) blank. (Larger than a half, smaller than an ASE.) Each will be struck at a different mint, and will carry a mintmark.

    Each medal will be paired with the WWI commem and will not be available separately. (That sucks. If you want the five medal set, you're going to have to buy 5 WWI commems.

    Quite frankly, some of the medals look better than the coin.

    Army (struck at West Point):

    Marine Corps (struck at San Fran):

    Navy (struck at Philly):

    Air Service (struck at Denver):

    Coast Guard (struck at Philly):

    Of course, no mention of mintage or price. Those will be released closer to 2018...

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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Several of those look promising.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, just an opinion, but every sketch posted seems to be awful. There are spots here and there that show promise. None of these are worthy of cutting dies.

    [When on the CCAC, we came across similar situations, and sent everything back or approved nothing. Much of the artistic problem is that the Mint still has failed to hire an Artistic Director, as recommended by the CCAC comprehensive report of 2011. Artistic judgements are presently being made by marketing, liaison, and similar staff. Plus the sculptor/engravers have no creative manager with whom to discuss and refine designs.]

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