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The eBay "return" policy.

keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

The eBay return policy seems a little fuzzy to me. Perhaps someone who is an experienced seller can explain it clearly.

My questions center around a seller who specifically offers a NO RETURNS policy in their description. Can they do that?? Isn't there a PayPal return guarantee of some type?? If there is a guarantee by PayPal and eBay forces me to use that entity for payment, am I offered a return despite what the seller's listing states??

Al H.

Comments

  • TetromibiTetromibi Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They can offer returns, or they can list "no returns."

    Regardless of their statement of no returns, if the item is "significantly not as described," you can get ebay involved to force a return. I look at it like this...

    If they list returns accepted - it's generally a no questions asked return policy within whatever timeline they give

    If they list no returns - You're pretty much on your own with the purchase unless they royally screwed something up.

    Obviously buyers abuse the significantly not as described function and use it as a loophole at times. One of the risks of selling on ebay...

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Regardless of your return policy, they can always issue a charge back on their credit cards via PayPal. And credit card companies tend to side with the customer.

    eBay policy really is nothing but the reality of the situation.

    It's also why I immediately block any one with a return. Coin margins are so thin, I can't run an approval service. And bullion...you could buy it and if the market doesn't move your way in 30 days, file a return.

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No matter what, if the item is significantly not as described, it can be returned, at the seller's expense.

    Whether or not it REALLY is an SNAD, ebay has to decide.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,828 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2017 8:52AM

    Ebay has ruled that you do what they say and compliance is the rule.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,828 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2017 8:53AM

    And who buys coins on eBay, anyway? :blush:

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So it makes sense to OFFER returns on Ebay to attract more bids.... Since Ebay and or paypal will make you offer the money back anyway in which case you would be out the coin and the money...

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,829 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tetromibi said:

    Obviously buyers abuse the significantly not as described function and use it as a loophole at times. One of the risks of selling on ebay...

    @Tetromibi said:
    They can offer returns, or they can list "no returns."

    Regardless of their statement of no returns, if the item is "significantly not as described," you can get ebay involved to force a return. I look at it like this...

    If they list returns accepted - it's generally a no questions asked return policy within whatever timeline they give

    If they list no returns - You're pretty much on your own with the purchase unless they royally screwed something up.

    Obviously buyers abuse the significantly not as described function and use it as a loophole at times. One of the risks of selling on ebay...

    Many buyers use this to force seller to pay return postage. eBay should really make buyer to ask seller for return first since seller take return. There no need for buyer to file claim.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,829 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:
    No matter what, if the item is significantly not as described, it can be returned, at the seller's expense.

    Whether or not it REALLY is an SNAD, ebay has to decide.

    eBay will never say no to buyer

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:
    No matter what, if the item is significantly not as described, it can be returned, at the seller's expense.

    Whether or not it REALLY is an SNAD, ebay has to decide.

    I just ran into this and have paid the buyer's return shipping to return a PCGS slabbed coin that, in the buyer's words, didn't have the golden tone in the pictures. It's just not worth the hassle. However, I did speak with ebay and they suggested that, in the future, for a slabbed coin, I could fight it.

    Tom

  • Peace_dollar88Peace_dollar88 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ebay is definitely buyer friendly. In my experience it seems like they always side with the buyer.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peace_dollar88 said:
    Ebay is definitely buyer friendly. In my experience it seems like they always side with the buyer.

    If someone is offering no returns, there is usually a reason. I also do not buy with a no return policy. While I rarely have to use it, it has saved me a couple of times. At a coin show, once you have that coin in your hand, you are screwed!

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had a couple dumb ones recently, one was hoping the coin was really green like the pictures, the other didn't want a "tarnished" coin, pictures were clear enough for them not to buy if they didn't like what they saw, I try to not oversell stuff, you are going to have more problem customers with too much advertising or overly glowing descriptions.

    A local guy who overpromotes his certified coins was saying he was getting more returns than usual, but his daughter works hard to promote the heck out of his stuff on Facebook, etc.. People are fickle.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thebigeng said:
    So it makes sense to OFFER returns on Ebay to attract more bids.... Since Ebay and or paypal will make you offer the money back anyway in which case you would be out the coin and the money...

    That is correct. Although eBay will insist they return the coin with tracking, so eBay isn't the problem. You'll get the coin back. PayPal, on a chargeback will refund the money without necessarily requiring a return depending on what the buyer says.

    eBay is pretty good on this. I had a buyer return a stamp. Somehow, it never got to me. eBay actually paid the customer and didn't charge me because tracking showed it hadn't gotten to me.

    But, other stuff happens. I had a buyer try to clean a spot off a nickel. He took an AU Liberty nickel with a small spot and turned it into a heavily hairlined nickel with a faint spot...then returned the nickel. I didn't even fight him on it, not sure how eBay would have ruled. But I'm pretty sure you could have problems with people returning damaged coins or swapping out coins in a lot. Fortunately, while there are horror stories, these things RARELY happen.

    I ship 2500 packages a year representing as many as 4000 items including large lots. The number of returns are less than 20. The number of problems no more than 1 per year.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The buyer wins 100%. All they need to do is say the item is not as discribed and all bets are off no matter what the sellers return policy is. Guaranteed

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    I had a couple dumb ones recently, one was hoping the coin was really green like the pictures, the other didn't want a "tarnished" coin, pictures were clear enough for them not to buy if they didn't like what they saw, I try to not oversell stuff, you are going to have more problem customers with too much advertising or overly glowing descriptions.

    A local guy who overpromotes his certified coins was saying he was getting more returns than usual, but his daughter works hard to promote the heck out of his stuff on Facebook, etc.. People are fickle.

    Returns for me have jumped recently. I think this is largely because eBay has made it easier. They are pushing automatic returns and the buyer just needs to click a button now and print out a return label, normally at my expense.

    I know everyone hates the phrase, but it is a "cost of doing business". But, I have a zero tolerance policy on returns and will block people who return coins for spurious reasons.

    My favorite return story is a woman who returned a VDB cent because she AND ALL HER FRIENDS could not see the VDB. I asked her to check the stock number on the 2x2. She said it matched the listing. I said, I can see the VDB in the photo. She said, so can she, but not on the coin in hand. I thought I sent her the wrong coin until I get the dang thing back and the VDB was clearly visible without a loupe!!! Exactly the coin pictured.

    So I get the coin back, but I'm out $6 round trip shipping on a $10 coin. If she had sent it back as a change of heart at her expense, I wouldn't have blocked her. But since she went SNAD, I blocked her because she's either an idiot or using me as an approval service. Either way, I don't need that nonsense.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sorry, but I do not offer returns on 95% of my listings. I have a 100% feedback rating and will take any coin back if asked, but that is not my policy at auction. That is what it is and you should either ask questions, request more pictures or know what you are bidding on before making that bid.
    I have offered that exact same item with and without returns to see if there is a financial difference and found there was none. I've done this on generic PCGS graded Morgans and on proof and mint sets (individual and in groups). I spent a lot of time trying to see if I should offer returns and found it made absolutely no difference. Now, if someone is unhappy with my item they are happy to contact me and request a return which I always grant.
    Don't kid yourself by thinking that your item won't get the bids it deserves if you don't offer a return.
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peace_dollar88 said:
    Ebay is definitely buyer friendly. In my experience it seems like they always side with the buyer.

    This would be one reason I sent back the 10 total sets of the 225th Anniversary Enhanced Un-circulated Coin Set due to POOR Quality. After how could I in good faith accept poor quality from the Mint and then pass the poor quality to the buyer. I know I would be pissed thats why you use your past history score, hopefully you hold a 100% feedback rate. Usually everything I sell is Non-Refundable with tracking and pictures of the item inside and outside during packing. Believe it or not there are some BAD people out there. Just saying!

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG What is the strategy of offering no returns on 95 percent of your EBay listings and then accepting returns on the same coins listed on eBay if asked? Are you betting they will not ask?

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I get very few requests for additional information or pics. I provide enough pics to make a pretty good decision for the most part (indoor and outdoor lighting generally). As a strategy I just don't want people bidding without thinking first. Solves a lot of problems. When you offer no returns I think the buyers tend to look a little more closely to your pics and to read the description.
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    I'm sorry, but I do not offer returns on 95% of my listings. I have a 100% feedback rating and will take any coin back if asked, but that is not my policy at auction. That is what it is and you should either ask questions, request more pictures or know what you are bidding on before making that bid.
    I have offered that exact same item with and without returns to see if there is a financial difference and found there was none. I've done this on generic PCGS graded Morgans and on proof and mint sets (individual and in groups). I spent a lot of time trying to see if I should offer returns and found it made absolutely no difference. Now, if someone is unhappy with my item they are happy to contact me and request a return which I always grant.
    Don't kid yourself by thinking that your item won't get the bids it deserves if you don't offer a return.
    bob :)

    Why are you sorry? You have nothing to apologize for.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just sent a set of Statehood Quarter Proofs from 2008 to the Russian Federation, which sold on eBay . I'm glad someone likes our coinage. And a very happy feedback from China for the 1992 3 coin World Cup commemorative proof set.

    I was kidding about "who buys coins anyway".

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    I'm sorry, but I do not offer returns on 95% of my listings. I have a 100% feedback rating and will take any coin back if asked, but that is not my policy at auction. That is what it is and you should either ask questions, request more pictures or know what you are bidding on before making that bid.
    I have offered that exact same item with and without returns to see if there is a financial difference and found there was none. I've done this on generic PCGS graded Morgans and on proof and mint sets (individual and in groups). I spent a lot of time trying to see if I should offer returns and found it made absolutely no difference. Now, if someone is unhappy with my item they are happy to contact me and request a return which I always grant.
    Don't kid yourself by thinking that your item won't get the bids it deserves if you don't offer a return.
    bob :)

    What selling price? I for one will never look at an expensive coin without a return policy. Lots of coins I have looked at would have sold for more with me bidding, but they didn't offer a return. I am not kidding myself either! :)

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All my auctions are under $700. Anything more expensive does not go to ebay. I might agree with you on expensive coins and did not take that into consideration.......good observation.
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The seller can state no returns but eBay protects the buyer regardless.

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • ArizonaRareCoinsArizonaRareCoins Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2017 5:34PM

    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:
    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

    Yes, it is open to possible abuse. Fortunately, that abuse is rare.

    I once had a customer buy a coin, tell me he walked it through PCGS or NGC (I forget which) at a major coin show and send it back when it didn't get the grade he was hoping for.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's where charging a restocking fee comes in to play! I offer 30 day returns but charge a 10% restocking fee if the return is started 7 days after receipt.

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:
    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:
    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

    Ebay has extended the return period to 6 months. So, restocking fee on a pricey coin is not a bad idea. I paid a restocking fee of 15% a few weeks ago and was glad to return it.

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:
    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

    Yes, it is open to possible abuse. Fortunately, that abuse is rare.

    I once had a customer buy a coin, tell me he walked it through PCGS or NGC (I forget which) at a major coin show and send it back when it didn't get the grade he was hoping for.

    That is 100% steaming BS!!!!!
    I would have been pi@@ed!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mannie gray said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:
    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

    Yes, it is open to possible abuse. Fortunately, that abuse is rare.

    I once had a customer buy a coin, tell me he walked it through PCGS or NGC (I forget which) at a major coin show and send it back when it didn't get the grade he was hoping for.

    That is 100% steaming BS!!!!!
    I would have been pi@@ed!

    Believe it or not, it didn't bother me as much as people who just file a SNAD and make me pay for the round-trip shipping. He marked it "changed mind" and paid the round-trip shipping himself. So, it was a nuisance, but not costly to me.

    The problem is, someone less honest than him could buy a coin or bullion, shop it around for as long as 60 days [eBay's preferred holiday return period], then mark it SNAD and send it back leaving me with the round-trip shipping costs.

    I block anyone who issues a SNAD, just in case, and usually also report them to eBay for abuse UNLESS there is a legitimate reason that it is SNAD. After all, I do occasionally make a mistake and I'll stand behind those. But if you are sending an accurately described coin back at my expense, often weeks later...well, I just can't be bothered.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2017 5:00AM

    As unpleasant as returns are they also can send a message to sellers that they need to do a better job with their listings.

    "I once had a customer buy a coin, tell me he walked it through PCGS or NGC (I forget which) at a major coin show and send it back when it didn't get the grade he was hoping for."

    So was that a raw coin, the only explanation I can think of, it would make sense if it was a perceived "deal" that needed to get into a legitimate holder. So big deal, a buyer spends a lot of money, gets frustrated, sends it back in the same condition, the seller can relist. Maybe a restocking fee would be justified in some cases. Sellers should be compensated for their trouble in some cases; if they are calling AU coins Unc., etc, they should suffer loss.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ArizonaRareCoins said:
    I generally deal with coins in the $2000-$4000 range and MUST offer returns. Years ago, when I didn't offer returns, buyers would just file SNAD and return the coin and I would get a "strike". So, I just decided to buckle-under to eBay offer the 30 day return demand they require for their "Top-Rated Seller" discount. The problem is, I've had some buyers buy the coin, shop it around for a few weeks, and than return it. EBay needs to lower the return period to one week to stop this practice.

    Not to mention you're a nice fellow to deal with in person, too.

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