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This is a COUNTERFEIT CHINESE 1911 10c Y#28

Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 15, 2017 8:54AM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

I believe it is common knowledge that authentication should not be done by images, especially the poor ones I provide here.

PS Larger than a U.S. dime, Silver, and the weight is OK at 2.71 grams.

In authentication class one of my instructors uses a scale like this to rate a coin:

Absolutely Fake (2)
Probably Fake (3)
Possibly Fake (4)

No Decision (5)

Possibly Good (6)
Probably OK (7)
Genuine (8)

This coin is a well made modern counterfeit! I should rate it this way as far as quality and deceptiveness. It all depends on what you know and the magnification used. To the naked eye, practically any dealer/collector would think it was genuine.

TPGS (2)
Chinese dealer/collector (2)
Knowledgeable Foreign coin dealer (4)
Rest of us (7-8)

I will post a magnified image of the surface with further comments later today.

Comments

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2017 8:19AM

    :)

  • HyperionHyperion Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭

    obv looks weird

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hyperion said: "obv looks weird."

    Great catch! Now please be more specific. What about it made you think that?

    Great catch Bill! Thanks for not spilling the beans right away!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The denticles are quite uneven

  • Details and all aside, once they manage to convincingly fake the processes that come with time, we're all doomed. It's easy to fool the science, but to fool the trained eye... scary prospect.

    Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff <3

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I 'll post a magnified image of this coin by Tuesday. In this case, the fake is not deceptive enough to fool a TPGS.

    I've only been studying counterfeits since the 1970's so I don't know what came before. I will say this for sure, even back then the counterfeiters were "aging" their products with concoctions from salt water immersion to black shoe polish! I believe that kind of thing was going on long before my parents were born!

  • HyperionHyperion Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @Hyperion said: "obv looks weird."

    Great catch! Now please be more specific. What about it made you think that?

    Great catch Bill! Thanks for not spilling the beans right away!

    Without reading other posts (I'll go back). the highest portions of the devices are flat, not sharp and it doesn't look wear, possibly from a cast? It just doesn't pass smell. Add chinese/darkside and it gets cloudy.

  • HyperionHyperion Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭

    now that I look, indeed the denticles are kind of crazy :)

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fuzzy is a great description. I learned that some long-time authenticators' us the term "fatty" to describe struck counterfeit coins with "fuzzy" or "mushy" relief. Here is the image of "fatty" relief:

  • TurboSnailTurboSnail Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2017 1:23PM

    All the Chinese characters seem thicker than normal. The strokes of the characters seem awkward to the point that I suspect engraver was from modern mainland China and used to simplified Chinese writing.

  • TurboSnailTurboSnail Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭✭✭

    While we are on the topic, I remember a funny story. Around a decade ago I knew a sculptor in Italy who hired staffs from China to handmade and mass produce his designs at much lower rate then shipped back to Italy. Everything went well and they look like products of master craftsmanship but something just didn't seem right.

    For whatever reason, all the sculptures looked Chinese even though 97% of the measurement /proportion were correct. Guess what? That angle of thin slash by the eye makes them look Asian. True story. lol

  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭

    The calligraphy looks pretty good but the denticles are indeed worrisome.

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