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So am I the only one with this DIE CLASH on the Pilgrim Commemorative Half Dollar?

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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's cool. As a VAMmer, I like seeing clashed letters like that.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,815 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2017 5:59PM

    That's as cool as the dark side of my pillow. B) I have a couple of pilgrims so now I'll have to take a look .
    Very nice indeed

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have seen it before. Do not have an example of it.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cmerlo1 said:
    That's cool. As a VAMmer, I like seeing clashed letters like that.

    You're a VAMmer too Christian? :sunglasses:

    The more you VAM..
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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just checked and no cigar. If I had one clashed like that I'm sure I'd remember it. I just looked for any other clashing I could see. None


    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭

    Are you sure it's not a dropped letter error .

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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CascadeChris said:

    @cmerlo1 said:
    That's cool. As a VAMmer, I like seeing clashed letters like that.

    You're a VAMmer too Christian? :sunglasses:

    Yep- though not as much as I used to be. I have 4 discoveries to my credit...

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool find.... I believe I only have one Pilgrim... will check, but odds against it... Cheers, RickO

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    What is a dropped letter error

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    stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭

    @Watchbelieve said:
    What is a dropped letter error

    http://coinauctionshelp.com/droppedletters.html

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    Thank you

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is at least one Pilgrim with a massive clash. I have photos somewhere but I know some member here must have one to post.

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    stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    There is at least one Pilgrim with a massive clash. I have photos somewhere but I know some member here must have one to post.

    Nothing on mad die clashes and I think we would have one there, if anywhere ..
    http://www.maddieclashes.com/

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    YESSSS. COULD I REALLY HAVE MY OWN DISCOVERY OF A UNIQUE COIN ??? I'm starting to get excited. Very excited in fact. I mean, this is why we look so closely at our coins. Endless let downs. I hope this one works out.

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    CommemDudeCommemDude Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2017 3:04AM


    Looked through all my pilgrims just now and found no die clash as you describe. I don't even recall seeing this before...nice pick up.

    Dr Mikey
    Commems and Early Type
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchbelieve said:
    YESSSS. COULD I REALLY HAVE MY OWN DISCOVERY OF A UNIQUE COIN ??? I'm starting to get excited. Very excited in fact. I mean, this is why we look so closely at our coins. Endless let downs. I hope this one works out.

    If it's a die clash, it's not exactly unique. They may have minted hundreds of them from the damage die.

    Not to aid the let down, but die clashes are a bit of a sub-specialty and not usually a significant value added. IMHO.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

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    stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

    That's not the " U " from TRUST .
    To big to be that .
    All the letters from IGWT are the same size and the " U "is way bigger then the " D " .

    There should also be clash marks on the obverse to .
    OP needs to look for more clash marks and if you don't find any, then my money is on dropped lettering ...

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    stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2017 5:03AM

    @stash said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

    That's not the " U " from TRUST .
    To big to be that .
    All the letters from IGWT are the same size and the " U "is way bigger then the " D " .

    There should also be clash marks on the obverse to .
    OP needs to look for more clash marks and if you don't find any, then my money is on dropped lettering ...

    OP send Mad Clash an email and tell them what's going on .
    http://www.maddieclashes.com/3182-2/

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Watchbelieve said:
    YESSSS. COULD I REALLY HAVE MY OWN DISCOVERY OF A UNIQUE COIN ??? I'm starting to get excited. Very excited in fact. I mean, this is why we look so closely at our coins. Endless let downs. I hope this one works out.

    If it's a die clash, it's not exactly unique. They may have minted hundreds of them from the damage die.

    Not to aid the let down, but die clashes are a bit of a sub-specialty and not usually a significant value added. IMHO.

    This.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stash said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

    That's not the " U " from TRUST .
    To big to be that .
    All the letters from IGWT are the same size and the " U "is way bigger then the " D " .

    There should also be clash marks on the obverse to .
    OP needs to look for more clash marks and if you don't find any, then my money is on dropped lettering ...

    The die clash is from IN GOD WE TRUST. You are looking at an arc of toning around the actual U die clash and thinking that that is a large U. Look at it again.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @stash said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

    That's not the " U " from TRUST .
    To big to be that .
    All the letters from IGWT are the same size and the " U "is way bigger then the " D " .

    There should also be clash marks on the obverse to .
    OP needs to look for more clash marks and if you don't find any, then my money is on dropped lettering ...

    The die clash is from IN GOD WE TRUST. You are looking at an arc of toning around the actual U die clash and thinking that that is a large U. Look at it again.

    This :)

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    stashstash Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @stash said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

    That's not the " U " from TRUST .
    To big to be that .
    All the letters from IGWT are the same size and the " U "is way bigger then the " D " .

    There should also be clash marks on the obverse to .
    OP needs to look for more clash marks and if you don't find any, then my money is on dropped lettering ...

    The die clash is from IN GOD WE TRUST. You are looking at an arc of toning around the actual U die clash and thinking that that is a large U. Look at it again.

    This is the area I'm looking at .

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thats way cool, i like :)

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2017 10:00AM

    YOU ARE SEEING THE "U" OF TRUST AND THE "D" OF "GOD." I apologize for being very frustrated as this is Basic Numismatics 101.

    OP your coin is uncommon. There are stronger clashes on these coins. The way I was taught to identify a die clash (remember upside down and backwards) is to stare at the unusual mark for a second and visualize what you see. Then turn the coin over slowly and look at the same area on the opposite side for what is in your memory of the opposite design of the coin. That way, you don't need to "finger-up " the coin while marking the spot.

    PS Again very sorry. <3

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stash said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @stash said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It does, by the way, appear to be a die clash as you can see the "D" in "God" and the "U" above it from "Trust".

    That's not the " U " from TRUST .
    To big to be that .
    All the letters from IGWT are the same size and the " U "is way bigger then the " D " .

    There should also be clash marks on the obverse to .
    OP needs to look for more clash marks and if you don't find any, then my money is on dropped lettering ...

    The die clash is from IN GOD WE TRUST. You are looking at an arc of toning around the actual U die clash and thinking that that is a large U. Look at it again.

    This is the area I'm looking at .

    That is not the "U", that is the toning around the U. Drop your arrow halfway to the ship and you'll be pointing at the "U" from "Trust". Same size as the "D" from "GOD".

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stash said: "Nothing on mad die clashes and I think we would have one there, if anywhere .."

    The web site you have posted is relatively "new" in the broad scheme of numismatics. If you go down to your local coin shop and spend a few hours looking through the junk silver and foreign coin bin you'll find half a dozen "discovery coins" not on that web sight or I'm a "monkey's uncle. I see many die clashes on a weekly basis. Seated Liberty coinage has hundreds of them not on that web site. Start sending in photos and you can become the king of "discovery coins" but several collectors can already claim that title. Brian Raines comes to mind and he has a big head start on you!

    B.J Neff has done a wonderful service for all of us. Eventually, as prices rise for common coins many of us will start looking for these things. Many die clashes are spectacular and rare right now - check out Cherrypickers.

    Your coin is neat. The die clash gives it one more reason to keep it in a collection or use it to teach others.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @stash said: "Nothing on mad die clashes and I think we would have one there, if anywhere .."

    The web site you have posted is relatively "new" in the broad scheme of numismatics. If you go down to your local coin shop and spend a few hours looking through the junk silver and foreign coin bin you'll find half a dozen "discovery coins" not on that web sight or I'm a "monkey's uncle. I see many die clashes on a weekly basis. Seated Liberty coinage has hundreds of them not on that web site. Start sending in photos and you can become the king of "discovery coins" but several collectors can already claim that title. Brian Raines comes to mind and he has a big head start on you!

    B.J Neff has done a wonderful service for all of us. Eventually, as prices rise for common coins many of us will start looking for these things. Many die clashes are spectacular and rare right now - check out Cherrypickers.

    Your coin is neat. The die clash gives it one more reason to keep it in a collection or use it to teach others.

    True!

    Sometimes, I think it's hard to find a 3 cent nickel WITHOUT a die clash.

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    Here is some more pics of the same coin. MORE CLASHING AND POSSIBLE DDR?




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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

    strike doubling, not double-die

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    WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchbelieve said:
    Here is some more pics of the same coin. MORE CLASHING AND POSSIBLE DDR?

    Yes, I agree, looks like strike doubling.

    That is definitely the hand of the pilgrim in that sail and looks like part of the arm in the sail next to it. Probably some more hidden clash that close examination would reveal considering how strong the clashes noted so far appear. Keep pointing out any more you can find.

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

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    NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭

    Yup. Strike doubling....you've shown us enough with this issue, that you should, by now, be able to identify strike doubling (that's IF you've been taking notes/paying attention...but I guess it IS easier to have others tell you what you have).

    I'll come up with something.
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    Hi NotSure. They is what appears to be notching on the lower right of the T and the M. I agree the rest appears to be shelf like doubling. That's why I pointed an arrow at the T. I'm not lazy in any way. I would think if anyone could be understanding it's a person with the name NOTSURE. lol. I enjoy doing coins but still to this day, I've never met such rude people until I joined this hobby.

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 17, 2017 5:23PM

    Clearly it is clashing (not perfectly aligned and with a very slight die rotation).
    Lance.

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    ECHOESECHOES Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkeigwin said:
    Clearly it is clashing (not perfectly aligned and with a very slight die rotation).
    Lance.

    VERY NICE PIC!

    ~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~
    POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
    Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
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    jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you have something to be thankful for this thanksgiving.

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    How did you overlap images like that? What program will allow me to do that? Great job! Well done. A++++ all the way ikeigwin

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not too hard, Watchbelieve. I took the two images of a Pilgrim I have and flipped the obverse. Then overlaid the two and adjusted opacity for transparency, so both would be visible.

    I think many editors have this capability. I'm on an iMac and I used the "Acorn" editor.
    Lance.

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    Thanks

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,334 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchbelieve said:
    How did you overlap images like that? What program will allow me to do that? Great job! Well done. A++++ all the way ikeigwin

    You can also do this in a program called paint.net, it's free, you should check it out.

    Collector, occasional seller

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