I believe PCGS has begun to respect CAC stickers, especially gold ones
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS
Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
My mint state Ms 65+ 1856 Flying eagle cent with a GOLD CAC sticker was regarded as a PCGS MS 66
At the Denver ANA this week. This was an upgrade of more than $ 50,000
I believe this is a good thing for our hobby. What do you think ?
Stewart
5
Comments
Same coin, different grade (SCDG), unlike SSDD.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
So are they tightening up, loosening up or is it simply that different graders rarely see things the same way every time?
PCGS has been grading very tight lately.Just ask the other dealers..My feeling is they are now
Noticing stickers on coins
Depends. If only big name dealers and so-called "advanced" collectors are able to get this kind of upgrade on a regular basis, I'd say it's bad for the hobby. It hearkens me back to several years ago...
I had a semi-key date in a different series in an PC64 holder and it was without question under-graded. I was convinced that it should rightfully be in a 65 holder. Several dealers I showed the coin to agreed. I played the crack-out game three times before finally giving up. It consistently came back 64. I ended up selling the coin to a well-known dealer for about 80% of 65 money. I was marginally satisfied, that is until a couple of months later when I saw the exact same coin listed in a Heritage auction in a 66 holder. I was livid. The coin ended up selling for $12K more than I sold it for.
I'm still ticked-off about it to this day. So tell me... was THAT good for the hobby, or just that particular dealer?
If the Gold CAC upgrades are applied consistently with no appearance of favoritism, then I'd say it's good. However, if it follows my personal experience with how upgrades are handled...
Fantastic upgrade
I hope you are right. I have a 1796 NS in 61 with a gold sticker. An upgrade would be worth over 300k theoretically. I doubt it will happen and believe the market prices on condition census regardless of the holder and other qualifiers. Hope I am wrong!
With JA's gold sticker will CAC not buy the coin at the bid for the higher grade? So practically does the technical upgrade matter to realize the bid for a 62?
Latin American Collection
Great question. I don't know but I bet not. How can I find out? Just call him?
Yep or send an email
Latin American Collection
EarlyAurum - yes you can offer the coin the JA. I am sure you will be pleased.
I felt my Flying eagle was a 66 for more than 10 years . I sent the coin
for reconsideration and finally... after a gold CAC sticker. Don't forget you have to pay 1% of the new value when it does upgrade.
I think it is a VERY GOOD THING for you.
JA is only obligated to pay what he considers a fair MS62 bid for the coin...assuming he has a posted buy for it at that particular time. If the market becomes very weak (think fall of 1990 or 1991 or even 1981) the new buy price for a MS62 coin could be the current MS61 price. What he pays should be irrelevant to any particular pricing guide. Price guides can easily be manipulated for low pop coins....I've seen that done before....used against me in particular....lol.
Sooooo, Stewart: did you pay 1% when it plussed and then another 1% when it upgraded???
As there are maybe a few more than a handful of true unc 96NS, every single one is a one-off, I've got to believe that JA would remember that coin and be happy to price it with the understanding that you are "shopping offers".
If he buys it, tell him he has an instant sale to me at 4.5% over his cost. Whatever it is.
Seriously.
TDN, in fairness to Stewart, you knew your coin wouldn't work when you bought it.
Ever think about a down-grade?
Thanks for the suggestion but I want to keep the coin. Just entertaining the thought of an upgrade and hopefully more money down the road. It's a very nice coin but not as nice as the recent PC62 in the Pogue sale. That one went for >800k!
John has a posted bid for an ms61 no stars at $250,000. His posted bid for ms62 is $350,000
The gold sticker means that the least john would offer you for that coin is $350,000.
Stewart: Im sure stickers help make the decision for the grader.
What is SSDD?
The last time I tried that notion, every NGC choice/gem stickered seated coin I sent to PCGS....failed to cross. Maybe it's different today.
Same sh_t different day.
Looks like grade inflation to me
What happens if cac says a coin is over-graded or should not be straight graded and the grading service(s) disagrees? I had that happen with a PCGS coin. PCGS reluctantly agreed and sent it back in a problem holder with compensation. Later the coin graded at the same MS level by NGC. So graders and finalizers at both services thought the coin was market acceptable but cac did not. They have a potential for political controversy.
So there are no standards; just opinions. If there were standards, the coin should be seen the same way by ALL knowledgeable/professional graders. Market acceptable is not a standard.
Both Stacks and Heritage send their consigned coins to CAC on a Regular basis .
And we know the Legend auctions submits almost everything to CAC before auction.
All I'm saying is PCGS has respect for CAC more now than ever before
Bruce - Why do you ask me aquestion when you know the answer ?
Stewart:
That is a great upgrade - congrats!
I think it was worth more with the CAC Gold. (At least if you ever sold it) Many bidders view a Gold CAC as under-graded by 1 to 2 grades. I can promise you someone would bid it as a 66+ with that sticker.
Anyway, nice coin man!
PS, tight grading lately is an understatement!
Perhaps a better point is that JA is and would be thrilled to have a conversation with anyone who owns such a coin. The $$$,$$$ can be a start, but the fun begins afterwards. He's sort of a weenie that way.
Just checking on what the current rules of the game are...
Apparently 2% is the going rate
Worthless thread w/o a picture - post the coin!
Nice upgrade, Stewart. I went 0 for 6 on upgrades, but you might be right in that PCGS graders finally gave your coin the +1/2 point due to CAC Gold bean. How many times did you have to submit this coin for regrading to get the 66? And how long has it had the gold bean?
Nice to meet you at the ANA.
OINK
Once
The picture of the coin is on coin facts
Braggadocious. We can't come anywhere near that level of play and you know it.
Free Trial
Respect? I doubt it.
Agreeing to bump their own grade a bit? Obviously.
Getting you to pay for their $500 dinner? Priceless!
JK congratulations on the upgrade.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Wolf359- Braggadociouos ? Not at all. Why would I ? I am just saying that it is a good hint to send your coins to CAC ,even if you are not selling them. JA has a lot of respect in the
Numismatic community. He's not perfect but he does a great service.
I believe almost anyone who hones their grading skills and understands the Set Registry craze
Can make a big hit or improve their collection considerably.
So now can it go back to CAC for a green bean? Seriously. I'm not being smarty jones.
The bottom line is the coin deserved to be in a MS66 holder.
It just might!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Of course I will send it back for green bean and it is guaranteed
WNAP
(we need a photo)
And the question remains : " What took so long ? "
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
@tradedollarnut
What does SSDD mean?
Stuart, congrats! Are you implying that the graders see the sticker? We've been told point blank by our hosts that the graders do not see/know the holder or the current grade.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
I honestly believe PCGS could care less whether it has a gold sticker, green bean, or a "do not disturb" sign on the coin. They are trying to grade the coin...period. I sent a coin in raw 2 weeks ago that was graded MS 64 with a gold CAC sticker and it graded MS 67. This coin was first graded circa 1991-92 by our hosts. I still couldn't believe it received a consensus 64 grade in ANY "grading environment" in the last 30 years. Sometimes we get the grade wrong and sometimes they do...
Well I sent the coin in alone under rareties
Valued over $ 100,000 along with at least 10 other submissions. $ 250 plus 1%
Within 24 hours the coin was graded,
Photographed and on coin facts before I was notified..I bought this coin more than 20 years ago (raw) and graded it
66 . A mint state 1856 Flying Eagle cent
Is difficult to get graded at any grade.
Personally speaking I do think they saw the gold sticker because it was sent in
under "reconsideration".
Same stuff different denomination.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The insert is covered up in that case, no?
Of course not. How can they determine if it should go up if they don't know where it is starting from? They look at the labels and that is 100% verified.
That was pretty common back in the rattler days. Numerous coins with superb surfaces and eye appeal were relegated to MS64/PF64 due a single mark or hairline in the wrong place on the coin. Marks ruled the game back then at the 65 or higher. Today, eye appeal rules and a stray mark might only keep a type coin from a 68 grade. Can't say they graded "wrong" back then....just differently.