Ngc Ultra Cameo v Pcgs Deep Cameo
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So what gives here ?
Is Ultra Cameo ( Ngc ) Deeper then, Deep Cameo ( Pcgs ) ?
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The coins are the coins no matter what holder they are in. Cameo contrast varies from coin to coin based on several factors. So, the question is more along the lines of the TPG standards to make cameo and deep (ultra) cameo.
In my opinion, based on submissions done 5-10 years ago, PCGS had a tougher standard to make Deep Cameo than NGC had to make Ultra cameo. Same on the cameo end. This is why PCGS coins tend to bring more money.
Then again, a moose of an ultracam can reside in an NGC holder and deserve a higher price. (I had several, but crossed them to PCGS plastic).
Disclaimer: Standards could be different now.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Just terminology, they should be the same
BHNC #203
ATS seems to have their own terminology. They even designate coins as PL whereas, PCGS only designates Morgan Dollars, as far as I know.
I believe that they would be the same in a "grade-off"...as far as Deep vs. Ultra Cameo goes.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
It always comes down to the coin people.... judge the coin. If the terminology is important, get the coin in the slab with the word you like.... Personally, IDGAS.....
Cheers, RickO
Not so fast... I agree that most would grade the same, But I believe that there will be some NGC Ultracameos that will not Dcam at PCGS. Similarly, there are NGC cameos that won't cam at PCGS. And not vice-versa.
The standards should be the same, but they weren't for many years. Any probably are not today.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I know from what I've seen, ultra cameo sell for more then deep cameo .
Of course they both have the same grade .
The UCAM (ultra cameo) designation is NGC's equivalent designation for PCGS's DCAM designation. As for comparing the standards of NGC and PCGS, both companies have been all over the place. Historically, PCGS was tighter but I think it has more or less evened out for the newest stuff coming out of each. YMMV.
What type of coins? Do you have examples?
Ultra cameo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-S-LINCOLN-CENT-CLOSE-AM-NEAR-PERFECT-PROOF-NGC-PF69-RED-ULTRA-CAMEO-/382030131850?hash=item58f2c5328a:g:k7YAAOSwTM5Y48Gp
Deep cameo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-S-PR69RD-DCAM-Close-AM-FS-901-Lincoln-penny-Red-Ulra-Deep-Cameo-cent-/112559479128?hash=item1a35115958:g:IKsAAOSw3h1ZVIXZ
There was a time when NGC was super tough on UCAMs, especially on Franklins.
I remember buying an incredible deep frosted run of 1958's and I think I sent 20 to NGC.
These were all coins that were not only black and white but gemmy as well.
THis was when a 65CAM was a $300-$400 coin....DCAMs were outta sight.
These were the nicest 1958s I had ever seen.
They didn't even CAM 7 of them.
Subsequently I sent those 7 to PCGS where 6 CAMed and 1 DCAMed.
Currently, I think PCGS is a little tougher on both CAM and DCAM designations, but it varies widely and is all over the place.
I recently saw a DCAM 1955 Roosie at a show that had almost NO contrast on the reverse.
So, it's buyer beware as always and buy the coin as it sits and not what the paper insert says.
The two coins you linked to aren't sold; they are merely sellers fishing for buyers at their preferred price. These two data points you linked as evidence mean nothing if they are not sales.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I bought this one for 129 dollars and some change .
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3794872-014/69/
The links are active eBay listings with a seller asking price. A seller can ask anything he or she wants, that doesn't mean that the coin is worth that much. There is no shortage of overpricing on eBay regardless of plastic.
The prices are pretty much the same, and there is no statistical difference between the two services for this coin. Here are the auction records for PF69DCAM/UCAM examples:
PCGS: $217 (7/17 Heritage); $125 (4/16 eBay); $124 (4/16 eBay); $97 (4/16 eBay); $96 (4/16 ebay), AVERAGE $131.80
NGC: $165 (7/16 Heritage); $135 (6/16 Heritage); $129 (6/16 Heritage); $120 (6/16 Heritage); $114 (6/16 Heritage), AVERAGE $132.60
apples and oranges.
Thanks everybody for stopping by ....