@keets said:
it is interesting to note that Otto Graham still holds the NFL record for average yds/attempt.
you are correct, I won't try to tell you that Graham is better than Brady and I won't argue that Brady is better than Graham, either. it is hard to compare, the two eras being different. I will only say that all things being equal Otto Graham was probably more dominant at his position while he was playing than Brady currently is. another record held by Graham is the highest winning percentage for a starting QB, .814.
It's like asking who made the best car with a rumble seat , means nothing to 99.99% of the people upright and breathing.
Yup but Brady's won-loss record is at .500 so the trolls have to enjoy it while they can. These type of weeks haven't happened often over the past 17 years.
erik- You and pats fans never give the defense credit for helping win the Super Bowls, so why should
the defense get the blame for the two losses this year.
I never heard one Pats fan say that the DB that made that end of game interception against Seattle
should have gotten MVP over Brady, but every non pat fan knew it was obvious he should have.
He also knocked down a pass that same drive on a great diving play. He played a great game. I don't even remember his
name, but he was MVP of that Super Bowl.
So if Brady is going to get all the credit even when he doesn't deserve it, then yes, THE TWO LOSSES
THE PATS HAVE THIS YEAR ARE ALL BRADY'S FAULT.
Darin,for one you have never seen me not give credit to any NE defense that helped win a SB. Whatever you heard/might have heard from these other Pats fans go take that up with them. Those are their comments not mine.
As for Malcolm Butler not getting MVP,i would have been absolutely fine if he got it. Or Vinatieri in the Rams or Panthers SBs. Or even White last season. After my Jordan Fleer Rc & my two Brady Topps SB MVP FB/AU's,these 3 autos are the favorite cards in my entire collection. If you meant to use the Butler argument against me,you found the wrong guy to point this out to.
I also think its hilarious that you think the defense,which has been all-time top 3 worst in NFL history after 4 games,is somehow Brady's fault. You even hinting this shows you know nothing about football and are here solely to rip Brady.
Keep trolling along buddy.
Okay, I don't know what trolling actually is, but I'll do my best.
I don't have any more posts than you or a lot of others on this thread.
And I made my point anyway. Of course I don't think Brady is solely responsible for
NE's losses this year, just as he is not solely responsible for his teams' wins.
You posting those three football cards of someone other than Brady means you actually get it.
@perkdog said:
Darin by your logic let's compare the amount of wins between Brady and everyone else then.....Brady wins that argument period, he has .772%
Perkdog, c'mon that's too easy. You realize you're saying Brady has only won roughly 3/4's of one game, right?
You should have said let's compare winning percentages.
I'm done anyway. A pat fan has actually acknowledged there are other players on the team besides Brady,
and he realizes they contribute to the teams victorys'. He may me the first of his kind.
Darin, my bad on that I certainly meant winning percentage I just didn't word it properly. Btw you sound absolutely ridiculous blabbing about pats fans not acknowledging other players and I will tell you why...The OP says Brady looks 65, HE is being argued against being the best against Joe Cool and Otto Graham so ofcourse we are going to argue and promote Brady. It goes without saying that other things come in to play when winning football games, in NE Adam Vinatieri was probably just as much loved as Brady was early on as well as Bruschi, Ty Law, Wilfork, Harrison and now Gronk. At the end of the day whether it's right or wrong the QB gets the credit and blame for wins and losses.
Darin, the google definition of trolling is: "make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them." If someone wants to tell me they think that Montana,Graham,Bradshaw,Manning or whoever are a better QB than Brady I can absolutely respect that opinion. I would just respect it more if hadn't been made just after Brady loses a week 4 game in October like that game was the deciding factor in this debate. People who troll the Patriots & their fans usually have to wait till they lose,which doesn't happen often. Neither does starting 2-2 while coming close to starting 0-3 in Foxboro. Between your timing and blaming Brady for the losses,when any NFL fan can see how atrocious their defense has been,made it look like you were trolling.
If these weren't your intentions,my apologies.
perkdog pretty much covered it from a Pats fan view but i just think you can't just assume fans won't give credit to other players,only Brady,just because these players aren't mentioned by name. As a Pats fan it was hard seeing many great Patriots players either not given a contract extension,get traded or just outright released. Lawyer Milloy,Deion Branch,David Givens,Ty Law,Adam Vinatieri,Mike Vrabel,Richard Seymour,Wes Welker,Logan Mankins,Vince Wilfork,Chandler Jones,Jamie Collins to whoever is next. Believe me when i say real Pats fans know how much all of the other players not named Tom Brady have meant to their success over the years. Many can describe in detail each players most memorable postseason/big game moments off the top of their head.
I'll just say this - Montana was great, Brady is great.
I would love to see them play against each other in a SB when both were in their prime.
I think both Montana and Brady owe much of their success to Bill Walsh and the offensive scheme he developed, the West Coast offense that there's no need to explain. Walsh developed it to suit his personnel and Montana with Jerry Rice were the perfect players to execute it. many others have tried with subtle changes and limited success, but I don't think anyone has done what Belichick and Brady have achieved with a rotation of good receivers. the two QB's used different styles to gain the same result, Montana could sprint out to the sideline and Brady has the Marino-esque quick release.
Football is a strange game. both of those QB's have really padded their numbers more as a result of the scheme and brilliant coaching than anything else. now don't get your boxers in a bunch, they are still great, but the scheme they play in really helps. how many times has each thrown a five-yard pass that resulted in a 30-40 yard gain?? it's the same thing with all the great running backs --- everyone overlooks the block at the line of scrimmage, they only see the 40 yd. Touchdown in the stats.
I agree and i honestly think that with no Montana in San Francisco we don't see this same Tom Brady every week in the NFL. Anyone that has closely followed Brady's career knows his family were 49ers season ticket holders and that Joe was his hero growing up from a young age to the point he mimicked his game after Montana's. I'm just grateful Brady ended up on the team i root. Its been one hell of a ride as a Pats fan getting to see Tom play every week.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Brady just chugging along, without Edelman and not missing a beat. I may be way off but both me and my buddy are actually starting to believe that deep down he sorta gets mad when his team scores outside of him throwing a TD pass. Brady is secretly a stat hungry QB, he wants every record to himself that is what is motivating him to keep playing at a high level. I truly am starting to believe they could win another Super Bowl this year, Houston losing Watson it now doesn’t seem like anyone else in the AFC is a real threat.
I think he wants that 6th SB ring more than anything and if he gets it he'll want to keep playing for the next one. He might end up with some of the major passing records but Brees is a year younger and still going strong too so who knows what will happen.
Bree’s by all accounts should get all the major passing records with yards and TD’s, Brady missing a full year from injury and starting almost a year plus later than most rookies will prevent him from snagging those records, another thing too is Brees has been a numbers QB from the get go and even though he was a back up for San Diego for a few years his numbers climbed dramatically once he got with the Saints, Brady’s first 7 or 8 years in the league he was only a 20td 3500 yard QB
Brady threw a TD pass last night to his 68th different receiver
He has spoiled us
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Here is another incredible stat for Brady: he just won his 14th game in Buffalo pushing his career record at New Era Stadium in Buffalo to 14-2. Since 2000 no Bills starting QB has 14 career wins playing at home. that is pretty amazing.
We might actually find out what Brady at 65 looks like. He might play that long
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I remember when I was annoyed with Pats fans and all the hype on Brady. But after all these years and looking at his stats you just have to give him his due. Which is the GOAT. Weather you like him or the Pats.....it is what it is.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The true test of time will come after this season, he will regress eventually. I like their chances at a strong run again this playoff season, the defense is coming together it seems although the Bills are not a formidable opponent but adjustments have been made in positive fashion
Comments
It's like asking who made the best car with a rumble seat , means nothing to 99.99% of the people upright and breathing.
Yup but Brady's won-loss record is at .500 so the trolls have to enjoy it while they can. These type of weeks haven't happened often over the past 17 years.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
erik- You and pats fans never give the defense credit for helping win the Super Bowls, so why should
the defense get the blame for the two losses this year.
I never heard one Pats fan say that the DB that made that end of game interception against Seattle
should have gotten MVP over Brady, but every non pat fan knew it was obvious he should have.
He also knocked down a pass that same drive on a great diving play. He played a great game. I don't even remember his
name, but he was MVP of that Super Bowl.
So if Brady is going to get all the credit even when he doesn't deserve it, then yes, THE TWO LOSSES
THE PATS HAVE THIS YEAR ARE ALL BRADY'S FAULT.
Darin by your logic let's compare the amount of wins between Brady and everyone else then.....Brady wins that argument period, he has .772%
Darin,for one you have never seen me not give credit to any NE defense that helped win a SB. Whatever you heard/might have heard from these other Pats fans go take that up with them. Those are their comments not mine.
As for Malcolm Butler not getting MVP,i would have been absolutely fine if he got it. Or Vinatieri in the Rams or Panthers SBs. Or even White last season. After my Jordan Fleer Rc & my two Brady Topps SB MVP FB/AU's,these 3 autos are the favorite cards in my entire collection. If you meant to use the Butler argument against me,you found the wrong guy to point this out to.
I also think its hilarious that you think the defense,which has been all-time top 3 worst in NFL history after 4 games,is somehow Brady's fault. You even hinting this shows you know nothing about football and are here solely to rip Brady.
Keep trolling along buddy.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Brady has done marvelous things. He is certainly at the top of the list when considering the greatest of all time. But he is not quite an Otto Graham.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Okay, I don't know what trolling actually is, but I'll do my best.
I don't have any more posts than you or a lot of others on this thread.
And I made my point anyway. Of course I don't think Brady is solely responsible for
NE's losses this year, just as he is not solely responsible for his teams' wins.
You posting those three football cards of someone other than Brady means you actually get it.
Perkdog, c'mon that's too easy. You realize you're saying Brady has only won roughly 3/4's of one game, right?
You should have said let's compare winning percentages.
I'm done anyway. A pat fan has actually acknowledged there are other players on the team besides Brady,
and he realizes they contribute to the teams victorys'. He may me the first of his kind.
Darin, my bad on that I certainly meant winning percentage I just didn't word it properly. Btw you sound absolutely ridiculous blabbing about pats fans not acknowledging other players and I will tell you why...The OP says Brady looks 65, HE is being argued against being the best against Joe Cool and Otto Graham so ofcourse we are going to argue and promote Brady. It goes without saying that other things come in to play when winning football games, in NE Adam Vinatieri was probably just as much loved as Brady was early on as well as Bruschi, Ty Law, Wilfork, Harrison and now Gronk. At the end of the day whether it's right or wrong the QB gets the credit and blame for wins and losses.
Darin, the google definition of trolling is: "make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them." If someone wants to tell me they think that Montana,Graham,Bradshaw,Manning or whoever are a better QB than Brady I can absolutely respect that opinion. I would just respect it more if hadn't been made just after Brady loses a week 4 game in October like that game was the deciding factor in this debate. People who troll the Patriots & their fans usually have to wait till they lose,which doesn't happen often. Neither does starting 2-2 while coming close to starting 0-3 in Foxboro. Between your timing and blaming Brady for the losses,when any NFL fan can see how atrocious their defense has been,made it look like you were trolling.
If these weren't your intentions,my apologies.
perkdog pretty much covered it from a Pats fan view but i just think you can't just assume fans won't give credit to other players,only Brady,just because these players aren't mentioned by name. As a Pats fan it was hard seeing many great Patriots players either not given a contract extension,get traded or just outright released. Lawyer Milloy,Deion Branch,David Givens,Ty Law,Adam Vinatieri,Mike Vrabel,Richard Seymour,Wes Welker,Logan Mankins,Vince Wilfork,Chandler Jones,Jamie Collins to whoever is next. Believe me when i say real Pats fans know how much all of the other players not named Tom Brady have meant to their success over the years. Many can describe in detail each players most memorable postseason/big game moments off the top of their head.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I'll just say this - Montana was great, Brady is great.
I would love to see them play against each other in a SB when both were in their prime.
I think both Montana and Brady owe much of their success to Bill Walsh and the offensive scheme he developed, the West Coast offense that there's no need to explain. Walsh developed it to suit his personnel and Montana with Jerry Rice were the perfect players to execute it. many others have tried with subtle changes and limited success, but I don't think anyone has done what Belichick and Brady have achieved with a rotation of good receivers. the two QB's used different styles to gain the same result, Montana could sprint out to the sideline and Brady has the Marino-esque quick release.
Football is a strange game. both of those QB's have really padded their numbers more as a result of the scheme and brilliant coaching than anything else. now don't get your boxers in a bunch, they are still great, but the scheme they play in really helps. how many times has each thrown a five-yard pass that resulted in a 30-40 yard gain?? it's the same thing with all the great running backs --- everyone overlooks the block at the line of scrimmage, they only see the 40 yd. Touchdown in the stats.
Comparing Graham to Brady is silly for the reasons stated by Perkdog. Graham was good, but today's players today are SO much better.
I agree and i honestly think that with no Montana in San Francisco we don't see this same Tom Brady every week in the NFL. Anyone that has closely followed Brady's career knows his family were 49ers season ticket holders and that Joe was his hero growing up from a young age to the point he mimicked his game after Montana's. I'm just grateful Brady ended up on the team i root. Its been one hell of a ride as a Pats fan getting to see Tom play every week.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Nevermind.
Dave
LOL
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Brady just chugging along, without Edelman and not missing a beat. I may be way off but both me and my buddy are actually starting to believe that deep down he sorta gets mad when his team scores outside of him throwing a TD pass. Brady is secretly a stat hungry QB, he wants every record to himself that is what is motivating him to keep playing at a high level. I truly am starting to believe they could win another Super Bowl this year, Houston losing Watson it now doesn’t seem like anyone else in the AFC is a real threat.
I think he wants that 6th SB ring more than anything and if he gets it he'll want to keep playing for the next one. He might end up with some of the major passing records but Brees is a year younger and still going strong too so who knows what will happen.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Bree’s by all accounts should get all the major passing records with yards and TD’s, Brady missing a full year from injury and starting almost a year plus later than most rookies will prevent him from snagging those records, another thing too is Brees has been a numbers QB from the get go and even though he was a back up for San Diego for a few years his numbers climbed dramatically once he got with the Saints, Brady’s first 7 or 8 years in the league he was only a 20td 3500 yard QB
Brady threw a TD pass last night to his 68th different receiver
He has spoiled us
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Here is another incredible stat for Brady: he just won his 14th game in Buffalo pushing his career record at New Era Stadium in Buffalo to 14-2. Since 2000 no Bills starting QB has 14 career wins playing at home. that is pretty amazing.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
We might actually find out what Brady at 65 looks like. He might play that long
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I remember when I was annoyed with Pats fans and all the hype on Brady. But after all these years and looking at his stats you just have to give him his due. Which is the GOAT. Weather you like him or the Pats.....it is what it is.
Welcome back Jon
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The true test of time will come after this season, he will regress eventually. I like their chances at a strong run again this playoff season, the defense is coming together it seems although the Bills are not a formidable opponent but adjustments have been made in positive fashion
Thanks Mark.....good to be back.