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Girardi CHOKES and Yankees go down
MCMLVTopps
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in Sports Talk
Like crickets here about the CRUSHING Yankees loss last night. Big clue to Girardi...you are entitled to two challenges, the ball never hit the batter and YOU allowed the bases to become loaded, then your inept decision making cost your team 4 runs. When you make dumb decisions, you face the consequences, Girardi single-handedly may well have cost the Yankees the season.
You now have to endure a disastrous and undoubtedly painful loss to the Indians in the Bronx. You, and whoever advised you not to challenge, should be fired. The Indians are the better team and I suspect will make it to the big dance...YOU will be on vacation somewhere.
GO INDIANS Congrats Indians team and especially Tito Francona!!
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why so angry bro? The Indians are the better team. It's a shame the decision cost the Yanks what would have been a huge upset
Not angry at all....how did you interpret my post that way? Interesting that you, the AVID Yankee's fan posted nothing.
It is what it is...inept managing, poor decision making. Yankee stadium should be filled with boos when Girardi shows up.
I was posting in the MLB predictions thread. I thought it was a bad call to not challenge. It thought it was a bad call to take out Sabathia, leave in Green so long, and leave in D Rob so long.
The playoff Gods got even for the Jeter/Mayer ball
Tough beat for the Yankee faithful (of which I'm not)...been a Red Sox fan since eternity.
You can goof those decisions in May, June, July, etc...but when it's 3 out of 5, you better be on your A-game, clearly Girardi was asleep at the wheel and the Yankee fans should boo him without mercy.
I, BTW, was watching a couple of episodes of Bosch on Amazon Prime. Great series, if you have A-Prime, check it out. It's an LAPD detective/crime thing very well done, IMO.
I doubt if there was enough evidence to overturn the call anyway. I loved the result regardless. We need a Diamondbacks/ Indians world series to show how stupid the Red Sox were in letting those 2 managers get away.
I watched the post-game interview with Girardi, he wasn't upset, didn't make excuses and explained things clearly --- they didn't have a chance to view film which would have clearly overturned the on-field call until after the allotted time had passed.
I didn't see it in real time, only two views in replay. the first in slow motion from behind the pitcher showed that the ball probably touched Chisenhall's batting glove and then the knob of the bat. the second in slow motion from down the 3rd baseline seemed to show the ball hitting the knob of the bat. together they looked inconclusive.
here's the thing: the Yankees are probably the best in MLB at using this technology so it isn't fair to criticize them when they don't get it right, or better still, when the call on the field cannot conclusively be over-turned. also, to get upset because of one play in a game with a multitude of questionable ball/strike calls isn't logical.
such is the price if we want to remove the human factor and control the game with technology.
two point I'd like to make:
1.) I have said here in the past that I don't think Girardi is a very good manager, but I don't think this was a bad move by him.
2.) the media and fans are all over this, saying it would have resulted in Chisenhall being called out. I have seen enough games and calls that were reviewed to know that it is never that clear.
What if.....the Yanks come back and win 3 straight?
he was briefly possessed by the spirit of John Farrell
It may not have changed the call, but that is the type of play I'd like to give the ump a second look at...if the initial call is not in my favor. If it changes, great. If not, I did what I could.
He still would've had another challenge if needed.
But Cleveland is hauling some serious mojo right now. It may not have mattered. They might've still found a way to win.
The ball never touched Chisenhall
You need to challenge regardless even if there is not enough to overturn the call. It's a crime not to challenge. What are you saving them for? Stupid actually
I don't feel sorry for the Yankees fans and organization. I do feel bad for the current 25 Yankees
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
FACT It's the 6th inning of a playoff game, where 3 wins takes home the turkey. There are 2 opposing players on the bases, there are 2 outs and 2 strikes on the batter. The score is 8-3 in favor of the Yankees...a substantial lead given the stage of the game.
Your catcher, Sanchez is all but on his knees begging Girardi to ask for a review of the play...his call falls on deaf ears. This from the guy who was less than 2 feet from the play. Sanchez catches the micro foul tip and the umpire could have called strke 3, inning ovah. Instead, the batter is walked, under the decision by the home plate umpire that he was hit by the pitch.
We now have the bases loaded, what could possibly go wrong...a grand slam!! Score now 8-7 Yankees.
I too watched the replay in slo-mo, looks to me like the ball nicked the bat and into Sanchez's glove.
So, Girardi makes a faux plea to the umpires in the 10th inning, appearing to be "managerial" and into the game, when, IMO, he is simply trying to look like he had to do something to save face...to no avail. Girardi should have kicked some dirt on the umpires and gotten tossed, that would have given him a chance to lick his wounds in the locker room, with someone perhaps more knowledgeable of strategic baseball play in charge, if only for an inning or two.
The inept play of the Yankees is omitted, although it impacted the game, Girardi is the goat in this fiasco. Two errors at 3rd as I recall and a bad play in center field.
In the post game interview, Girardi claims "they tell me we have 30 seconds"...you KNOW you have 30 seconds, or before the next play begins to appeal, you're the manager, you KNOW the rules!! Actually, within the first 10 seconds, the manager, and ONLY the manager must indicate to the umpires that he is considering asking for a review. Girardi claims he ran out of time, and the "slo-mo" pics only came available well after a minute. Really Joe? Does anybody think the New York Yankees franchise do not posses the most sophisticated camera equipment to use for this very purpose? I think not. Then Joe does the dance..."I think like a catcher", "I didn't want my pitcher to get out of his rhythm". ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? THEE MOST IMPORTANT GAME OF THE SEASON and Joe is worried about rhythm?? What harm would it have done to utilize your challenge? Joe, it was the 6th inning!! So, to use Girardi's logic, one should never use the challenge as it upsets the rhythm of his pitcher. Damn the rhythm Joe, the entire season is on the line, are you gonna tell me a professional baseball pitcher can't handle a few minute delay? What about rain delays, or long innings in the dugout? LAME Joe, and bushleague at best.
The economic impact to the Yankee organization, the players, the support staff and concessionaires can easily be tolled well into many millions of dollars in lost sales and potential playoff, WS money. The Cubs split up 30 million last year.
I would have had more respect for Girardi if he had simply said "I blew it", "We'll do our best to recover". Girardi's decision to not utilize his appeal will forever go down in Yankee history, much like the Aaron Boone, Bucky Dent homers and the Bill Buckner nightmare at first base.
I'll bet you could hear a mouse fart on that ride back to NY.
GO INDIANS!!
You don't even have to think twice about challenging that. None
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Joe Girardi’s ineptitude and arrogance prove costly for Yankees by Jeff Passan
With every word about an egregious mistake he refused to own, Joe Girardi twisted deeper the knife he had plunged into the New York Yankees’ postseason life. It is one thing to be a manager who so believes in his instinct that he ignores the cardinal rule of the job – trust your players – and in the process exposes his own fallibility. It’s something different altogether to explain it away in a fusillade of fallacies that bared his flaws and insecurities even more.
In the aftermath of Cleveland’s rollicking 9-8 victory in 13 innings over the Yankees that handed the Indians a 2-0 lead in the best-of-five American League Division Series, Girardi endeavored to defend the indefensible – and painted himself as laughably inept, stubbornly arrogant or perhaps both, enough so that the Instagram account of his closer liked a comment that called Girardi “a complete imbecile.”
New York Yankees manager Joe Girardi cost his team a win in Game 2 of the ALDS against the Cleveland Indians.
The game situation revealed the folly of Girardi’s decision. The Yankees led 8-3 in the sixth inning after chasing AL Cy Young favorite Corey Kluber in the third. With two on, two out and two strikes against Cleveland left fielder Lonnie Chisenhall, Yankees reliever Chad Green pumped a 96-mph fastball inside. It grazed something before landing in catcher Gary Sanchez’s glove. Umpire Dan Iassogna thought it was Chisenhall’s hand and awarded him first base. Sanchez immediately pointed to Girardi, certain the ball hit Chisenhall’s bat for a foul-tip third strike.
Slo-mo replay proved Sanchez correct. Only Girardi, who two months ago made a public show of criticizing Sanchez’s bona fides behind the plate, didn’t heed the word of the player crouching a foot from Chisenhall. He waited for guidance from his replay team. It did not come within the 30 seconds to call for a replay challenge, Girardi said, so he passed on the opportunity. Two pitches later, Francisco Lindor walloped a game-changing grand slam off the right-field foul pole. Two innings later, Jay Bruce hit a game-tying home run. In the 13th, Yan Gomes yanked the 10th pitch of his at-bat against Dellin Betances down the third-base line to score Austin Jackson and train the focus back on Girardi, exactly where it belongs.
Where to begin with the bungling? First, the impetus behind the decision itself. It’s important to understand that managing a major league team is exceedingly difficult – that managers must make by-the-minute snap decisions. Now in his 10th year managing the Yankees, Girardi surely understands the dynamics of the game that play into each one. In this case, he was one out away from the seventh inning. Starting in the eighth, umpires have the discretion to call for challenges. Pocketing both of his challenges for one inning is conservatism run amok. Girardi had almost nothing to lose by challenging. If replay officials confirmed the call, Chisenhall would be in exactly the same place he would’ve been otherwise. If it was overturned, it’s 8-3 and Lindor is leading off the seventh.
Girardi’s explanation was … well, watch him bury himself with his own words.
“Being a catcher,” Girardi said, “my thought is I never want to break a pitcher’s rhythm. That’s how I think about it.”
Being a catcher. That ineffably damning clause really is paramount. That is Joe Girardi, New York Yankees manager, saying he knows best and anyone else can kick rocks. That is Joe Girardi literally appealing to authority – himself. That is Joe Girardi saying the moment that allowed the Indians to register the greatest come-from-behind postseason victory in franchise history exists explicitly because he’s the expert. That is Joe Girardi, the emperor, disrobing himself.
And the rhythm hokum. Girardi is so concerned about disrupting a pitcher’s rhythm that more than half of his challenges as a manager have come with a Yankees pitcher on the mound. It’s even more astonishing because when it comes to replay, no manager is as good as Girardi. Of the 128 challenges he has issued, 94 have been successful. In the four years of challenges, calls are overturned about 52 percent of the time. Girardi is over 73 percent.
Green, still in rhythm, spun a slider low and in, Lindor’s nitro zone, and watched it fly deep into the Cleveland night. Girardi’s reason for keeping Green in was particularly rich, too: “He’s had success off Lindor.” He had faced Lindor twice this year. Both at-bats ended in strikeouts, yes, but Girardi knows that a two-at-bat sample size means less than nothing. In previous years, Lindor faced Green twice and walked both times. Girardi wouldn’t dare have made the argument last year that Lindor owned Green.
Part of being an effective manager is taking responsibility for mistakes, not just because people are smart enough to see through excuses but because the temperature in a clubhouse turns arctic otherwise. As unlikely as it is that Yankees closer Aroldis Chapman liked the post that called Girardi an imbecile – a reckless social media manager is almost certainly the culprit – it nevertheless reflects Girardi’s standing. The best managers – Terry Francona in Cleveland, for example – engender respect bordering on reverence. Neither player nor social media manager would dare impugn Francona, no matter how badly he biffs a game.
Girardi’s rant about Sanchez’s defense in August displayed a manager so desperate he turned to public shaming as a motivational tactic. Being a catcher, Girardi surely understood the last thing any player needs, particularly one like Sanchez who was struggling behind the plate, is a manager confirming his inadequacies. Being a catcher, he should realize baseball problems are best solved in-house.
The worst sort of manager is the supercilious one – a man so caught up in what he knows that he can’t see the error of his ways. “There was nothing that told us that he was not hit on the pitch,” Girardi said.
Except Gary Sanchez.
All the standard criticisms of Girardi as a manager – that he’s too reliant upon his binder of facts and figures – ran up against a far more grievous offense Friday: He was too reliant on himself. The Yankees had a chance to steal home-field advantage against the 102-win Indians and lock down the series at home. Now, they need three straight wins against a team that has lost four times in its last 39 games.
Girardi’s contract is up at the end of the season, and Game 2 certainly didn’t inspire oodles of confidence that he’s the right person to shepherd the franchise into an era with wondrous talent and money to spend. One game does not a future make or break, but then one game can remind that someone in a position of power and privilege, even one a decade into his tenure, has plenty to learn.
Being a manager, Joe Girardi should know that. It’s a shame he still doesn’t.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The important thing is the Yankees LOST! YES!
This is true
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think I pretty much said the same about Girardi, but Justacomman wrote it much more elegantly and with more depth.
An enjoyable read, brilliantly written. Nice Job just!!
And, as Pitboss chimes in from New Mexico...The important thing is the Yankees LOST! YES!
Chance favors the prepared mind Louis Pasteur.
Girardi's mind was clearly NOT prepared. May the boos rain upon you in the Bronx, you burned your team alive.
doesn't help a red sox fan in any case since the sox are getting swept
At least the Yanks are putting up a fight. The Sox are rolling over like sheep led to a slaughter. They were never a good team this year yet had every lucky bounce and call go their way. they probably were an 85 win team masquerading as a 93 win team.
If I understand the rules correctly they will play in the ALCS. Also Girardi may not lose his job.
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Ralph
Probably won't happen, but we all know what Yogi always said.
The Red Sox will not do well until they get a new manager and also get out from under the last GM's stupid trades. This GM has done nothing either besides trade away all their promising young talent for a bunch of has beens.
Well he is changing his tune now. At least he is owning up to it.
Joe Girardi: “I screwed up. It’s hard. It’s a hard day for me. But I’ve got to move forward and we’ll be ready to go tomorrow.”
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
From dbtunr...
"At least the Yanks are putting up a fight. The Sox are rolling over like sheep led to a slaughter. They were never a good team this year yet had every lucky bounce and call go their way. they probably were an 85 win team masquerading as a 93 win team."
This is so typical of a poor sport Yankee fan, so lame, so cheap shot like. This is also why Red Sox fans most generally have severe disdain for Yankees anything. Thanks for not disappointing, I knew at some point you'd have to lash out and act like a little girlie-man. Classless ignorance in spades!!
I will revel in your team's loss, and I can only hope it happens in the Bronx. Look to your inept manager for your pain.
At the end of the day both NY and Boston are down 0-2 at have at the very least another game at home. Same same. Doesn't much matter on fight or how they got there. You don't get extra credit for close games
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
what a great comeback that was by the Indians.
Kimbrell, Pomeranz, and Sale has-beens?? This promising young talent dealt away for them has accomplished what??
I'd happily take Girardi as manager of the Red Sox, anyday. In fact, lets make a trade, Farrell for Girardi now. Would you want that?
Girardi did not lose that game, the pitching did. Simple. Lots of blunders in that game (including the moron who got picked off 2nd base in extra innings by a catcher on his knees), but your bullpen should be able to hold a big lead. Period.
Indians might be the best team in baseball, and win it all. Yankees are a good team, and not good enough to win it all. Same thing with the Red Sox. Highest payrolls don't guarantee titles.
Enjoy the games!
my 2 cents...I think Kimbrell, Pomeranz and Sale were great trades for the Red Sox, no issues here for me.
I would NOT trade Girardi for Farrell, not today, or next year. Why? I think Girardi was inept in game 2 and somehow got a brain freeze under pressure. Two examples...he should not have taken CC out for a bullpen pitcher, and the failure to ask for a review of the Chisenhall AB, which loaded the bases, and let to 4 runs, was uber short in the decision making process.
It is my understanding of the review process that #1, the manager, (and ONLY the manager) can request a review of a play, he has 10 seconds to indicate to the umpires that he is contemplating doing so. #2, the manager must then, within 30 seconds make a gesture, such as pointing to his ears to advise the umpires he wants the review. #3, It is my understanding of the review rule, that the manager has 2 review opportunities, and they expire in the 7th inning. The debacle happened in the 6th inning, what on earth would be the harm to ask for a review, given the incredible enormity of the game? Sadly, Girardi makes a lame attempt to justify his lack of review request, by claiming "they tell me I have 30 seconds"...he KNEW they had 30 seconds. He also goes on to say "I think like a catcher and didn't want the pitcher to get out of his rhythm"...both woefully sad excuses, especially in view of the fact that Sanchez is pleading for him to take action. There is no justification for Girardi's lack of the request. Sadly for him, the slo-mo clearly shows the ball nicked the knob of the bat, caught by Sanchez, strike 3, inning over...not what happened. Girardi risked a big inning by the Indians and he lost the gamble. While he may not have single-handedly lost the game, losing a 5 run lead in the 6th inning, was crushing and the flow of the game changed dramatically.
So, given Girardi's lack of decision making prowess under pressure, I'd pass on him as a Red Sox manager. What we need is a Dick Williams! Far too much coddling of these multi-millionaire, barely out of college athletes, who's egos and check book make many think they're bullet proof.
I could not agree more with Time4...these guys are incredibly way over paid, and I've posted about my viewpoints on this ad nauseum over the years I've been on the boards. El Sapo Gordo, aka the former 3rd baseman, cost John Henry a king's ransom to get rid of. HanRam and Price are two others who have proven to be a total disaster. Up front money does not guarantee performance, never has, never will. If you make a general comparison to the average working stiff at 40 hours per week, the math is eye-popping for what some players make per game...it is INSANITY.
I think the Red Sox have limped along all year. I've posted many times that I was pretty sure they'd not get close to where they are now...clearly, I underestimated their good fortune....however, I think the fat lady will sing today in Fenway. The team is not strong enough to compete at the level of other playoff teams and I suspect today is their Waterloo...surely they'll not win 3 in a row. Should this happen, I'll be the first to post a mea culpa.
As for the other game, I hope the Yankees get hammered in the Bronx. Nothing would delight me more than to see them go down in flames in front of their fans. Girardi will certainly hear the boo birds...he, who now says "I screwed up" Really Joe?
GO INDIANS - GOOD LUCK TITO !!
It was a good read, but justacommen didn't write it. It was a story on yahoo, I read it there and
thought it was a great read also.
It was written by Jeff Passan, who Mark did credit at the beginning of his post.
In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
My oversight, Mark did indeed credit Passan as he should. Thanks for pointing that out.
Already 1-0 Astros...and the ending begins.
Indeed.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Game 1 of a 3 game comeback???
Dimeman, this time you may be correct! LOL..
Might have to revise the thread title.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
if the yanks hang on i bet girardi gets so drunk tonight
Yogi was right again!
Yanks go down...only to get up again!
We play the Astros.
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Looks like the Indians performed the Heimlich on Girardi after all, lol..
Great comeback. The Gardner at bat was epic and illustrative on just how resilient this team was after game 2 when everyone wrote them off.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Go Yanks!
So much quotable material above.
Great guts and fight by the Yankees. Way to come back from 0-2!
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The title of this thread should change to "Indians Choke....Again"
Or Indians and Red Sox choke each other
Anything can happen in a 5 game series.
Well, the Yankees certainly bailed Girardi out, that's for sure. Great series win over a tough Indians team.